Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of 'Russian Black Terriers.' I met one today at our local feed shop when I went to pick up a new lead & food for Nando (Came out £40 worse off.. not including his food! woops..)

It was one of the most beautiful dogs I have ever seen! I won't be getting another dog for a good few years... Nando is enough for me at the moment, however I have a few questions about them and wondered if anyone with more experience could tell me about them?

Are they a 'true' terrier? Obviously they are a lot larger than your standard terrier but do they have a terrier like behavioural set? We have had terriers in the past, and now we have a Shepherd I could never go back to a 'true' terrier type- I never truly appreciated how much hard work they were until I've had a different pup to compare to!

Also.. are they low in numbers compared to other breeds? I have never come across one before. Their coat looks like it takes a lot of hard work- is this true?

I have fallen in love with this breed and I'm now picturing myself with a Black Russian Terrier friend for Nando! (I think my parents would throw me out if I bought another pup home!)

Josh

Well they are derived from Schnauzer, Airdale and the Rottie so although I have little experience I would have thought they would be more of a guard dog than a terrier and indeed I think that is what they were developed for. Can say that those I have met are determined and self-willed but not really terrier like, I understand they are supposed to be easy to train.

They are bloomin BIG!!

Indeed they are, not really met one face to face their owner seem to keep them on short leads when at shows so I have not had a chance to interact.

Also they were bred by the Russian Army for 'work' which would have been security work.  So I imagine not a breed for the inexperienced.  Yes the coat does take a lot of work.

The one we met was in the boot of a car, just leaving the feed shop as we were arriving. We always manage to bump into some lovely dogs and the feed shop tends to attract the more sensible owners as it is a bit out-of-the-way so it is a good socialisation place for Nando! (Or Mando as my niece has been calling him!)

When the owner opened up the boot he sat really well and didn't make any attempt to get out until the owner told him so. He was very pleasant to meet and almost gentle in his nature but didn't go all soppy over the attention like some dogs do. Was just wondering if he was typical of the breed. His coat was fantastic, it was like cuddling a baby bear!

I've spoken to someone who had one at the vets, he was a lovely boy, but, she had taken him on from a breeder who no longer required him, supposedly he had been put to stud a lot as at the time there were very few in the country, and he had horrendous HD, so if the story's true it would be prudent to check on the health a few generations back, which you should do anyway.
Must say I do admire them myself, they were developed by the Russian police or military I think.

Wiki says about 20 breeds went into the mix. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Russian_Terrier
Another site with History: http://www.russianguard.com/brthistory.htm
UK club website: http://www.rbtclub.co.uk/

They are pretty big and I'm sure it's not all coat. I understand they are not a dog for the novice owner and on local radio a pensioner had his toy breed killed by one in a park on the south coast.

I remember a friend from Belarus talking about them one day 20 odd years ago, she said that they are (were) shown by two people - the dog strung between the two to keep others safe. It's a not a breed I would like to become too popular.

When we have our class at Crufts for our CEDs,the BRT has shared the same ring.They are magnificent (large) dogs.The name seems to confuse some people - why terrier in working group.Butn as pointed out they wer bred for a working purpose.They have always been well behaved.

As others have said definitely not a breed for the first timer and wouldn't say they are "terriers".  Also as someone else has mentioned I think HD is a problem in the breed so ensure that all family are tested, I think the BM is quite high.

>she said that they are (were) shown by two people - the dog strung between the two to keep others safe.

That's true - they had a handler on each side with the leads tight, so that the dog couldn't reach either of them; and the judge examined the dogs from a distance!

Hopefully breeding of them here won't encourage the sort of temperament described, other wise they could end up another victim of ned culture.

I've met a Russian Black before, a working police dog with our local force.

The police dog handler brought this dog and a couple of others to do some demonstrations at our dog training class.

My impression was that it was a lovely dog, very big and stocky too, extremely aloof with people (although that may have been the 'work' switch being on). The police officer said that they are very trainable, but not a dog for the novice, or faint hearted, as they need a lot of socialisation & training, due to a strong guarding tendency.

He likened them to the Malinois in terms of ideal owner type, i.e. someone who is prepared to give the dog a 'job' to do, whether working, agility, obedience work etc, they're not ideal as 'just' a pet in his eyes.

They are verrrrry lovely & bear like though :-)

Claire

>I've met a Russian Black before, a working police dog with our local force.

Can I ask what force this was? The guidelines set up currently as i'm told by a handler don't include the RBT.

Some more Russian Black Terrier information and pictures.

I spoke to a lady who was showing one at the Scottish Kennel Club show last month, she has a beautiful young bitch who is huge ( but dogs are bigger eek!) The coat is hard work apparently, but she says they don't smell doggy when wet which is an advantage.  There were only a few at the show, the bitch we saw was beautifully behaved, very friendly and totally at ease 'talking' to strangers while she was groomed, her owner was lovely and told us loads about the breed as we had never come across them before.

I know someone who has 4, she breeds them, her dogs are fabulous.........but HUGE!!!!!!!!    they can be quiet aloof with strangers,and can have a strong guarding instinct , so socialization is a must for  these dogs.

From what I have heard, temperament was a problem in the early days, not sure if  that's gotten on top of now, along with health is supposedly a big problem in the breeds, but then these things go pear shaped  in many breeds when they become to popular to quickly.

On the whole they are lovely dogs,  my friends are imposing and cuddly at the same time, that's if they decide to grace you with a bit attention LOL!!

I think if you are interested in the breed do your research thoroughly, go and see some at shows and talk to as many people as you can.

I've seen a few at shows and they seem friendly enough, big, imposing and hairy though! Gorgeous dogs, but as others have said I suspect not for the first time owner!

> experience of 'Russian Black Terriers.'

I used to see a RBT out for a walk. Its owner also had a toddler in a buggy. She had it on a headcollar and it was always immaculately behaved. It would walk calmly alongside the buggy and didn't react at all to other dogs in the street. I chatted with the owner occasionally and I know she had taken it to obedience classes. She said hers was very trainable. I must say I thought it looked magnificent.

> Also.. are they low in numbers compared to other breeds?

I know she had to wait for quite a while before getting hers as I don't think there are that many litters born. Just looked that up in the most recent BRS and there were only 3 litters last quarter and just 2 the previous quarter.

suejaw, it would have been either Northamptonshire or Warwickshire (sorry I'm a bit vague, as it was quite a while ago, and we're right on the border of the 2 counties!)

I made the assumption he was a working police dog as the handler was explaining he was trained in protection/guarding work and also (I'm not sure of the term) apprehending people where the dog grabs & holds the arm.

HTH

Claire

Hi Claire,

I did double check with a colleague who is a dog handler after I posted this and he confirmed that RBT have not, never have been or even likely to be on the list to be a Police dog of any kind..

Hope this clears it up.
The handler may of trained it up for as a personal dog or it maybe a working dog in another capacity.

I know they are used in the Military in many countries.

Thank you for all the replies guys- As I thought it seems they require a lot of work. Their temperament does sound like a 'souped-up' GSD almost! I will see how Nando gets on in a year or two before I even begin to think about another dog, but I think the Russian Black Terriers have made a lasting impression on me....

I have Giant Schnauzers and after loosing my male last september I  seriously considered a Russian Black, but in the end I was put off by the small genepool in Britain.
Also after having a Giant with a unstrippable fluffy coat, I was slightly put off by the coats.
I now have a gorgeous 13 week old male puppy [and 2 girls] and I'm very happy I stuck with the Giants.
My husband still fancies a RBT, so maybe one day when he does all the grooming...

Warwickshire Police Force did indeed have a RBT;  he went by the name of Mig and was trained by John Ward.  It was a one-off experiment, which to my knowledge was not repeated.  He was trained as a take-out dog; this was about ten years ago.  If you google John Ward/Mig/Warks Police you can find a number of articles and indeed pictures.  First one I came across is here: http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20010826&slug=terrier26

>Warwickshire Police Force did indeed have a RBT;  he went by the name of Mig and was trained by John Ward.<

That's the guy who did the demo & talk at our training class - great bloke, really thorough in the way he explained everything to us, and a fab sense of humour too (well, he had to to put up with us lot!!) He probably came in to see us about 3-4 years ago??

Claire