Hello to those who know me on here hope your all well and your furkids are doing great, Im having some problems with My Rottie, (5yr old Rottweiler intact male) Now it was a problem that my younger Bully (3year old English bull terrier)he was a lil devil trying to find his place in the pack i feel and used to start trouble and wanted to be boss but he seems to have found his place now its took alot of hard work and training to get my Bully to this point and he is no longer bothered by jealousy like he once was been perfectly happy and no issues, then out of no where , My Big BEAR BABY ROTTIE (ALWAYS BEEN A DIAMOND!) HAS NOW GONE TO ATTACK MY BULLY ON THE LAST 2 WALKS,,,, TO THE POINT I HAD TO WAVE THE LEASH AT HIM VERY HARD TODAY TO MAKE HIM STAY BACK FROM MY BULL WHOS ON A LEAD WITH ME, MY BULLY IS NEAR CHOCKING TO RETALIATE AT MY ROTTIE BUT IM LIKE,,, NOOOOO NOOOO,,, AND LEAVE LEAVE AT MY ROTTIE,. PLZZZZ HELP ME JUST WHEN I THOUGHT ALL WAS WELL SEEMS ITS THE BIG BEAR I THOUGHT WAS THE GEM IS NOW ACTING LIKE THE AGGRESSOR WITH A VENGEANCE AND I ADMIT I FEEL IM IN A DANGEROUS SITUATION HERE WITH THEM ALL LIVING TOGETHER NOW! FEELING A BIT LOST,,,,,, ALL THIS TIME I THOUGHT BULLY WAS JUS THAT BUT SEEMS MY ROTTIE IS NOW TAKING HIS PLACE  AND IT IS NOT HIS NORM BEHAVIOUR . ID CASTRATE BOTH IN A MINUTE, IF I THOUGH IT WOULD REALLY HELP, CANT THINK ABOUT GIVING ANY OF THEM UP, DONT WANT A BLOOD Bath on my hands either, PLZ ANY IDEA OR HELP, THANKS X

Is this only happening on walks or is this continuing at home too? If only on walks i'd be inclined to walk them apart for the time being.
One thing though, get both of the dogs vet checked..Get a behaviourist in too!!!

Just thinking out loud here..
Is the Bully eyeballing him at all on the walks? Also being on a lead he is that much closer to you as well, whats he like if you let him off lead?
Have you thought about Suprelorin at all? Its an implant, bit like chemical castration.

You have males of two breeds that are pretty dominant, and often in these breeds you simply can't keep two males together, especially in the bull breeds.

At 3 and 5 years old they have reached 'Social Maturity',and one or both are not willing to tolerate a challenger.

What other dogs do you have as you say pack, are any entire bitches, as this can spark off rivalry.

Also if your Rottie was willing to let things go with just you waving your lead at him, he was not really intent on beating up the bully.

Often it is not a good idea to have one dog on, and one dog off lead as the off lead dog can get into running back and goading the on-lead, and the on-lead feeling defencive/frustrated.

yes, I agree with that. I also wondered if there is a bitch in heat locally? I'd imagine there is a fair chance that is the case, and that would really get the Rottie up on his toes and in a very competitive frame of mind. Is your Bully intact too. Anyhow, walking separately for now and chemical c are both worth trying. Especially the latter, you don't want to be dealing with this twice a year!

Hi All thanks for the reply's, i also have ETB Female 5 yrs old but she was spaded 2 yrs ago now, all 3 dogs where with me all off a lead when playing in our adventure it was as we went to the gate to leave and i bent down to put my bull boy on his lead had just got it on him when my rottie jumped on his back almost as if to hump him, but their was growls from my rottie and he went to bite him on back of bulls neck,   my rottie just seemed to want to keep coming at my bully, , could well be their is a bitch in season somewhere ,
bully really never done anything to provoke the rottie he wernt even facing him, i no that if i hadnt got my bull on the lead at that point he would have gone back at my rottie and a fight would have broken out,
at home they all sleep in their own beds in our passage we have had 2 fights brake out in the past over bones and food issues, but was both times my bully starting , my rottie normally a very layed back lad and dont fuss about anything, this is why im surprised he did this on that day,

in doors tho we have had no issues in over a year till this, we have started separate walks and the big C , we are really thinking about it now for both boys, they have both been ok since,   

sorry for the double posts it kept saying error, now i see it did post and wont let my delete

Also if your Rottie was willing to let things go with just you waving your lead at him, he was not really intent on beating up the bully. i no what your saying , i do kind of think that my rottie was goading my bull as i put the lead on, he did seem pretty pleased with himself, he circled us as i opening the gate almost like he was waiting for a chance to get to my bull, my bully was then no way happy at all, because of course he was on his lead, but if i had missed the link and not gotten it on in time as rottie jumped his back, then bully would have most def gone to fight my rottie, as he gets very agrevewd at the slightest  thing, even on vets visits if a dog barks at him in the vets he will go nuts barking and growling like he is some wild nutty dog, when he infact is very social and friendy when meeting dogs on walks, he just dont seem to like being told off by other dogs :-(

> he just dont seem to like being told off by other dogs :-(

That is pretty typical, and why your Rott feels the need to remind him of his place  as the Bully has now reached social maturity.

If your bully would accept his lower status then all would be fine, but they are a Dog dominant breed, bullies more so than Rotts.

Whatever you do do not castrate them both as then the social gap between them would stay the same.  It might be worth castrating the bully to try to increase the social gap between them, and make him less male so that the Rottie MAY not feel he is a challenge to his authority.

The implant might be an option, but unfortunately initially it raises the testosterone levels for a few weeks which might make thigns worse before they got better.

It may still not work though.  I would never leave these two unsupervised from now on.  When you go out put one either side of a tall dog/Baby gate, so they still have each others company, but aren't in a position to get into a fight.  As you quite rightly fear, if a fight escalated beyond a scrap one or other could be dead on your return.

The humping, and getting above the other dogs is part of dominant posturing. 

Thanks so much Brainless  If your bully would accept his lower status then all would be fine, but they are a Dog dominant breed, bullies more so than Rotts. I so hear this, totally agree my Bully has been just that at times but i have felt he was excepting that lower status till this happened,

as for the castration this was what i was wondering about, (would they be the same if i had both done), and you have answered that for me thanks, and yes my bull would be my first choice if i do get this done,  i do understand that even if i got my Bull done it may change nothing, i just would hope it wouldn't make things worse, I have a friend with a staff that used to play with my rott but once he reached a year old all he wanted to do was attack my boy, she had her boy done and it has made no difference at all, only thing that changed is now her boy will also go to attack female dogs as well as males she honestly feels it made her boy worse  and this worrys me,

its very rare for my dogs to be in the house alone together someones almost always here and i will leave Rott in kitchen if i have to go out and leave them from now on,

Hi suejaw to answer your question, Is the Bully eyeballing him at all on the walks? Also being on a lead he is that much closer to you as well, whats he like if you let him off lead?
i wouldnt say my bully eyeballs him, Bully only comes off lead in an enclosed space fenced in as he still a nightmare on recall, he seriously would go and run to play with the traffic if allowed to walk freely, but in general when we go adventure, or the fenced in grass area he is fine he runs around like bambi, with Rottie in hot persuit they play together ok, but I can at times see my rott gets over excited and can slam into bullys hard which makes the bull wary to run, so i do limit how much they play i will watch them carefull and call them back to calm down when i see things maybe going to far, or sometimes i play a game with my rott to give the bulls a chance to play together , funny how my bulls recall is very good when he no's he cant get out of the enclosure, but i could not trust him off lead where access to any road is,
when i take my 2 bulls out together they play like mad jumping over eachother and darting around like the typical bully and their is no problems,
think i will stick to separate walks for a while,

> funny how my bulls recall is very good when he no's he cant get out of the enclosure, but i could not trust him off lead where access to any road is,
>

Oh that is so familiar, my Jozi (now nearly 12) is an angel on a long line, Flexi or in an enclosed space (Tennis courts, enclosed five a side football pitch).  she became frar worse with teh selective hearing after she was spayed at 7, as she raids bins.

Chelzeagirl, all the research I read about neutering rotts stated that there was a much higher rate of bone cancer in neutered rotts.  Some said that the risk lessens after middle age but it is worth bearing in mind.  I don't know if there are any breed specific neutering risk in bullies.