My ten month borzoi pup,had a fractured femur before i bought him when he was five months old,although i did not know this.

I got it put right by a specialist orthopaedic vet,naturally he was in quite a bit of pain but he was on painkillers and eventually his pain subsided, but he has always walked very peculiar on that leg.

I mentioned it to both my own vet and the referral vet and they both said that as the leg strengthens he should be fine.

A few weeks ago he started crying in pain each time he tries to lie down and then when he tries to get up. Further xrays were taken and everything is has it should be,the bones have fused apparently,so the only explanation my own vet could think of is that the pin inside the bone is nipping on the muscle,so he decided to open him up again and try and get the pin out,but it was not successful he tried for two hours to remove the pin,but he could not get it out.

So my poor dog has gone through further surgery and nothing has been achieved, a third set of xrays has been sent to the orthopaedic vet,and i am now waiting to hear from him.

The awful thing is my dog is walking even worse now, and it,s pitiful to hear him crying.

I would appreciate if anyone has any knowledge of this kind of thing,and does anyone know of any tablets or medication that i could get to maybe help the healing?

Firstly I would wait and see what the ortho guy says.Your own vet could advise on suitable painkillers for borzois . I would  rest him as much as poss. . only pees and poos in the garden . Until you have the all clear then short controlled walks on a lead .No jumping , no steps , no stairs.All being well I would try and find a hydrotherapy pool near you .I have had 8 borzois and on occasion when they have been lying down , they scream when they move..they do come over as being a bit wimpy. I use to rub the offending muscle for a while and they recovered. There was someone else's at a show one year who screamed the place down...spine chilling , but he had got himself in an awkward position...and when he tried to stand it hurt ... like cramps or pins and needles I imagine.

I don't have any experience of broken legs or pins nipping, hopefully someone else will have though. I did want to reply though in agreement with the other poster - Borzois are terrible wimps, they will often squeal for no reason at all and you'd better cover your ears when they really are in pain. I couldn't count the amount of times I rushed a borzoi to the vets thinking it seriously, life threateningly ill for it to burp or stretch and be quite happy again :-)

That said the leg problem does sound awful and of course between 5 and 10 months borzois grow so quickly that I would hate a youngster to break it's leg like that. The pup will need to use the leg to build the muscles up, but being a borzoi he wont want to use it at all in case it's sore!

Good luck, you have my sympathies.

I have lots of experience with broken bones and seen too many dogs with these kind of injuries. I would definitely suggest swimming. Try and negotiate a price by telling the pool near you that you intend to do this as a long term thing. Keep it going for at least 8 weeks on a twice a week basis. Then you may wish to reduce it to once a week. You will know when its time to reduce even further.

Ask the hydrotherapy centre how long the first session is. If its only 1 to 2 minutes - don't accept this. The best centres will do 1 minute - rest - 1 minute - rest and keep this going for at least 20 to 30 minutes. And every time he comes back, he should be increasing this a bit more. You will find that your dog will be tired that evening and the next day however, hell be fine on the third day. On the fourth day, its back to swimming. Put down 'dog swimming' on google and see what the different website that show up offer.

Another thing that helps is a new full support harness from a company called Dogaids. They are a UK based company and this will give your dog immediate relief. Good luck.

I am always amazed at just how many people can come up with help and advice.

I had no experience or knowledge to offer the OP, but it's great that we, as CD members, have a wealth of information that we freely give.

We can understand why CD is so popular for people looking for help.

I know I haven't helped the OP but this thread has reminded me why CD information exchange is the tops.

:-)

> Ask the hydrotherapy centre how long the first session is. If its only 1 to 2 minutes - don't accept this. The best centres will do 1 minute - rest - 1 minute - rest and keep this going for at least 20 to 30 minutes.

Swimming is one of the best forms of exercise, but I minute exercise, 1 of rest over a 20 - 30 minute period for a convalescing dog after surgery or injury, from experience is far too much. I minute of swimming I've always been told equals around one mile of walking, so expecting a dog to mange this for that period is optimistic if not foolhardy. A dog needs to be monitored and assessed at every rest period before going back for another 1 minute of exercise.

My experience (but different from yours to a degree) was my pup at 13 weeks old breaking a back leg. It was a green stick fracture and so 'healed' quickly. However, until she was about 10 months old she had no muscle, I swam her at hydrotherapy, I had acupunture to stimulate nerves and ended up going to a pyshio. She had learned to 'walk' on three legs and was not fully weight bearing but without us actually knowing (this bitch has Crufts placing in MP and P many times over!!!. ln the end the pyshio 'rented' me a wobble board which meant that she HAD to weight bear. I know my experience is different in terms of the healing process but I am trying to demonstrate that when all is healed okay there are several options available. With the hydrotherapy she taught herself to pull with her front end but not use her back end to kick and no amount of hydrotherapy made her use her back leg properly and build the muscle up and give her confidence to use the leg. This sounds really weird to explain it like this as she was basically 'dotting' her foot down and looked okay on the move. It was only when you felt no muscle did you realise what was going on. Your pup will have to gain his confidence to use the leg at some time as the injury has happened at such a young age.

> With the hydrotherapy she taught herself to pull with her front end but not use her back end to kick and no amount of hydrotherapy made her use her back leg properly and build the muscle up

Snap! My lad had been going swimming twice a week for the last 5 months and he built up his front but not his back end so I've switched to a treadmill and slowly I am beginning to feel some muscle growth on his hindquarters.

Do you know how long the leg had been broken before you got the pup? I am shocked that a breeder passed on a pup in that state. Maybe some nerve damage was done between the time the fracture happened and it being repaired.

It must have been a nasty break as they don't normally need pinning at that age as their bones heal so fast.

Thankyou for your replies, and taken note of them. I tried to contact the ortho vet this morning but he was not available, so spoke to my own vet,who now tells me that it looks from the last xrays that the implant has slightly moved and that is possibly causing the pain, although when previous xrays were looked at nothing like that was seen,i am a bit confused with all of this now.

He is seeing him on Monday for the stitches to be removed and will obviously discuss further,but apart from giving him painkillers he has suggested Tramadol along with the Metacam,it is a difficult situation that i find myself in. On the one hand at this stage i don,t want to put him through further surgery to remove the implant,because of the first major surgery to repair the break, and then recently the second which achieved nothing,and then he pulled his stitiches out so had to go back under sedation to be stitched up again. He has not had much of a life yet all this to and froing to vets,and the pain which he has.

Also from my point of view this has and is costing me a small fortune, because although he is insured,when i took him from the breeder she gave him four weeks insurance then i renewed it, but because it was an old injury the insurance has not paid for any of the work which has been done on him nothing at all,and insurance will not pay or help towards anything relating to the break in that leg.

The breeder took the puppy back from his first family who apparently could not cope with him so handed him back, she did say to me that she noticed on collecting him from his first family that he appeared to be using the leg a little strangely,but she had no idea that it was broken,so that did not alarm me,we both thought that he perhaps had strained the leg maybe running up and down stairs.

My own vets advise at the time was to let her have him back,but as i live in Scotland and the breeder was in England that to me was not an option,i could not make that journey again. She did however give me back his purchase price,and left it up to me to decide what to do,i knew on that first night that i had him home that i would keep him.

My own feeling is although i cannot prove it is that he has had a kicking,i feel it had to have happened after
he left the breeder,because the ortho vet said although it was an old injury it did not happen at birth,but possibly weeks after?

I don,t know about hydrotherapy i live such a distance from anywhere that might remotely have something like a pool,although the veterinary hospital where he was referred have one,that is more than 150 miles away,so that would prove difficult to do that on a regular basis,i have had to make over night stays when i had to take him up there.

I also at the time of getting my pup, brought home his brother,and i hardly dare say it,he had a greenstick fracture right next to the growth plate,but that was a pure accident and happened whilst with me,and although repaired is not looking good at all just now,plus i have an older Borzoi.

I wondered if supplements like Glucosomine might help in any way,not ever had to use them before!

Where in Scotland are you? If you are near, or can get to Fife I can highly recommend John Ferguson at East Neuk From what you've written I wouldn't be happy for your vet to perform another op on this dog, as he has already performed an unsuccessful one. John is absolutely amazing in his ability to see a dog walking into the surgery and notice what other vets have missed, know what causes it and fix it. I've never been so impressed with a vet before :-)

The dog is still young so I would give him a chance of having a sound, happy life. I use glucosamine and chondroitin for my collie with arthritis with good results, it certainly wouldn't hurt to put both dogs on it to try and prevent future problems but no additive is going to cure this pup if his implant has moved and is causing him pain.

Blimey I feel for you!
On the issue of the green stick fracture, that is exactly what I had, right near the growth plate. The growth plate closed early with the trauma and she has one leg slightly shorter than the other (hence a 4:13 hip score!)
However, she is now 10 years old, goes out every day with the others, has a slightly rolling gait but enjoys life to the full. She IS now on Metacam and plenty of supplements (Glucosamine & Chondroitin, Green Lipped Mussel and Omega 3 fish oil. As I say, she was shown in Puppy and did pretty well considering her shortened leg and especially in Goldens to get so many Crufts qualifying places! So try not to worry too much on the brother, that can be managed. The wobble board for her was like a ball in the centre (underneath) and I had to put her good foot on it making her weight bear on her bad foot.
Really hope you find a solution for the returned poor boy. Imagine being treated so badly at such a young age. Some people should be horsewhipped!!!

I note  you say the breeder gave you back the purchase price ...a very decent thing to do and you have decided to keep the dog.Borzois are not the general ideal dog as a pet...when they run as pups they are Bambi personified. They get into all sorts of scrapes .Even doing the splits on  wet paving slabs or tiles. Flat dry bones or in some lines  a rounder bone  with a Rice Krispie effect is known.They do react to vaccines , and sometimes anaesthetics ..because of the shape and heart room .We always asked for Rapinovet or just a deep sedation.Muscle should build up round the pin  eventually and strength will come from that . Bone starts knitting at the outside. Wait and see what the ortho vet comes  up with and be wary of supplements. Too many can be just as damaging.He can't really  be allowed to play with his litter brother. I would try and find a sitter/friend /partner for your dogs  and very quickly make a friend with someone who lives near a hydro pool , so you can make a trip and stay over.Alternatively have a friend you trust care for him near a hydro pool. Good luck.

Oh sorry. I should point out that when i said 1 minute swim and rest. I meant a 4 to 5 minutes rest to recover. then another minute. Then another rest break of 4 to 5 minutes etc.Slowly over a period of weeks the hydrotherapist will build your dog up will longer sessions.

Overall the general opinion is swimming is the best form of exercise and this is something you should consider. I say this as a hydrotherapist.

I know that harness from dogaid.co.uk would benefit as it help support your dog by using your own body weight and you hardly feel a thing.

I may be able to suggest a few hydrotherapy centres located in Scotland. I have looked them up for you and you may want to try calling them ( i just looked them up on the internet - so please make sure you are happy with them first - they are all members of the Canine Hydrotherapy Ass. So you should be all okay and also insurance companies normally pay out only if you go to a CHA member):

ROSEBURN K9 HYDROTHERAPY CENTRE (in Cumnock) - 07872464051 01290 423809
YONDERTON CANINE CARE (in Keith) - 01542880431
HIGHLAND HYDROTHERAPY 4 (in Elgin) - 01343 559400
K9 HYDROTHERAPY LTD (In Aberdeen) - 01224782717

I understand this may be classed as an old injury and they may not want to pay out, however, the muscle wastage not only on this leg but the other leg is what you have to push with the insurance company to get them to pay up. Maybe speak to your vet as to how best to approach this and check your insurance company pays out for swimming.

Good Luck

As we're not sure where in Scotland you are can I also add

http://ayrshirecanineequinephysio.com/  as well as a hydrotherpay pool they also have a water treadmill and a doggy spa :-)

Once again thankyou for all the information,it,s appreciated, I had him at my own vets this morning,who removed his stitches from the last surgery.

He said that after the referral vet had looked at the last lot of xrays,it was clear that the implant had moved,and that must be the cause of the pain,or possibly the pin which is catching on the muscle and nipping when he moves. 

Normally so i was told implants very rarely move,and has i said to my vet it must have happened after the xrays which were taken six weeks after the operation,because at that time both vets said everything is as it should be and the healing was coming on well.

Due to the fact that my dog has been through so much in his short life, never seeming to be away from a veterinary clinic,and he has had such a lot of pain, plus also at this time i have to factor in the cost which is solely down to me,and it certainly has not been cheap,latterly i have just been working to pay my vet bill for him.

Therefore my vet understands this, and has suggested for the time being if we can keep him comfortable and pain free on painkillers this is the way to go,so he has stopped the Metacam because that was not doing anything for him,and put him back onto Previcox which worked slightly better for him,also he has put him on Tramadol.

Possibly in the months ahead i will get the implant taken out,but i just want him to have a bit of normality and freedom,and time for him if he can to enjoy his puppyhood,plus it will give me time to get my finances sorted.

I have cancelled his policy with the well known dog insurance company,because they have categorically refused to help in anyway,although i know any insurance company will turn their back on his leg, but i have now put him with another insurance,who,s premiums are thirteen pound cheaper per month,and the level of cover is much higher,with one fixed excess.

I actually live in Dumfries and Galloway,so i would not be too far away from the Hydrotherapy pools,i mentioned this to my vet this morning,and he said it was possibly a very good idea,it certainly could not hurt and would help to build muscle.

I am expecting a phone call from the orthopaedic vet some time today,to discuss further plans, but primarily to see what further can be done for my other boy who had the greenstick fracture,although his surgery went well on the face of it,his legs look terrible,and my own vet now thinks he might have the condition now what they call Ligamentous. Whatever poor soul his legs look hideous.

Will post again when further news.

Just a follow up to my last posting on my ten month old dog. Had him up to the referral vet last week,who examined him thoroughly,and took further xrays,and the news now is that he has Hip dysplasia,and quite bad,although he said the implant which was put into fix the break has pulled away from the bone,which could clearly be seen on the xray,in his opinion that was very unusual for that to happen, but he said it is not that which is causing his extreme pain.

So he gave me three options for surgery,one was a full hip replacement both sides, but he does not think that he would be a good candidate for that as he is young and it might need re doing in later years,the second one according to him is a relatively new procedure,and i cannot exactly remember the full details,there was such a lot to take in,but i think it involved some kind of bonding filler plastered into the hip socket,and the vet thinks that there is always a chance of leakage over the years into the body.

The one which he thought my dog might benefit from was the one which involves cutting the pelvis in three places and rotating the head of the femur into the socket,and i cannot remember whether that also involves steel pins inserted,apparently it is often used and most beneficial for dogs who at an early stage are showing no signs of arthritis which my dog is,nt.

He went onto say that it is a major operation and it has to be done in two stages months apart so that one hip heals and then they commence on the second,he thought it was a big ask not only for the dog, but also for myself in terms of the care and nursing which i would obviously have to give him, and he would have to have strict cage rest for at least six to seven weeks.

It was a lot to take in and an awful upset,knowing what he has gone through already in his short life.

Well rightly or wrongly at this stage i have decided that i am not going to put him through the operation,maybe in another six months or so,i just want him to have a bit of peace and free of visits and stays at a veterinary clinic for days at a time.

Having said that he is in pain,he is on Previcox and Tramadol,my own vets dosage of the Tramadol was one two times daily,but that has not touched his pain,the ortho vet said to up it to two twice daily and possibly a bit more,even at that he still cries in pain, it,s a worry and horrible to hear him screaming out,sometimes i think  is it fair to keep him going.

I have bought today Glucosamine and Chondroitin for humans, although i have ordered from a company over the internet,some vet vit tablets,don,t know if anyone has heard of them, but according to the feedback they have had very good results.

I also contacted the Hydrotherapy centre,who have been most helpful, and shortly i will be taking him up there they have recommended that he use the water treadmill.

Would anybody know how long it takes for the Glucosamine to kick in? I would just like to keep him pain free in the short term,and hopefully with the swimming build up the muscle on his broken leg and around the hips.

If anyone else has any suggestions they of course would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Flip that's really unusual and really unfortunate for the poor pup (and you). I've never heard of a borzoi with HD, or anything less than perfect hips. I've had two of mine x rayed when under GA for different things and their hips were perfect.

If you're looking for opinions, and this is simply my personal opinion then I would have him put to sleep now, tomorrow. I wouldn't put a borzoi through any major surgery, it's a long recovery period and he's a big dog and zois do not cope well with pain. He's in a lot of pain now, I don't see the point of waiting for 6 months.

The breeder must be beside themselves, I would worry that there was something else going on for him to have so many bone/joint problems and the brother with a broken leg too :-(

I'm a huge fan of glucosamine and chondroitin and often recommend it to people, but I just can't see it helping, or helping quick enough, for this boy. I'm so sorry. I would start your other boy on them though, does he get calcium supplements already?