Hi All,

How long could I reasonably expect a 12-week GSD to go through the night without needing the toilet? I thought I had Nando in a good routine. I would go to bed at around 10:30 and at first I was getting up at 2, 4, 6 to let him out, but I found he wasn't really wanting to wake up at 2 for a wee and would just go back and lie down in the garden rather than go and pee.

Eventually, I got into the routine of bed at about 11 and then found he would last until 6am which, in my opinion was pushing it and is a bit too much for a young pup but he just didn't seem to need to wake up any earlier so I was happy to let him have his own way. After a few days he started to wake the house up by barking/crying and each time I'd come downstairs he'd have toileted in his crate. This was at random times. Sometimes 3am, sometimes 4am but never later than 6am as I'd be awake with him by then. I tried to pre-emptively set my alarm so I could wake up a good 30 minutes before him needing to toilet however it was at such random times that it really was no good.

He gets his last meal about 7pm and his water is taken away at about 9 if I remember. The other problem is that we have a natural-stone patio in our garden that collects water in some areas as it is a natural stone patio. When I let him out to pee he drinks the rain water that has collected so sometimes by efforts are in vain!

So, this all boils down to my question... how long can I reasonably expect him to go without needing to pee at this age? I tried to let myself be guided by his behaviour but he seems to not really know himself, either! Tonight I have set my alarm for 4:30am, and I'm planning on letting him out to toilet and then going back to bed until 7, but we will see how long he lasts after being put back in bed! Getting up at around 6am with him every morning has killed me!

As you know, as soon as a puppy has eaten or woken up the first thing it will need is a wee. If he is waking up and telling you by barking/crying then you've left it too late to get him outside. You need to wake up before him, creep really quietly downstairs (if he hears you the excitement will be too much and he'll tiddle before you get there !), try not to put a light on where he his, don't fuss him but just quietly place him outside. Once he's performed pop him back to bed, no fuss or excitement.
I guess every dog will be different but you know how often he goes during the day without a wee so nights should be the same. Any noise, inside or out will wake him so even neighbours going to work etc will do it.
I don't know the breed, but if he's fed last at 7pm when will he eat again ?. If it's not until breakfast then I wonder if he's getting hungry and waking. Going 12 hours or more seems a long time without food for a growing dog.
And water, if he's drinking rain water when you let him out then he's probably thirsty. I always left water with my dog overnight, personally I think it's too important not to. Not allowing water in the hope he won't wee doesn't seem right to me - but apologies if that's what has been recommended to you.

>He gets his last meal about 7pm and his water is taken away at about 9 if I remember. The other problem is that we have a natural-stone patio in our garden that collects water in some areas as it is a natural stone patio. When I let him out to pee he drinks the rain water that has collected so sometimes by efforts are in vain!

If he's drinking from puddles during the night he's probably waking because he's thirsty, then once he's awake he needs to toilet. If you leave him with water (and the Animal Welfare Act requires all animals to have access to fresh water 24/7) he'll be able to have a drink before bed so won't be thirsty, and if he has a biscuit too then he won't be hungry, so will probably be able to sleep all night.

My views are very similar to Arched - how often is he being fed?  7pm is pretty early for supper - I feed my younger pups around 9.30pm, they're then let out to a wee etc and are settled down at bedtime with a biscuit.  Water is never removed from any of my dogs.

6am starts with a puppy - only to be expected I'm afraid, puppies can be very hard work, in fact having dogs is - our days start just after 5am, every day of the week, no such thing for a lie in.... but we love them and have got used to this way of life.

He doesn't drink when I wake him up during the night, only before bed. He doesn't drink it in much volume to be honest as the puddles are a few mms or so at most. I think it is more of a novelty than anything. Tonight I left him with his water until bed time and he didn't touch it. I can't leave water with him as he knocks it over and then cries because he is wet!

I will be feeding him later in the evening as to be honest hunger hadn't entered my head! As you say, 12hrs is far, far too long to expect a puppy to go without food. I feel like a terrible person now, I hadn't really thought about it being 12hrs.

Last night I got him up at 4:30 to let him toilet (He eventually peed after first laying down and looking at me as if to say 'Why are we awake at this time?') and then I woke him up at 6:45 for another toilet trip.

Tonight I left him with his water until bed time and he didn't touch it. I can't leave water with him as he knocks it over and then cries because he is wet!

He should have access to water 24/7 - either change to type of water bowl so he can't spill it or just leave with a small amount in.

All the bodies systems slow down at night so not much urine is produced but initially the bladder is tiny[walnut size in an 8 week old dachsie so I have been told by a vet] till it stretches when control of sphincters is achieved and more urine can be held therefore stretching it.

My pups sleep by my bed so as soon as they move I am up taking them out with no fuss or conversation, starts off being about 2am and gradually gets later, the light mornings I cover their crates so they don't think it is getting up time at 4am. As they get older and start to sleep through you may have times when they lapse so I will take them out,if it becomes a regular thing I try telling them to settle down and usualy they do,if not then I take them out.

I give all my dogs get a dental chew at bed time, the pups start off with an appropriate biscuit for age/size.

I had the same problem re water being tipped over so found a system similar to how rodents get water but bigger in Poundland one day, you attach any size plastic drinks bottle up to 2 litres and train the dog to use that [mine were adults and learnt very quickly and taught the pups by example] I bought 10 packs but was too generous and gave all but 2 away to friends, when one got chewed I took ages to find more but did find them on Ebay in Hong Kong, much dearer but worth it. I now don't have to worry if the water got knocked over just after I left the house or just before I returned. There is a bowl of water outside for normal drinking so the bottles are not their only access to water, 5 dachsies in a large puppy pen have access to 2x2litre botles which are freshened up twice a day and if during seasons or illness someone needs to be isolated then they will get their very own bottle.

There are other systems but they tend to drip if you don't get the right vaccuum in the bottle which defetes the object,my system has a spring behind the ball so stopping the drips and comes apart for cleaning when required.

Will go find link to drink system.

Can you give him the type of bowl that clamps to the crate? then he can't spill.  It seems that your problems started when you expected him to go all night thus making him mess in his crate which was the last thing you wanted :-(  I'd go back to getting up early 3am and encouraging him to go out and relieve himself, perhaps if he doesn't to get up an hour later and try again.  You're right it's not fair to expect a pup to go all night either without food and water or the chance to go to the toilet.  If you make him mess in his crate it'll be much harder for you to housetrain him.  It usually doesn't take too long for them to get more control, but you need to give them that time.  Good luck.

Here is the link

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pet-Dog-Hanging-Water-Drinking-Bottle-Feeder-Fountain-/120730282129?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&hash=item1c1c15e891

I forgot to say it can also be screwed to a wall/board if clamping it to a crate/pen isn't an option.

Hi Penny,

I didn't really expect him to go all night, more the fact I was guiding myself by his behaviour (which was sleep right through until I woke him up at 6 for a wee!) only for it to change suddenly. I will have a look at the in-crate water bowls to see if this is the problem, but to be honest even when I get up with him at 2/4/6 and offer him a drink, it's rare that he'll even take it.

Last night was a success, he went to bed at 11:30pm and went out for a wee at 4:30am and then again at 6am and settled down nicely until it was very light outside and he thought it was wake-up time! I think I will stick to this routine for a week or two before trying to increase his time left in the crate, which leads me to my next question... when should I try leaving him longer, and how much longer?

Josh

Thank you for the link to the crate-drinkers. I will put one on order but I feel that it will just be chewed! LOL.

you can get metal ones

Thanks, will have to look for them.

Hiya
With our last puppy, I just extended the 3am toilet break by 30 mins a time. This worked very well for her. It helped her to learn to hold it. As the weeks went by, the time I got up went from 3am to 3.30, then 4am and so on. By the time she was about 14 weeks she could go all night (well, 11 - 6), and was out of her crate and sleeping with the other dogs.

I used one of the metal bowls that you attach to the side of the cage for water.  My last pup who is now 2 would be put in her bed at around 10.30pm and only made a noise when I came downstairs at 6am.  She was silent through the night from day 1 so I think it depends on individual pups.

It has a metal tip and you can set it up so only that pokes through the bars, the bit of mine that got chewed was the plastic screw, I think the culprit was one of the young pups, they had been using it for 6 months so don't know why she picked that day to chew it to destruction.

hi,ive got river in a crate at the side of my bed(shes 11 weeks now)i find if she begins to squeak or rustle about ,it wakes me and we toddle downstairs,she has a wee and we go back up,light off again,and we go back to sleep.Ive been really lucky because shes slept through from 11 to 6 quite a few times,and im happy to get up then.I did the same with gwen whos now 9 months,it worked well with her too.Someone on here gave me the idea-i used to hate leaving them downstairs to cry-theyd always land up in my bed!So whoever it was who gave me the tip of a by the bed crate-thankyou very much,-it works!

>but to be honest even when I get up with him at 2/4/6 and offer him a drink, it's rare that he'll even take it.<br />

Even if he doesn't take it, it is still illegal for you to leave an animal without constant access to fresh water.

I got one of these bolt on bowl holders for my GSD. He too kept knocking his water over in the crate. Because it is metal he's not managed to chew it up.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bolt-cage-crate-coop-cup-water-bowl-dog-cat-L-XL-/250875009843?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&var=&hash=item80111360b5