We have a 7 year old gorgeous english staffy girl socialised and spoiled. We just brought home a mini her 6 wk old puppy (girl also) and she HATES it! She has turned into a monster, drooling & stalking.  The pup is learning from my corrections very quickly but doesnt seem to understand growls snaps and warnings from our older dog and is VERY confident. I expected puppy problems but did not expect this agression from our other girl Help please I would appreciate any advice.

This is normal.  My resident dog always wants to eliminate the new one when it arrives, that is why I have crates and NEVER leave them unsupervised.

After about two weeks the elder dog sighs, rolls its eyes and says "I guess it is staying then" and all is well; of course I STILL do not leave them alone together until the younger one is at least 6 months old (and by that I mean I do not go upstairs etc).

So my advice is to get a crate so that both your puppy can have time not being stalked and your elder girl can have time away from being harassed.

As Tohme said it is normal behaviour, most adult dogs don't know what to do with a pup and are actually scared of it. Personally I just leave them to it, however I've never owned a staffy or other dog aggressive breed so breed specific advice would be good.

I don't think there is any need to keep dogs in cages like hamsters. Can you not put pup in the kitchen/utility room if you're not around to supervise? I've never used a cage and never had a puppy eaten :-)

Hmmm.. two Stafford b*tches (assuming by 'english staffy' you mean a Staffordshire Bull Terrier ;) )... not always a good mix I'm afraid :/

Could take quite a lot of perseverance I'm afraid, and sometimes two female SBT's together never works, so wishing you the best of luck.

I didn't introduce our male Stafford until our female was around 4 years old, and the only advice I can give given MY experiences with that introduction of opposite sexes, is to supervise, supervise, supervise.  Set the boundaries early on, pup WILL eventually learn to read the body language of the older dog, but may not necessarily heed those warnings.  I've heard of people having to rehome one b*tch on more than one occasion... and then supervise some more.

Sounds like your pup has been removed too early from it's Mum and litter mates who teach it manners and how to react to warnings,at 6 weeks old the pup should still be with the breeder.

There are many posts on here about Staffies of the same sex not living well together, it can happen in other breeds too depends on the temperament of the females involved.

Shutting a dog in another room is not really practical when you have an open plan house! ;)

Also it means that furniture items etc are available for destruction.  It is not only the pup and dog I like to protect, but my household, furnishings etc ;)

Even if this pup had been left in the nest longer it would not mean it would heed the warnings of the older dog! ;)

Wow this crate thing is very American. Aussies havent followed that trait yet but Im sure they will. I think the whole crate thing is very unsocial and cruel and if I needed to put a poor dog in a crate ? .......well maybe I should get a guinea pig or Hamster. You cant put dogs in crates or cages or apartments- unless they are reaalllyyyy tiny

Thank you for your advice much apprciated.

> I think the whole crate thing is very unsocial and cruel

I've not used a crate for a dog, but those that do use them sensibly are not being cruel. We each have our own way of doing things :)

When I brought my pup home, my resident old male was NOT impressed. If I hadn't used a stair-gate to ensure oldie had his peace away from pup, it could have easily resulted in damage to the pup and a very stressed out old dog. Using a crate instead of the stairgate would have worked too - to keep both dogs happy & safe :)

I have been teaching this pup respect coz she dosent have any and she is responding well. She is sooo tiny n new but very smart and has picked up on NO and UH when biting n starting to shake n give big hi fives already. I am correcting her when barking n snarling at the older dog but Im getting worried. One snap from our other dog will KILL the newbie 1.9kg

Yes it is terribly cruel to prevent your puppy killing itself. It is the same sort of cruelty that triggers mothers to put their babies into playpens to prevent them sticking their fingers into electirc sockets etc

Terrible isn't it?

I live on my own, what would you suggest I do with a puppy when I have a shower, bath, go to the toilet, go shopping, washing, ironing etc?

Should I have it running around maybe biting through electric cables etc?

Please advise me so that I have an alternative. 

I am not sure why you think it is unsocial?  Please expand?

As for not putting dogs into crates or cages or apartments well you can get crates for fully grown GSD and bigger to stand up in and there are THOUSANDS of people who keep dogs in apartments.

I guess we are all terribly cruel, and unsocial.

Fortunately the more enlightened dog owner sees them as a very useful training aid.

For

Alone training (all dogs must learn to be alone in order to mature into a competent and confident adult)
House training ( means the dog is less likely to have accidents, so fewer occasions to rehearse inappropriate behaviour and more times to reinforce appropriate behaviour)
When having a small child (keeps both dog and baby safe)
When you have  broken something (means dog is not at risk of cutting paws)
If you have dog phobic guests (keeps them happy and relaxed)
For travelling (means you can go to other people's houses or hotels which may not be dog safe and prevent damage)
Preparation for vet (means if dog has to stay at vet/hospital it is not going to freak out when put in a crate)
Providing a safe place (for old dogs being bothered by puppies or puppies at risk from older dogs)

As you can see the possibilities for cruelty are almost endless.

Yes she was rejected by mum and four others were bottle raised. The mum had 10. But she is smart and attentive and submisive to me but NOT other dogs. She is sooo tiny 1.9 kg and going for a 30kg adult.

> I am correcting her when barking n snarling at the older dog but Im getting worried

Be carefull about this - what are you actually correcting? Are you telling pup that she must not vocalise her fears or not vocalsie when she wants to play. If she is growling through fear (feels intimidated.unsure about the adult dog) then you are teaching her to miss giving other dogs a warning eg. do not warn another dog that you are uncomfortbale, just keep your mouth shut untill you can't take no more = silent dog that bites with 'NO warning'.
ETA - far better to avoid the situations that are making her growl - set her up for sucsess.

When stoping her from play-biting, please be aware that is important to teach a pup how to controll the FORCE of it's bite before you stop it from biting alltogether. The following article should hep explain things better:

The bite stops here.

What world were you brought up in? Dogs and all pets should run free and never be refined to a tiny cage. If you live in an apartment then you should never own a pet!!!!! Cruelty has many forms and making a loved dog stay in a one metre cage is DEFINITELY CRUEL. If you dont have the space dont have pets. I would NEVER EVER put my pets in a crate. They swim play sticks n balls go to the park everyday AND have free reign of the backyard. I think this is an Anerican thing........CRATES SUCK ITS CRUUEL

What would you do if u had a HUMAN baby???? Get rid of the cords and childproof your home???? Need I say more

What would you do if u had a HUMAN baby???? Get rid of the cords and childproof your home???? Need I say more

It is impossible to childproof EVERYTHING, as an ex nanny and a parent, I can assure that children spend their lives trying to kill themselves, that is why we have playpens.

So you do not need to say more. But thank you for sharing.

If you live in an apartment then you should never own a pet!!!!!

Dogs in flats will HAVE to be walked far more than dogs in big houses with big gardens so often have better lives (then the dogs stuck in a back garden all day) -it's just  more work for the owner.

BTW this is not an American forum.

No she is absolutely NOT intimidated just cocky n dominant n she is 1.9kg

Well if u teach ur dog properly he she will respect ALL people who come to your house and you wont have  PROBLEM.

What world were you brought up in?

In the current one.

Dogs and all pets should run free and never be refined to a tiny cage.

My dogs do run free and they are never confined to a tiny cage, they have a huge one. Not all pets should run free as of course this could lead them to being lost, attacked, killed, run over etc.

If you live in an apartment then you should never own a pet!!!!!

Really? Says who? If this is so why are not the various animal welfare groups not arresting pet owners as we speak.  So you believe that anyone who lives in an apartment should never own a cat, dog, reptile, bird, cavy, fish?????????

Cruelty has many forms and making a loved dog stay in a one metre cage is DEFINITELY CRUEL.

I do not see anywhere where anyone has stated they make a loved dog stay in a one metre cage? 

If you dont have the space dont have pets. I would NEVER EVER put my pets in a crate. They swim play sticks n balls go to the park everyday AND have free reign of the backyard. I think this is an Anerican thing........CRATES SUCK ITS CRUUEL

That is your choice, however the use of crates is a worldwide thing, not specific to one nation. My dogs never play with sticks as THAT is cruel, hundreds of dogs die and are maimed every year by playing with sticks.

I think you will find that the use of crates and exercise are not mutually exclusive nor is the correct use of them cruel.

But thank you for sharing.

Sounds like your a great pet owner - hope u dont use a crate

Is it the Australian School holidays?

Sounds like your a great pet owner - hope u dont use a crate

Yes I do, have used one for 20 years and currently I feed one of my dogs in a crate, this is to prevent the dogs fighting over food.

NEVER they are part of our family but still have rules n dont sleep in beds or couches but totally can share our home. Is that wrong?

Whether or not you permit dogs to share your couch or bed is entirely the choice of the owner, there is no wrong or right, only what is rignt for the owner.

Stubbing cigarettes out on dogs is cruel, providing them with a crate to use when requires for safety is not.

Whether you use them or not, whether or not you AGREE with them or not is irrelevant, the correct use of crates, like the correct use of leads, collars, etc is not cruel.

>CRATES SUCK ITS CRUUEL >

Excuse me?  Actually, crate training a dog if done correctly is most certainly NOT cruel, and given that you own two Staffords it's the safest way to keep them apart if you're not at home.
Who said anything about the crate size?

> Is it the Australian School holidays?>

You'd think wouldn't you? 

my bitches wouldnt go in a crate as they howled the place down! but i did buy a big one but couldnt use it. i shut rooms off instead. i dont see that a dog using a crate as a safe haven and bed, which it goes to willingly is showing cruelty?
you have said 3 times that the pup is 1.9kg but why is that important? if its a runt how do you know it will reach 30kg??

>if its a runt how do you know it will reach 30kg??>

and more to the point why would an adult Stafford be 30kg?  Doesn't sound like any adult pedigree Stafford I've ever heard of...

staffords should be 11-17kg according to kc standard

Exactly!

> Well if u teach ur dog properly he she will respect ALL people who come to your house and you wont have  PROBLEM.

People who are frightened of dogs/the look of specific dogs, do not really see how well behaved the dog is.
I have to shut my dog behaind a stair gate when we have certain guests around.
Those that are frightened by the look of him are not reasured that he is extremely well beahved and laying down calmly - they are only reasured when he is shut behind bars! I use a stair gate for this (silly really, as the dog can knock the stairgate out if he wanted too, but it still gives those visitors a sense of safety), tohme obviously uses a much more secure method - a crate. In both cases it is to make the visitor feel safe becasue the dog is confined, NOT because the dogs are poorly behaved.

> the newbie 1.9kg

You also mention she is a mini?  There is no such thing as a mini Stafford, and that weight sounds very light for a Stafford pup, even at only 6 weeks  which I agree is too young to be homed, (does make me wonder how sure you can be that pup is not even younger),and another week at least would have made a big difference in social skills and maturity. 

I agree that having two same sex staffords is likely to lead to issues sooner or later, and I would advise to never leave them alone unsupervised.

On the other hand dogs and pups idea of play often looks very aggressive, and staffs especially can be very full on with play

I used to think the same as you about crates but learned that having a crate trained dog means they can be safe if needs be in the house or car, can be confined at the vets and not flip out and cause themselves injury.

I have varying sizes 30-36 inches and one 24 inches[used in the car] which all 5 of my dogs will get into if the door is left open in the house.

Majority of the time they have full run of the house and garden.

If you don't like the idea of a crate then at least get a puppy pen to keep the pup safe if you have to leave the pup unsupervised, so many pups have been killed in seconds by an older including the litter mate of one of my girls, she was a 4kg, 10 month old dachsie killed by a 2 year old staffie they were left alone whilst the owner nipped to the loo, the staffie had been with them for only 2 weeks.

Things can go so terribly wrong so very quickly so please think again.

After reading your points on keeping dogs in a crate.....I am apauled by people like you who have pets in an apartment anyway.
I have seen Animal Cops many times in Australia and I am disgusted in the way people like yourself think that you are a good pet owner.
I have lived in apartments and would NOT entertain the idea of having any dog live in such an a place, let alone putting the thing in a freeekn crate all day when Im at work for 10hrs.
Real pet lovers would only live in a place that has efficient room for the animal to do its business and run and swim and have a very enjoyable lifestyle.
You should have a hamptser that runs all day on its wheel...WTF
I have heard of people like you and makes my blood boil at the audacidy of pet owners in over crowded cities especially NYC.
In my view its totally irresponsible to own a dog and keep it in a confined space.......WRONG

Suidae, are you assuming that the dogs are crated fulltime? If so, you're totally wrong; a dog's only crated when the owner cannot supervise it - cooking a meal, going to the toilet, having a bath, etc. Otherwise the crate door is open and the dog can come and go at will, just as any dog can come and go from its bed.

>I have lived in apartments and would NOT entertain the idea of having any dog live in such an a place, let alone putting the thing in a freeekn crate all day when Im at work for 10hrs.

Nobody who's away from home for 10 hours would have a dog without making appropriate arrangements for someone to care for it in their absence, whether that's in an apartment or the middle of the countryside. The dog wouldn't be allowed to be totally free, however - that would be very dangerous and could cost the dog its life.

Your new puppy needs a place where she's secure, as well as preventing your older bitch having to defend herself from the unwanted attentions of this needle-toothed, noisy, uninvited upstart who's turned her peaceful life upside down!

I would just like to say that staffies are NOT an aggressive breed, however any dog can be aggressive its all about the way it is been taught and treated.
Staffordshire bull terriers are basically sooks and real people lovers, all staffies I have met have been very well adjusted intelligent animals, its the bad media that make out that they are bad because of IDIOT OWNERS who have some macho stigma attached to an animal that is bred naturally muscular, these dogs arent the problem its the owners who have caused the bad publicity and the F#$KWITS who make them fighting dogs.....the people who make dogs fight have complete mental issues.

I didn't say they were people aggressive, but they are known to be dog aggressive, or at the very least less tolerant of other dogs than most breeds. Any responsible staffy owner will know this and take steps to keep their dog and others safe.

Oh and swearing is not appreciated here, changing some of the letters to symbols doesn't change the word, please try not to use them :-)

I'm very shocked that somebody coming on and asking for advice on a (very important) issue is responding with back-biting and abuse. If you respect this community's opinion enough to ask for advice, why do you then turn around and respond in such a way when the advice isn't what you wanted?

The best piece of advice I can give you is to listen to people who have real-life experience. I can assure you that the advice you receive here will set you and your dogs up for a life of happiness. Crates aren't as bad as they look. I agree they can look a bit daunting but when you have experience of using them and see that your dogs actually enjoy being in there as it feels secure and safe, you may feel differently about them. I would not really trust a puppy pen with a heavy-set breed like a staffy. If they were really set on playing with the puppy I'm sure a puppy pen wouldn't be able to stop them!

Also, if you are out for 10 hours a day I hope there will be someone home with the puppy for the majority of this time. At 6 weeks old they probably need a lot more supervision than even an 8 week old puppy that can barely be left alone for 10 minutes! Please, please take the advice of the people who are a lot more experienced than I am as they really do know what they are talking about.

Can someone please tell my aussie, who is currently upside down sound asleep in her crate (with the door open) that it is cruel to be in there!

Suidae, if you are to take the stance of 'I know best and everyone else is wrong', your going to need a whole lot more experience than owning one 7yr old SBT or SBT X, (judging by the weight) and a new pup, you are by no means any sort of expert on dog behaviour or even SBT's, whereas people answering your questions here are very experienced and some know your breed like the back of their hand.

If I were you, I would listen very carefully  to what they have to say.........

> After reading your points on keeping dogs in a crate.....

No one here is saying they keep their dogs in a crate. Think of it as a pen or a den, no different from a basket. I don't use ours much but both have used them in the past, and I'm for ever thankful that if it is required that one or either of them will happily go in and settle. We have large breed dogs, junior came to us when the elder was only ten months, due to size difference they had to be montiored every time they were together, yet soon became inseperable. The crate (pen/den) was great, the pup could stay with us in the same room but be safe. I could leave them together at night side by side knowing that the pup was content, they slept nose to nose. Also should you be unfortunate to have problems, where they need (after surgery for instance) to be kept quiet and still, crates are fantastic, the dog can be kept with you but at the same time away from harm. Crates can be abused, but I think you have come to the wrong forum if from your accusations that members here use them for anything else but for the benefit of their dog(s). 

I would just like to say that staffies are NOT an aggressive breed, however any dog can be aggressive its all about the way it is been taught and treated.

MOST staffs are DOG AGGRESSIVE
yes any dog can be aggressive but a staffy locked on to a dog with its jaws, wont let go and that is in its breeding, not the way it is brought up

Suidae, why did you choose to ask your question on this forum if you think that all the members are cruel idiots who know nothing about the correct treatment dogs?

When you ask a question and receive reasonable responses where the majority are in agreement - even if that majority opinion differs to what you have thought and believed up til now - do you not think it would be wise to take a step back and perhaps consider for a second that they may have a point that might be worth further exploration so that you can make an informed decision?

Your assumption appears to be that dogs are kept in a closed crate 24/7.  However, if you asked about the correct use of a crate, you'd discover that they are simply a place for the dog to sleep or go to when they want a bit of peace and quiet.  The door is only closed when the dog needs to be kept safe, e.g. when you are not able to supervise a puppy or when there is something going on in the household that may pose a risk to the dog (like having workmen in that may not be vigilent about closing doors) etc.

You are doing yourself and your dogs no favours with such a closed mind.

Why do you keep going on about what happens in the US when about 95% of the members are here in the UK, things here are different.

Your language is awful just because no one agrees with you, doesn't it tell you something if nobody supports your way of thinking.

Oh dear Oh dear, I can see disaster waiting to happen. Total denial that your dogs will hurt themselves or one another and you do not need to look after them just let them be free. That is the attitude that is a precursor to disaster if ever I heard of one.

Think we're flogging the proverbial dead horse here folks...

Suidae, SBT's CAN be extremely dog aggressive, take it from someone who has worked in Stafford rescue for many years, has shown Staffords for a good number of years and been involved in the breed for a long time.

I think Nova has a very good point here, disaster waiting to happen, and then another story arises for the press to get hold of and add to the already tarnished reputation of the SBT.

and then another story arises for the press to get hold of and add to the already tarnished reputation of the SBT.

The sad thing is I doubt that either is a pure bred SBT the first being what we would call in the UK a pretend Pit Bull and the pup is so small it would seem likely it is some sort of cross. But the SBT name will still be banded about and once again the breed blamed.

Tbh Nova, you're not far wrong, but sadly the implications head in the same direction.
It could be an American Staffordshire terrier or what is generally termed a 'staffy'.  That particular name seems to be associated with any Stafford X here.