I have a bitch who is noise sensitive and so I'm not looking forward to November on her behalf.  I was at my vets yesterday and so used the opportunity to bring this up and they suggested I look at a product called Zyklene.  I will be doing my own research but I was wondering if anybody had personal experience of this or had heard about it?  I guessed this was the best place to ask given how many members Champdogs has.  If I do use this it will be in conjunction with other things such as a Thundershirt and playing a sounds CD as part of a gentle but regular desensitisation programme leading up to November and beyond if necessary.

So, opinions please.

Oh and if anyone has any other suggestions on how to help her I would much appreciate those too.

I use Zylkéne, but for nervousness/increasing confidence -none of my dogs are bothered by fireworks as they are used to hearing shots through the year, living in the countryside. It definitely does have an effect although I wouldn't say it was 100 % improvement, perhaps 50 %. But like I say I've never had a chance to test it for noise sensitivity.

We've had some very good feedback from clients who've tried Zylkene with their pets - both dogs and cats - and the great thing is that, not being a drug as such, it will do no harm. It's certainly well worth trying.

I've used it in my reactive dobergirl for general stress/anxiety and a big part of her issues is noise sensitivity - but we're talking general outside noises, people going by, car doors shutting, dogs barking, that sort of thing.  It did help in that it took the edge off her anxiety so the work I was doing with her was more effective but I doubt it would have helped much with something far more threatening and immediate/close such as fireworks.

I've had brilliant success with valerian with my firework-phobic boy though - not the scullcap & valerian tablets although those did help a little (and work brilliantly for a lot of dogs), but valerian tincture which I get from Holland & Barrett.  More concentrated and considerably more effective for Remy.

I think you've left it a bit late to get started in time for this year (but good to start all the same, next year should be a lot better then) - phobic dogs needs a long time in 'therapy' so to speak for something as big as that poxy time of year, so while you should make some progress I would make sure you still have plenty of other things in place which you've already spoken about doing - my boy has places to hide, he gets his coat on if necessary (I can adjust it to a very snug fit, I can't afford a thundershirt!)

I am glad to see your vet did not suggest ACP - if he/she does, run a mile.  Worst thing for this by far (actually for any fear/phobia issue IMO).

With Remy I also try to keep everything very calm and nonchalant - I will reassure him if he comes looking for it but I'm very careful not to utter the words 'good boy!' :-P and I won't overly praise him, just a calming stroke so he knows he's got support.  He's gone from his first fireworks night when the phobia started, which saw him drooling, shaking violently, panting, panicking, the works to today, where the most he'll do is sit on my lap and look worried, maybe tremble a little bit when the big ones are going off.  The valerian was the thing that finally got him on track I think.

I do the calm and nonchalant already as well as playing gentle games and training with my other girl to try and show that there's nothing to worry about.  I also make sure she has plenty of dark holes to hide in, covered crate etc and she gets as much time next to/on me as she needs without offering fuss or praise.  Thanks for an idea as to how long this will likely take - if that's what she needs then so be it.  There is no need to rush it, I want her calm and I know this will take a while and better to go slow and steady than rush and make her worse.  I've only recently been made to open my eyes and understand just how sensitive she is - I've always recognised her fear of thunder and fireworks but it's taken me a while to acknowledge the extent of her issues and other noises that elicit a fear response.  I wish I'd seen it earlier but I know about it now so we can work on reducing her fear.

Can I ask, what is ACP? I've never heard of this before. My vet is great though, told me she wouldn't prescribe sedatives as although they may make her appear better, they don't remove the fear and so can make the dog worse by removing their ability to react but did suggest a few other things including DAP, desensitisation using a sounds CD on a very low volume etc.

I'll have a look at the valerian too, thanks.

Goldmali, I didn't think it would be a cure-all wonderdrug - if only life were that easy! However, I'm pleased to hear you have had some success with it.  Thanks JG, its good to hear there are many people who are pleased with it. 

>Can I ask, what is ACP? I've never heard of this before.

ACP stands for Acepromazine which is a sedative, commonly used as a pre-med. Your vet's attitude to sedatives is spot on, so that's good to hear!

OK, thanks.

I have used Zylkene with my Dobergirl for about a month. We got a new puppy and she wasn't too keen on him.
I'm not really sure if it was the zylkene or she just got better with him naturally. She had her last one yesterday so I'll let you know. I'm also not sure how long it takes to leave the system.

She has got better with him but things are still a bit stressy at times. He's only just 12 weeks so it may be early days still. She has seemed a bit subdued on zylkene - but then again, is that the new puppy or the Z?? I'm really not too sure at all.

> We got a new puppy and she wasn't too keen on him
> He's only just 12 weeks so it may be early days still

Dobergirls, when my youngest pup hit 12 weeks my older dogs experienced quite a transformation in their attitudes to him and their ability to relax in his company.  I do think that this age signals a real 'sea change'.

Apologies to the OP for off topic but thought it worth a mention in this case :)

for fireworks I have used the valerian compound from dorwest giving the top dosage allowed for a dog who I looked after who was terrified.. worked wonders as at the time I couldnt even get him outside for a pee .

For a more relaxation med I have used zylkene for a bitch I have who has had 2 phantoms in the past I was very impressed .

Have used Zyklene for seperation anxiety in the past and that coupled with A LOT of training has worked very well.

If you do decide to go ahead and use it my best tip would be to look online... its a non perscription drug so can be bought on ebay or amazon MUCH cheaper than at the vets! :)

Thanks all

I didn't realise it was non prescription so thanks for the tip Mad Huskies.

No experience of Zylkene, but (over the counter) Serene-Um works very well on my girl who hates firework season. I start dosing her a good few weeks in advance, twice a day, and have had a very relaxed time for the last couple of years with no apparent change in her outlook on life other than to fireworks.

M.

> I want her calm

My last dog was not happy about fireworks (we got him when he was 4 years old), he would run around the house barking his head off and just couldn't relax, after a bang he would pace around, wait and the doors, onhigh alert for the enxtone :(. For a few years we just put up with it untill I tried his favorite thing - a game of fetch (indoors) with a tennis ball as soon as a firework went off. For him, a tennis ball was THE best thing in the world, he would ignore the fireworks and enjoy his game. I can't remember how long it took to change his bad reaction to the firewroks, but he got a LOT better and we stopped dreading the firework season.

He went deaf and started to react to fireworks again - he had only learnt the posisitve association of SOUND of firewroks = tennis ball, once he couldn't HEAR the firewroks (it was the sound that we paired with the tennisball), the sight of them (even a quick flash that would light up the room) would start him off. So if going down the positive association route, it's worth bearing in mind that the sight of them may also cause a negative reaction.

The best sort of firework I found to use the tennis ball with my dog, was the ones that make the whistle/scream before they bang, as I had a little warning and could start the game before he got too worked up. He knew that the whistle/scream noises meant a bang was going to happen, but he was just on 'alert' at that point, rather than 'action'. (I had no idea it was possible to get sound CDs, I just waited for the real fireworks).

So, rather than trying to get your dog calm through the firewroks, you could just concentrate on changing her reaction to them - if she associates the sound (and maybe sight) of fireworks with something good, then you can work on getting 'calm'. Calm seems easier to achieve in a dog that is in a positive state of mind :)

I have used Zylkene on my sil's labrador & my friend used it on her TT post operation.  Both used very sucessfully.

I used it on a "rehome" girl who was frightened of the whole world, I can't say I noticed a huge difference in her but then she was far worse to start with.  However, a product that did help retrain her that life wasn't bad is a product called Stress-Less made by Nupafeed I think (they have a website) - again, natural products, think it is magnesium or similar that helps relax the dog.

Good luck.

I have a Galga (a female Sapnish greyhound) and I have having a worrying problem with her.  At the end of April she would not sleep at night and began to pace up and down, panting, I took her to the vet and she recommended Zyklene and I really did not see any change in her but it maybe that I have to keep giving it to her all the time which I di not like.  I went back to the vet at her behaviour was getting worse - the anxiety and stress was beginning earlier in the evening and it was destressing for me to see and I could not help up - also she was keeping me up all night.  In the end the vet put her on ACP  with Diazepam which seemed to work and it broke her circle of stress.  However she has started the behaviour again.  I have given her Zyklene every day and have even resorted to the other tablets - cut in half - but I must admit I do not like giving them to her - on Saturday evening I saw that she was not calm she could not settle anywhere.

I do not know what has started this off but it is only at night - showing deep stress, panting excessively therefore drinking more, runing up and down stairs.  She only settled before daybreak.  I also have a DAP but nothing has worked.

Can anyone help with suggestions because I hate to see her this way - she will 11 in October and I have had her since she was 5.

Thanks in anticpation.

It's possible that she's beginning to suffer from canine cognitive disfunction ( a bit like senile dementia); distress and prowling at night are characteristic behaviours of the condition. There is a product called Aktivait that can help quite a lot.

>she recommended Zyklene and I really did not see any change in her but it maybe that I have to keep giving it to her all the time which I di not like.

I'm not sure why you say you don't like giving her Zylkene - it's not a drug as such, but more like having a cup of cocoa or Horlicks at bedtime to help you sleep.

Thanks for that I will mention to the vet that she may be in the early stages of dementia - but it is so sad because she is a happy girl during the day but so upset during the night  I will certainly look into Aktivait.  She did stop the behaviour between mid May and later August.

I will try and give Zylkene a little later before I go to bed probably 2100 so it gives her an hour to start relaxing.

Thanks for your help.

Mastifflover, Thanks for the tips on playing the games and socialising with the associated sights of fireworks/thunderstorms etc - I'd not considered that.  Your points on my hopes for her behaviour are also a help, I suppose by calm I meant happy, relaxed, positive - anything but the scared and anxious reaction that she experiences now.

Thank you very much to everyone thats posted, I really appreciate all the views and other suggestions.

Hi everyone I am having a few problems with a young dog puppy, he went to a few shows where he did very well and then was scared by another (jealous) exhibitor who stamped his feet behind him in the puppy challenge.  The problem I am having now is that he is ok if at the back of the class but as soon as the judge walks towards him he loses it, backing off and wont stand still, he shakes and his tail is between his legs.  On the table he is as good as gold and going around the ring on his own he is ok, but as soon as someone moves near him that is it.  I have tried Rescue Remedy before going into the ring and it does seem to take the edge off him.  The question that I have is what would others do, would you take him out of the ring for a while and hope that he forgets his bad experience ( he is very relaxed upto the minute he goes into the ring) or would you keep taking him into the ring and hope that he realises that nothing bad is going to happen.  Also what do members think of using something like Zyklene for him.  He is such a lovely pup but very sensitve, his brothers are very outgoing and he was the bully of the litter when they were younger.  Any advice would be great as I would love to get this boy back to his outgoing self that he was at 6 months old.  I have tried other people taking him in the ring and he is as bad with them as he is with me, so it is not my nerves going down the lead.  Thank you in advance x

you could try valerian compound from dorwest rather than the RR as it works fast . As for taking him out or leaving him in the ring I am not sure .. seems to me though that keeping him in isnt working so a break give him time to mature a little may help.

Thanks Starryeyes, I have him booked into Darlington so we are going to see how he goes there.  If he is the same then I will be taking him as NFC for the rest of the year so that he gets to relax without doing any work.  I have got Valarian from Dorwest and I have started him off on Serene Um on the run up to the show xx

Update on the nervous puppy, he went to Darlington and got second in his class, he was a lot more relaxed than he has been so fingers crossed that he is getting over his scare and continues his good progress x

It was interesting to see this post right below the Calmex post. For those of you who haven't heard about it yet (yes I'm spreading the message because it is that great), it is a nutraceutical (like Zylkene) but it is both faster acting (30 minutes!) and induces a greater state of calm! Would seriously recommend for all sorts of anxieties etc.

Jameswatts, are you involved in producing Calmex? Only its only just hit the market where we are, the rep visited us last week and our supplier only just started selling them.

I was just about to ask the same question :-)

Well it was me who brought it up and getting a bit of extra info was exactly what I wanted. :) I'd never heard of it until this week.

Neither had I Goldmali and i work in a vets, its very new to the market, it wasn't even on their website at the beginning of the week.