Hello I am very new to forums so please bare with me.. I have a four month old golden retriever female puppy who has had sticky wet back legs  and occasional dripping of urine so I took her to the vets along with a urine sample. He found crystals in her urine and hence has put her on a 2 week course of anti biotics. She has been on them a week and the wet back legs and occassional dripping of urine has not stopped. He mentioned she may have an ectopic ureter so I  have been researching it  which doesnt look like a promising diagnosis. I was just wondering if any one has had experience of this condition and what the outcome was. Needless to say I am devastated at the thought of putting a young dog through  such tests etc .. Please any advice would be welcome.

I have no experience whatsoever, but remember reading an article recently in the Swedish Kennel Club's magazine, written by a vet, where the vet described such a case. The puppy in question was cured by surgery.

Sorry to hear about your pup. Have you contacted her breeder, if not I would do so as this condition has recently been a topic of discussion on one of the golden retriever forums.

How long has it been going on?  It'll depend exactly what's going on and where.  I had a young pup (4 weeks) who started with dripping and then infection - sadly all her plumbing was shot, neither kidney went to the bladder and nothing could cure her.  She would always be incontinent and have infections until the infection couldn't be contained so I had her pts at 4 1/2 months - a terrible decision to have to make.  It sounds like yours is not like this so you would seem to have a lot of hope - you'll need a dye test to see what's what but she's now at the right age for this to show up, I'd not have it done earlier having spent a lot of money for no answer with ellie.  Good luck with your pup - please let us know how she gets on .

Many thanks for your reply please could you tell me which goldie forums you are referring to as I would very much like to read the discussions.
I spoke to my vet yesterday who  is an orthopaedic and soft tissue surgeon ( so hopefully he knows what hes talking about!) he advised me that it would be wise to wait until after her first season  before persuing the ectopic ureter diagnosis. This seems a long time to wait as my other dog did not have her first season until 13 months. Much advice seems to revolve around taking her back to the breeder etc but this is not an easy thing to do as we have all bonded with her.   at the moment  She is confined to a large kitchen but she will have to stay there if we cannot get this problem resolved which seems so unfair as  especially as she gets bigger we do not want drips of urine everywhere. Look forward to hearing other advice on this condition

Your dog is old enough to have the tests (with dye) to confirm if she has this or not - if she does they can see how bad it is and if it can be repaired or if she'll have to lose a kidney.  My advice would be to have her tested now to see what you're dealing with - cost about £350.  My advice would be to not have her spayed as this can make incontinence worse - which is something to avoid. You can get special pants for her to wear in the house to help with the incontinence.

I have no comment re condition but to allow her more freedom around the house you could try " hygiene panties" widely available on line and for your size breed a baby disposable nappy popped inside should cope with absorbing the urine.

I don't recommend full time use but at this time when she needs to socialise and be trained it may help.

Does the pup wee normally as well as dribble?  It seems so from earlier posts - so it's likely surgery can correct the plumbing, if not it's still 'fixable' by removing the faulty plumbing and kidney it's attached to, meaning a normal life for her.  Sadly this wasn't possible with my pup as both kidneys were badly affected, meaning nothing could be done :-(

She is able to be dry all night and doesnt wee submissively ie on greeting etc, she knows to use the paper or garden whichever she can get to but seems to drip after urinating  excessively  or randomly during the day she feels wet even when I know she hasnt weed. the tell tale sign seems to be the sticky patches on her back legs which smell unpleasant which I wash and keep clean for her every day or two. She is only a baby and hasnt learnt how to keep herself clean and very rarely licks herself down below even though she watches my two older girls do it. I am desperate to know if this is something that could rectify itself in the meantime I will see what happens in another week when the AB finish and take in another urine sample to be analysed

It may be worth discussing one of the products for incontinence with your vet. There is Propalin syrup or Incurin tablets. Whether they work for your puppy or don't work may give a pointer as to whether she does have ectopic ureter or not. It is a known problem with Goldens although not common. Has the breeder produced this problem in previous puppies? I know of one who has but is still breeding.

The hormone produced when a bitch starts her season can help with a bitch who has urinary problems so I would go with the vet , a friend of mines bitch was similar occasional wetting after waking..she waited and she is now fine with no intervention just make sure the skin is kept dry and clean.
Also I would get back to the breeder as she would know if the pup was always wet when in the litter pen and she will need to know there is a problem for future litters.

Did you notice if she was leaking when you first brought her home or has this problem only just started. If she had ectopic ureter then by rights she should have always been wet and if that was the case I really think the breeder has been irresponsible by letting you have her. Unfortunately there is a problem in the breed and sadly some of the breeders that have it do not own up to it. If they did then it could be eradicated. I (thankfully) have never had it but have seen it with other breeders and that sad thing is that if all breeders were up front about it we would know which lines to steer clear from. It is a great worry when you could be using a dog whose sister had it and was put to sleep so that no-one saw it in the litter. I really hope that you do not face that problem as I know of someone that kept a puppy back because she had ectopic ureter, had her operated on and then had to have her put to sleep at 7 months of age. Hopefully if she wasn't wet when you picked her up, then she may just have a very deep seated infection and it is well worth doing the AB's and give her a chance.  In defence of the breeder, the problem (if there is one) may have come from the stud dog side. However, she shouldn't have let her go to you.

Thank you for the replies I have spoken to the breeder who I have a good relationship with   and who I consider to be a very responsible and conscientious person . We visited the puppy every week from 4 weeks old and never noticed any wet patches and neither did the breeder and I do trust her. I am watching puppy  all the time and keeping her clean and hope the ABs work  Further urine test next week so fingers crossed if not I have read they may need to take a sterile sample and send away for culturing and sensitivity test which I may insist on if things are no better. Thank you.

Well that certainly sounds more positive of a good outcome. 'Wet Puppy' is normally noticable from the outset or certainly from the time that the bitch stops cleaning the pups. However, if Mum is left with them permanently them maybe it could be missed.

could it also be an incompetant sphincter? This can show similar symptoms as an ectopic ureter but can be treated/cured with a dose of propalin

re Jolene comment..agree and also can be helped naturally after a season.

Further to my earlier posts the ABs have now run out and have taken a further urine test for analysis  Have been advised that the crystals have now gone and that would indicate it WAS an infection instead of the  food creating protein in the wee.  However the sticky wet back legs continues  some days worse than others with very very  occassional dripping. My vet has said this could be down to immaturity in that region and would like to leave it possibly til her first season but to see how it goes.  Relieved it was an infection but not sure I like a question mark over why she has this sticky substance on her back legs Perhaps i just worry too much any comments from anyone that has experienced this would be welcome.

I really can't help on this one but if your Vet says wait and see, then as long as you feel that you can trust him, you are going to have to trust him. I would think that if he thought there was a major problem then he would be investigating further. I am hoping for a good outcome for you and for her. Keep us posted.

Perhaps you might like to give Margaret Woods a ring or drop her an email. She is the Golden Retriever Breed Health Representative and has been collating information on ectopic ureter.

Here is a link to her newsletter telling you a little more

http://www.amirene.com/category/newsletters/

Dear Alison  Thought I would post that all is well with my pup regarding her urine problem Saw my vet on Friday and he is satisfied this is definately not a case of ectopic ureter. Hoorah!  Urine infection all cleared up and he has said because her vulva is now maturing her constant sticky breaches as he described them  has stopped as well.
However I am a constant worrier and am now concerned that at 5 and half months her front feet are east west and back feet are also toeing out. she is a tall gangly pup who is on adult food as recomended by vet and other goldie breeders on this forum. she has had minimal exercise i lifted her down the back door steps until over 4 monthes of age and the patio is fenced so she can only access the grass from a ramp no running mad with my other dogs either.  I feel I have done all I can but fear her conformation is bad and will certainly lead to ED or HD. My vet agreed that her conformation is not great but said it is too early to assume the worst as puppies of this age can often appear as ugly ducklings so to speak.  He said to keep to 10 - 15 mins exercise  no more than that and wait and see how she goes. I feel i am wishing her life away in case she goes lame which happened at 7 monthes with my last dog who had ED and an operation at 10 monthes.
I would welcome any reassuring comments .Please understand she is not a show dog and i am not concerned in her appearance just that these  are telll tale signs of what is to come.!

Do not think that the fact she has 10 to 2 feet will have any thing to do with the elbow joints, problem in the joints would show in a limp but agree with the vet take thing easy and use care whilst her joints and bones are growing and maturing.

Firstly brilliant news about the urine problem, I am delighted for you. Now, as to the ten to two feet. This is not indicative of any ED problems. Unfortunately the 'problem' has crept into the breed but has no problems attached to it. If you were showing then it would not be preferable but absolutely no reason to believe that it will cause any health problems. Your Vet sounds like he is good and talks a lot of sense. From what you say you are doing all the right things to ensure a good healthy dog.The back legs toeing out also do not have any impact on health problems. The fact that she is gangly could be the 'cause' of the legs but certainly are not a problem.  I certainly would not be concerned. The front feet can be helped by feeding from an elevated bowl. Enjoy her, you have done enough worrying over the urine problems. By the way, bad conformation is not indicative of health problems like HD and ED just not what we would want for showing or for breeding from.

Thank you so much for your  kind reply  I was just wondering how to get the balance between little exercise and socialisation. and is it best to pavement walk or grass walks. What do goldie people generally do . I get fed up with other dog owners asking Havent you let her off the lead yet or Go on let her play with my dog, are goldies really so fragile at this age   I am so confused I am reluctant to do either for fear of getting it wrong as she is at such a crucial growing stage. She is such a sweet girl that demands very little attention. So really want to get it right for her.

Believe it or not all medium to large dogs need care in their first year, why not take her to dog classes ring craft or obedience would do and she will become well socialised without going scatty. (sorry don't think that is a word out there in the world but I guess you will get what I mean)

Firstly, I'm so glad your girl has been given the all clear re her bladder infection, that's great news.

Regarding excercise, I have a GR pup here, almost 14 months old now, who would have been having 2 to 3 walks a day of about 15 - 20 mins each at around 5 months. I spent a long time taking her on her own sometimes, and at other times with my other two, but didn't let her off lead with my big male (who is very rough when playing!) until she was at least 10 months.

I would let your pup have some off lead time as long as she doesn't get knocked or encouraged to race around by other dogs. I always found a gentle older dog always promotes calmer behaviour, I would walk my pup with a neighbour's two elderly Irish setter bitches and it worked a treat! She learned good doggie manners which has served her very well.

At the end of the day, they have to have an element of fitness and build up of muscle to protect their frames. Without the "core" fitness, they are much more likely to hurt themselves if they take a tumble or twist. It's a delicate balance, as little or no real exercise could leave them vulnerable to injury. Try to avoid your pup becoming too overweight, and give her several short walks a day rather than one long one.

My pup now, at just over a year, is extremely athletic! I often think she gallops just because she loves it so much, loves jumping on/off things (not something I encourage, but logs etc in the woods are just about ok), she could keep up a pace for an hour at least, although more likely 45 min walks, and is still normally bouncing at the end...

Good luck, I'm sure she's absolutley fine, and she'll tighten up as she matures.