Hi. I'm wanting to import a 10-11 week old puppy (crossbreed) in Mid-October 2011 from friends in Galway in the Republic of Ireland whose dog has had puppies (it's most definitely not a puppy farm and we've known them for more than 5 years and the mother since she was a puppy and the father lives a couple of doors down). I've read a lot of contradictory information (with most of the confusing stuff being on the DEFRA website). Will the puppy have to go into quarantine or is it fairly easy to bring the puppy into the UK? We are planning on returning on the Irish Ferries large Ulysses ferry from Dublin Port to Holyhead and have booked a kennel. I've read things saying that if you book a cabin you can take the puppy into the cabin with you as long as it's in a carrier (we usually book Club Class), ferry kennels are dodgy, there is no need for a pet passport or quarantine and you just need a note from a vet saying it's fit and healthy (DEFRA website says the EU pet passport or third country official veterinary certificate must show: manufacturer and name of product, date & time of treatment, stamp, stamp & signature of veterinarian), etc but I don't know whether this is opinion or fact. The puppy will be vacinated including parvo virus (not sure it can be vaccinated for rabies that young...wouldn't it have immunity from the mother up to 12 weeks?...and what about tapeworm and ticks - DEFRA website says "Your pet must be treated against the tapeworm Echinococcus multilocularis using a veterinary medicine whose active ingredient is praziquantel. The tick treatment must be licensed for use against ticks and have a marketing authorisation in the country of use"?!?!) and microchipped before leaving Ireland. IF ANYONE HAS IMPORTED AN 8-10 WEEK OLD PUPPY FROM THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND INTO THE UK - CAN YOU HELP ME PLEASE!

No the pup will not have to go into quarantine, ireland like the uk is a rabies free country. ask the vet to download the BVA fit to travel form that you and he can fill in, though I don't think you even need this. As far as I am aware and  we have had a few working dogs here from Ireland that travel freely without any forms, you do not need any official forms.

Have been led to believe that many of the Puppy Farm pups sold in the pet warehouses are imported from Eire and there is no documentation needed, put in a van and drive them over.

Our first boy came from Co. Monaghan at 8 wks.  He had not yet had any vaccinations. We drove up to Belfast with our little man in the car on my knee and then boarded a ferry back to stranraer when we took him on deck and had him in a crate in the bar for the crossing.  No documentation required. That was 11 years ago so not sure if anything's changed since then.

Nova you are quite correct, Irish golden retriever rescue also send many dogs over from Ireland to rehome over here. There is no paper work needed as I checked today with a friend over there.

Thank you all for you help. It's put my mind at rest.

I must admit I object to rescue dogs being imported when there are plenty of home grown ones.

By all means support overseas rescues if you wish, but they should deal with their own issues, we get enough dogs bred by puppy farmers imported here already.

It's not a rescue dog. The mother belongs to a family we've known for 5 years and it is a loved family pet and we've known the mother since she was one year old. The father of the puppies is a lovely Golden Retriver who lives a short distance from and the dog and it's owners are well known by our friends; we've also seen and stroked the father in the past. I've known a few people who've been duped by what turned out to be UK based puppy farms and have paid out several hundred pounds for a puppy which, whilst turning out fine, has presented some early stage difficulties and minor but not to be expected health conditions. Additionally, we have found it quite difficult to locate a non-pedigree dog from people and dogs that we know and trust. Like we will do, many people in the UK have their dogs neutered since they do not wish to breed from them for whatever reason; which is fair enough. If someone and a dog we knew and trusted in the UK had puppies we quite possibly would have taken one of them, but nobody has. We're certainly not looking or in the market for a £400+ pedigree dog!

Until recently I wasn't aware that there were a disproportionate number of rescue dogs and puppies from puppy farms coming into the UK from Ireland. I suspect that a proportion of these dogs may be failed or "past their prime" greyhounds, which is very upsetting. I have to say though that a similar proportion from puppy farms is probably as the result of demand from people in the UK for "status" dogs without tails, etc. I would agree that maybe, if it isn't already, pressure should be applied on the Irish Government by the likes of the RSPCA, PDSA, etc to impose similar regulations to those which exist in the UK for puppies born after a specified date; I certainly wouldn't wish to see existing and imminent puppies suffering as the direct result of such legislation although it could, regrettably, result in the parent dogs ending up as rescue dogs although they could, feasibly, end up better off in the medium term.   

>We're certainly not looking or in the market for a £400+ pedigree dog!

I would advise a little more research into what a responsibly well bred pedigree puppy at that price brings you.  A good place to start could be the Kennel Club website.
You are right to avoid puppy farms but there are ways of locating breeders that are dedicated to producing typical and healthy examples of their breed.
A couple of hundred pounds extra spent at this stage may save you thousand through out your pets life compared to one bought from well meaning but ill informed pet breeders.
Have the two parent dogs you are considering had all the recommended health testing with good results? 
You note their temperament but what thought has gone into the combination of their lines rather than simply selecting on the basis of geography.  Is is likely to result in combining genes that have not produced such typically tempered animals in the past?

> Until recently I wasn't aware that there were a disproportionate number of rescue dogs and puppies from puppy farms coming into the UK from Ireland. I suspect that a proportion of these dogs may be failed or "past their prime" greyhounds, which is very upsetting. I have to say though that a similar proportion from puppy farms is probably as the result of demand from people in the UK for "status" dogs without tails, etc.

According to the Bateson Report published last year, one puppy farm alone exports 5,000 puppies to the southern half of the UK every year, where they go to pet shops & dealers. The number of failed racing greyhounds would be quite small in comparison.

The rescue dogs being brought over from Ireland are from council pounds who rigidly enforce the rule that strays are only given 7 days before being put to sleep. In many cases these are young, healthy and good natured dogs of many breeds - including Cavaliers, Labradors, Golden Retrievers, Irish setters, German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Yorkshire terriers, collies and even a few rare breeds such as Glen of Imaal terriers. Whether you agree with it or not, many of the large rescues in the UK are taking Irish dogs to rehome here. In fact you might not know if a dog from a UK shelter here came from Ireland.

I'm really not bothered about a "typical" example of a breed. This obviously fuels the market for imported breeds (almost certainly from puppy farms) of dogs where owners (and possibly the various pedigree organisations) "like" to see docked tails, etc. 

The people we're getting the dog from aren't breeders it's simply that both dogs, who we've known for 5 years, bred. When you research dogs you often find that pedigree dogs are equally, if not more, potential problematic than what is best termed a mongrel. In my job I come into contact with many varied people with a variety of pets. Owing to where I live as well as my work, I also come into contact with many people in the farming, equine, "shootin and fishin" (although I am not and don't wish to be involved in this!) and veterinary sectors. Some of these people have spent £700+ on pedigree puppies from supposedly reputable breeders only to get expensive and upsetting problems and many would have preferred a mongrel who's background was known. I can think of one £400 King Charles Spaniel in particular which had a never ending list of overall minor but expensive and inconvenient conditions and issues for the first 4-6 months!

I think knowing a puppy's background and upbringing first hand is worth at least as much (if not more so) than buying from a breeder that (apart from some form of certification from a body the breeder pays to join) is totally unknown to you. I'm a firm believer that it is the upbringing as much as the genes that make the dog. Otherwise every Rottweiler, Staffordshire Bull Terrier (in my job I've come in touch with at least five of these and they've all been "soppy" and entirely lovable family pets), etc would be a killer; which we all know is rubbish!

Of course, another threat with a pedigree dog (as evidened by the pet insurance policies) is the dog being stolen.

If people want or get sold on the idea of a £400+ pedigree dog then that's their choice (although it does worry me with some of the pedigree miniature dogs that are ending up in rescue centres currently - I have heard this from a dog walker who's training to be a vet at a fairly local RSPCA centre).

I can think of one £400 King Charles Spaniel in particular which had a never ending list of overall minor but expensive and inconvenient conditions and issues for the first 4-6 months!

I'm not surprised.  You get what you pay for! You have to ask yourself what corners have been cut for the breeders to be able to sell a pup for as little as £400. I'd run a mile from a Cavalier sold as cheaply as that, as I'd have to pay a lot more in vet bills.

Of course, another threat with a pedigree dog (as evidened by the pet insurance policies) is the dog being stolen.

Sadly these days you are just as likely to have your 10 year old deaf and blind neutered mongrel stolen as your pedigree puppy, as thieves no longer just steal to sell -they steal for the ransom they can demand off the worried owners. Lots more money in that. :(

> Some of these people have spent £700+ on pedigree puppies from supposedly reputable breeders only to get expensive and upsetting problems

I don't doubt it.  There is more to finding a well bred, healthy puppy than simply digging deeping into your bank account.  Unfortunately, you are right there are a lot of badly bred pedigree and registered dogs but that does not negate the fact there are also many responsible breeders who do their utmost, and largely success, in producing healthy, typical examples of their breed and these are worth seeking out.

As to your friends not being breeders this is like saying just because you have a casual liasion with someone you haven't thought much about  and then producing a child you are not parents!

Whoa, how did we get from importing to dog theft so fast?  And from puppy farming in Ireland which is subsidised as a rural business by the govt in Eire, to UK demand for docked tails being the impetus?

Yes there are responsible ethical breeders in the Irish Republic. Didn't seem obvious that your pup is coming from one, that's all. It's Europe's puppy farm capital, and it makes us wonder why you chose a pup from there rather than here.

>The people we're getting the dog from aren't breeders it's simply that both dogs, who we've known for 5 years, bred.

Just as it only takes having one baby to make someone a parent, it only takes producing one puppy to make someone a breeder.

>I can think of one £400 King Charles Spaniel in particular which had a never ending list of overall minor but expensive and inconvenient conditions and issues for the first 4-6 months!
>If people want or get sold on the idea of a £400+ pedigree dog then that's their choice

That's very cheap for a pedigree puppy, so one would have to assume it's been badly bred and reared on the cheap; definitely something likely to have expensive problems in the future.

Quite funny how we;ve got here, but I know a number of expensive stupid named crossbreeds who have had multiple serious illnesses costing their owners thousands and sadly not living a long life, three of which and I only know 5 who haven't, or don't look as though they are going to make their second birthdays!

Well, we've had "Millie" for 4 weeks now and she's approaching 13 weeks old! Vet says she's one of the healthiest dogs she's seen with absolutely nothing to report health wise. Her temperament and behaviour are excellent and she is absolutely fantastic around people and other dogs. She has been a dream to train and sleeps throughout the night. This doesn't surprise us since we know the history of the family who own the mother, we've known the puppy's mother for 5 years and since she was one year old plus the puppy's father is known to us. All of the litter survived and all are doing very, very well. You don't need lots of money to get a healthy and friendly dog, just a lot of love and care from the moment they and their parents are born (we paid Euro 35 plus a bottle of wine and a toy for the puppy's mother!).

I'm glad you're pleased with your pup :-) Every single pup I've owned has been the picture of health too, no puppy should really have anything for the vet to find :-)

You don't need lots of money to get a healthy and friendly dog, just a lot of love and care from the moment they and their parents are born (we paid Euro 35 plus a bottle of wine and a toy for the puppy's mother!).

With all due respect, you also need either health tested parents or a crystal ball. Puppies are always full of health (unless from puppy farms) it's a few years down the line that matters as most genetic problems don't show up for several years. End of September I took one of mine for hip scoring, tomorrow I am taking two for eye testing -it all adds up cost wise but no dogs should be bred from unless they've had the relevant tests with good results. I'm just lucky I don't have any breed that needs anything more extensive. Obviously with an accidental crossbreed litter things are different, parents probably won't have been health tested, but then you take pot luck. So fingers crossed Millie stays well. :)

When I had an accidental mating between two different breeds 9 years ago I chose for various reasons to allow the pups to be born, but I made sure to have both parents hip scored as soon as was possible. The mum was 2 years old and her score came back as 11 so fine, the dad was 6 years and had shown NO problems whatsoever, yet his score came back as 96 so severe HD, and within a few months he had problems. Obviously by then it was too late to do anything about the pups, and now aged 9 it's becoming more and more obvious they don't have particularly good hips (they look and act and feel years older than their mum who at 11 ½ is much fitter than them) -but at least they're not as bad as the dad was.

> You don't need lots of money to get a healthy and friendly dog,

On the other hand nothing to say that it will stay that way and your pups breeder has done nothing (as far as we know) to ensure that both parents and their ancestors were free of any health issues that could be passed on.

I am assuming that neither parent was tested for any of the known hereditary health problems that can occur in dogs (many not visible to the casual observer or show symptoms until older) and any more prevalent in the parents breed/breeds?

So you have basically simply taken a chance on the outcome rather than the calculated risks associated with planned researched breeding, which unfortunately can't be done on the cheap.

I would never take such a risk when acquiring a puppy.  In my opinion all puppies should be bred with care to minimise any potential for health or temperament issues. 

I might take a chance with an adult rescue dog.

I am happy your pleased with your puppy, but this is not an advisable route to take when obtaining a healthy well bred puppy.

At 13 weeks no vet can say anything about the health of a normal puppy other than...it's healthy NOW.

The care that goes into the selection of the parents of that puppy - will determine just how long a vet will be able to continue to say that.

Yes, would worry me too, having once had a dog with epilepsy I would never wish that on anyone, sometimes it can be controlled but some times it can't and then there are all the many blood disorders that can cause bleeding. We don't know the cross so all may be well but some breeds are a real health risk particularly if crossed with another breed that may also carry the same problem.

Glad you are pleased with the pup and I hope you have avoided all the pit falls but would not advise such a foolhardy enterprise in the future.

">You don't need lots of money to get a healthy and friendly dog

I would agree with that,  yes you're right you don't need lots of money to GET a healthy friendly dog, but it does and should take a bit of money on the part of the breeder (as that's what your girl comes from) to ensure that the pup will remain a healthy and friendly dog.

I would like to think that most pups that come from stock that is not health tested but are generally well fed and exercised will be GENERALLY OK, as I said I would like to think,  but I for one would rather know for that certain that problems common to my chosen breed had been checked out, if only to give me peace of mind for the future and not just for the NOW.

Putting that aside I'm glad you're pleased with your girl and I wish you well

Hi Gazza

I'm glad you are happy with your pup and she is the picture of health.  But do be aware that you have no idea what is around the corner.  I got a bargain crossbreed dog too, 7 years ago now.  He was free and very healthy and happy and friendly....until he was 2 and a half when he needed surgery to repair a cruciate tear which his indiscriminate breeding almost certainly contributed to.  10 months later, he needed the same surgery on the other leg.  Luckily the surgeries were a success but he has been left with quite severe arthritis which we have been managing for 5 years now to keep him as painfree as possible.

I hope your pup grows up to be a healthy adult and enjoys a long and happy life but there are no guarantees with living creatures...and even less certainty when you don't know the health status of both parents of the potential genetic disorders they could be passing on to their offspring which may not show themselves until later life.  At least with health testing and responsible breeding you can greatly stack the odds in the favour of pups being free from known hereditary disorders for life :)