Posted on behalf of a friend

"I have been brought up with dogs all my life and especially with german sheps.

I got broken into the year before last and i was in the house at the time, so i went in search for a shep.

When i got there i knew things were not right as the pups wouldn't come near me, very unusual for any pups, the surrounding she was in was awful, and i knew at the time that i should not take her as it wasn't normal puppy behaviour, but i felt so sorry for her and couldn't leave her there.

She was almost 4 months old and hadn't even been vet checked, she was terrified of everything and everyone and no matter how many times i took her out she never got any better, however she adored me and trusted me and loved all in our family.

My little girl who is now seven, was her best friend, and as my dog who is called perdy grew, she became more and more protective over my little girl.

As my dog grew, she became more and more aggressive, all the nervousness she has always had became aggression, so i paid a few hundred pounds to have a dog behavioral therapist, there were certain areas that got corrected, but as she grew, she just got angrier and angrier but always loved my lucy.

On sunday, i left the room to speak to my mum on the phone, my partner was with them both, unbeknown to me, my partner got up to go in the kitchen, my dog was staring and growling through the window (i would not allow this stalking to go on, i would normally move her) so my daughter got up and held her collar and said come on, my dog then turned round and started snarling and bit her, she was pushing my daughter backwards, carried on the snarling and kept biting her for a further 3 times until i heard the screams and ran in the room, my dog flew off my daughter and cowered on the floor.

My dog is 20 mths old now and i can't understand that through all her problems she has never once shown aggression to my daughter, she has a few weeks ago tried to attack two others, one being my 22 year old son, i was there, he walked down the stairs, she has known him from a pup and i put it down to maybe he spooked her.

I cannot possibly keep making excuses for her behaviour, she came from a terrible breeder, and when i scrutinised the photo that i first seen of her being advertised, it was only later that i noticed she was reared in a box crate and obviously with no human contact.

If anyone can explain to me why she would attack my daughter who she adored so much it would help me sleep at night, do you think she saw her as part of her pack and if so why has it taken this long for it to come out.

I put it down to bad blood, and bad rearing, but i still can't accept that as we have had her so long, my daughter is not wicked or cruel to animals in anyway.

From my partner leaving the room, although it felt like a lifetime at the time the whole ordeal lasted about 15 seconds, my dog only stopped attacking because we came in the room.

I don't expect you to have all the answers, but just something, anything, that can help me understand why she did this may help me sleep at night."

This dog has been carefully re-homed with someone who knows her history so advice on that front is not required, but if anyone has answers to help my friend come to terms with this it would be greatly appreciated.

So sorry to hear this - what a terrible thing to go through.  Very brave to rehome her to anyone I have to say as she is probably a ticking time bomb.  Sadly people are breeding dogs (not just GSDs) in puppy farms without thought to temperament or health issues.  It seems likely that dogs with a poor, nervous temperament have been put together, then a lack of early socialisation means that the pup didn't really stand a chance and perhaps neither did your friend.  Much better to pick from someone who considers carefully pedigrees (and the dogs within them) and rears the pups well.  Easy to say - but people should definitely walk away from breeders such as this.  It's impossible on here to say exactly what happened, but nervous aggression seems likely, however much she bonded with Lucy she obviously wasn't going to be distracted by her from what she was doing - it appeared to escalate very quickly - probably not helped by taking her collar, distraction in the form of a toy or treat would be better, but she is very young to consider this.

Thanks Penny

Nice to hear from you, seems like forever since I have last seen you.

I think that she realises that she made the wrong choice, her heart ruled her head, but think that we have all probably been guilty of that at one time or another.

I have to say that you have summed up my thoughts on the subject but I just wanted to see if anyone else had differing views.

Many thanks

h

The bitch felt threatened/annoyed by being pulled away from what she was focused on, and reacted in the only way she could to get the child to leave her alone bearing in mind her heightened emotional state.  It doesn't sound from your post as if any damage was done to the child, so could these have been warning snaps not full contact bites???.

In my Opinion to be honest this dog should have been be Put to sleep, not re-homed, it isn't a happy dog being afraid all the time (even in it's own home) and with it resorting to aggression in fearful/excited situations is dangerous.

I expect the reason it is only happening now is that the bitch is reaching adulthood, so trying to take charge of situations (and doing it badly) instead of following the lead of others as a puppy would.

It sounds very much like redirected aggression to me - in that instance the dog will not be thinking about what it's aggressing to, only that it is extremely stressed, hair trigger and something has touched it so it will have a go at that something.  I've seen it happen between dogs that are the best of friends and with no temperament issues.

If the person who has taken her on is fully aware of her issues, and is willing to take things at HER pace and with NO punishment involved, then I think you have done the best by her - I don't necessarily agree that she should have been PTS (although it is close) having taken on 3 aggressive dogs now, but I will say that it's going to be very hard work for her new owner.

I've not seen you mention anywhere if she's been spayed - if not I would suggest you contact the new owner and suggest she holds off for a bit if she's planning to get it done, the last thing this girl needs right now is a massive hormonal change (and spaying can increase aggression in some bitches - best to wait till she's a lot further on with her rehab).  And while I expect that this person is very dog savvy to have taken a girl like her on - I would also emphasise that she should NEVER be bred from a) because of her temperament issues as it may make them considerably worse; and b) because temperament is largely genetic and she'll just give rise to more nervous, potentially aggressive pups (this is part of the issue with what was my most aggressive dog - very nervy/aggressive parents).

> It sounds very much like redirected aggression to me

Absolutely agree, this is very common between hounds that can't get to their prey, they'll often turn and snap at whatever is near them or touches them just because they're so wound up.

Hi HJ - yes ages :-(  yes, it's easy with hindsight and not being there wanting to 'rescue' the pups... just not a good situation with a young child in the mix.  I hope the new owner can limit her issues - I don't think they'll ever be 'solved' but could, perhaps, be managed.  I agree not to spay her it would make her so much worse - but also agree that breeding from her is a definite no-no.  Wait until she's fully mature physically and mentally (which may be never) before imposing spaying on her.
Hope you and yours are well and hope to see more of you!
Penny

What I do find suprising is a child going up to thier growling dog and grabbing it's collar to move it.

Was the girl used to hearing the dog growling and being pulled by the collar when it growled either by her or her parents? 
Teaching a dog (of any type of disposition) that it will be dragged aorund by it's collar when it growls (you can't expect a dog to know that dragging it by it's collar is meant to be a way to stop growling - that the humans idea, not the dogs) is a good way to get it to bite somebody that grabs it's collar.

I'll try putting it another way  - grabbing a dogs collar (physically restraining) and pulling it (physically, forcably, moving it) is confrontational behaviour. When faced with confrontation dogs can either freeze (pretty hard to do when you're being dragged by your neck), run away (again, not when being held by the neck), fight back or maybe shutdown and do nothing.Add to the equation the dog is allready growling and is a protective, nervous dog with an agressive past that has tried to ATTACK 2 people RECENTLY. I think it would have been more suprising if the dog didn't bite.

For the girls safety she needs to be taught about the dogs growl, she doesn't need to know what the dogs motivation behind the growl is, just that a growling dog is saying "I am REALLLY not happy" and therefore she should NOT, appraoch or touch a growling dog - even if it belongs to parents/friends/family. (dogs can playgrowl, but for a childs safety, it's better to not risk a mix-up between the different types of growl)

Sorry, even with a pup from a dodgy breeder, the incident was avoidable - children should not me man-handling growling dogs and children should defiantely NOT be left alone in a room with a dog that has tried to attack people. I hope the little girl is OK.

Very very dodgy situation. Your friend who has done the rehome has opened herself up to a possible sueing occuring as she has rehomed an aggressive dog.These situations are a dog trainer/behaviourist nightmare as the new owners can have second thoughts when they get bitten. Lots of people thinkthey can "retrain" the dog and will blame previous owners treatment which to me does not sound horrendrous at all.

The child did exactly what children do to their best friend try to guide them when they think trouble is imminent.Unfortunately this child's best friend was a badly bred dog and the situation was really a ticking timebomb. If it wasn't her it would probably have been one of the child's visiting friends who got bitten. Do think parents should have NEVER have left her there alone but this is what happens, owner complacency.

Clear case of redirected aggression reading it but I do not have high hopes for the dog full stop. Done it once will do it again, if new owners keep the dog it will have to be "managed" all of it's life and can they do that? Do they have the facilities to do it? Soundsto me likethe dog imprinted it's behaviour from it's parents as well as genetics. 

Whilst very sad it was always going to happen and I do question exactly what kind of life the dog is "enjoying". Not at all pleasant to be in a virtual constant state of anxiety this is one of those define healthly issues for me.

I do agree about the redirected aggression but one thing is bothering me.

My dogs (well the bitches mainly) when they can see one of their dire enemies through glass or  wire go nuts and grabbing their collar would result in a bite because the red mist is down but (and this is the bit that bothers me) as soon as they see who they have snapped at, they STOP.

You say the dog kept on snarling and biting a further 3 times. Surely it would have known who it was biting by then so why didn't it stop.
This just worries me. Poor dog though to have such an awful breeder.

You say the dog kept on snarling and biting a further 3 times. Surely it would have known who it was biting by then so why didn't it stop.

Not if it was fear induced. The dog wouldn't be able to calm down enough to realise.

> You say the dog kept on snarling and biting a further 3 times. Surely it would have known who it was biting by then so why didn't it stop.

It's only a 7 year old childs interpretation that this is what happened, the dog stopped when Mum came back into the room. I suspect the dog was still growling at whatever it was outside, and snapping around as it couldn't reach whatever wound it up rather than attacking the girl.

i agree about misdirected aggression. my bitch will bite anyone that grabs her collar if she is after something, she was brought up in a shed. im sure she still loves your daughter

Don't forgot it says in the OP that the dog became more and more aggressive/possessive around the child. Major red flag for me. Behaviourist already been out and dog still behaving in this manner worries me. Although was the behaviourist good?

Dog was purposely bought due to break in which leads me to wonder about possible guarding instincts being encouraged misguidedly and not being put under control. And exactly what was the dog growling at? No explaination been attempted, something passing window? Partner in window? Reflection? No specified and its still quite an extreme case of redirected aggression.

Kids are kids and do silly things but I sincerely hope it hasn't mentally scarred the little girl never mind the physical.

>Absolutely agree, this is very common between hounds that can't get to their prey, they'll often turn and snap at whatever is near them or touches them just because they're so wound up.

yep, as a kid we had an Afghan, he hated other dogs and if you stopped him getting to another dog he would turn and bite the same if he was going at something out of the window, he would bite whoever tried to stop him :(