Hi all - I just wondered if anyone else had come across negativity and criticism (the non-constructive kind) from people who have been showing a while.  I attended my first open show at the weekend and neither me or my pup have done it before and having only been able to get to one ringcraft class, our inexperience showed.  However, I hadn't gone expecting to just do it straight out, I wanted to do a few open shows to see how it all happens, pick up tips, watch the experts etc and introduce my pup to the idea.  I've been all over the internet reading up on showing, have asked questions on CD and read several useful books but obviously none of that is any good without trying it out.  I didn't expect to get any placings but was keen to meet other breeders/ showers in my breed and tap into their invaluable knowledge and experience.  However, I met with several quite hostile people who made several remarks about my lack of experience (even tho I had told them it was our first time).  Don't get me wrong I also met several lovely people who gave me some great advice and I now think I have found a suitable ringcraft class to help as a result but I was quite upset at some of the comments people made. Part of me just thinks I want to forget about it all, but the stronger part of me is all the more determined to soldier on to prove I can do it.  Do these people not remember that once they were in the same position and if nobody new got into showing, they wouldn't have anyone to compete with???  Sorry to rant but I just wondered if anyone had come across the same thing and if so how do you handle it?

The world is made of all sorts.  I am glad you have found others who have been rather more helpful and that you have now found a more accessable ringcraft option where I am sure you will find a more construction atmosphere away from the competitive angle that clouds some peoples attitude to new comers.
My own experience is that the helpful sort far out number the neggies so don't let the neggies colour your impression of showing disproportionately :)

Hi

I have been showing for a few years now, but witnessed something very simular in my own breed this weekend. It wasnt directed at me, but at a new person in our breed. This person hadnt been to a "proper" show before and thought he would give it ago. I think that some people in my breed were very rude to him! I felt embaressed by association!
In fact today I have been questioning myself as to weather I should bother showing anymore.

We all have to start somewhere. I do try and talk to new people around the ring. i enjoy the social side of showing. I guess ego comes into play with some people.

Dont worry about them though, as soon as you start winning and they recognise who you are, they will be trying to talk to you.
It's there loss, and there are loads of great people in the showing world, it is just a shame that a few think they can behave in such a bad way.

Good Luck xx

Stick with it - I am also new to showing and I felt very awkward at my first show with a fairly immature 6 month old pup - but I felt we both needed experience and the sooner the better.

I did know one or two people but they weren't exacty friendly but things have got much better now I see them more often.  Whether we'll ever actually be 'friends' remains to be seen but it's nicer now that I'm spoken to around the ring.

Go to Ringcraft and the shows and hopefully in time you'll be accepted and learn even more as well as looking forward to your days out.

Rant away Mrs, there are some right miseries about aren't there??!  I've always found it takes such an effort to be rude that if I behaved like that I'd have no energy left for showing - it's so much easier to smile at everyone :)

I've met some very nice people through dog showing but I suspect that most sports/hobbies etc suffer from petty jealousies and mean spirited people (there are plenty of them) so do try and put it behind you and remember that generally the good outweighs the bad AND "One day, they'll get theirs" 

...I do occasionally long for one of those 3ft deep holes, disguised as a small puddle, to appear in front of them   ~    and as long as I don't say it out loud that's OK isn't it??? ! :)

Well Im not new to showing - quite the contrary so have seen this scenario repeated over and over!

I find in these situations the person complaining  is  either over-sensitive to critisism or have a nice puppy!

Most of the grumpy, negative (losers by any other name) generally fall over themselves to bring another into their clan...those tend to be newbies with poor quality dogs who lap up the " youve been robbed"  - " its all so facey" talk they are given..

So it either means you have a very nice puppy which they dont want to encourage you to show in their locality

or well meaning people are telling you things you dont want to hear.

Thats my slant on it.

Thanks everyone - I really did enjoy the day and we miraculously came away with rosettes.  I want to do it as much for my dog as myself and also my kids are really interested in it.  The nice people were very helpful but isn't it funny how the negative comments are the ones you remember!!  In particular a lady came up to me towards the end of the day, just before best in show while I was practising putting my dog on the table, and said "it doesn't matter how good your dog is if you are no good at presenting her - and it's such a shame with such a good example of the breed".  When I pointed out that we'd won the group puppy class, she just walked away muttering to herself!!!  The more I think about it, it's more laughable than upsetting, and I suppose I should be flattered that they see me as a threat lol

Well there you are then.....

Its the nice puppy they dont like.

If you want everyone to be nice to you at dog shows...get a poorer example of the breed...they'll all love you and fall over to help :-)

You won the Puppy Group! Well done.

Congratulations

> "it doesn't matter how good your dog is if you are no good at presenting her - and it's such a shame with such a good example of the breed"

It's always worth telling the steward you're new to all this and they are great at pointing you in the right direction (literally).  I had one at our very first show who was brilliant and I think she tipped off the judge too who took care to explain exactly what she was asking for.  The steward also stood nearby and reminded me that we'd need to come back in after the bitches to challenge for best puppy then waved at me when it was time.

In truth I've found that judges are very good at spotting inexperience and are willing to look past the handling to assess the quality of the puppy or dog.  Some will often reposition your dog during their hands on too!

Sounds like you had a good day really - congratulations :)

Thanks Toolz - I think you could be right, especially when one very experienced breeder asked me where I got her from and what was her pedigree etc - she seemed a bit annoyed that it wasn't a breeder she had heard of.  Particularly as, apart from her Sire and Dam, I couldn't remember any of her lines.  It turns out tho when I checked when I got home, her great, great, great grandfather on her mothers side was from the same breed line as hers :)

I didn't see much of the steward but the judge was great - I think he must have looked past my handling lol

A good day out ....really ! :-)

Keep away from the 'downers' and the ones riddled with envy, let them tackle their own inner demons together...just leave them be.

Lots of kind decent folk frequent the show scene....fewer if you beat them admittedly, but thats the nature of the beast Im afraid.

In lots of ways you get an easier 'in' if you start off with a poor dog - so you, my dear, will just have to smile and take the rosettes :-)

Well done to the OP & your pup, may you have many more shows with results like that.

> In truth I've found that judges are very good at spotting inexperience and are willing to look past the handling to assess the quality of the puppy or dog. 

Had 3 GSDs only ever tried the middle one in 'proper' shows - he hated it so stopped after the third show.........BUT.........did loads of exemption shows with the first dog as he liked it (and did well)
I was at a show where the judge was a VERY well known person, judging at Crufts and also abroad. In the ring for Non-Sporting, there was only 1 other GSD among other dogs in the class, person in front of me with other GSD was at first ever show of any sort - told Judge this - stood dog 'square' and moved it like the others had done, ie normal speed in a triangle.
Judge told them .....................don't bother entering until you know what to do!!!
My turn and I was asked 'do YOU know what your are doing here?' ............'Yes'.............'take it round 3 times'..........we didn't get placed and when we came out the other owner was just about in tears :-( . so we had a 'ringcraft' lesson by the car using my dog as he knew what speed to move at.
Chris

Congratulations.  We have only been showing a year and we found it hard too, but some people were really nice and helpful, and others just ignored you.  Enjoy it, dont let them put you off, they forget that we all have to start somewhere.

I have actually found it is the fairly new (five - ten years) who seem to be less encouraging, perhaps jealous of anyone else gaining a little success that they are enjoying, or perhaps aren't.

Almost invariably those who have been in their breed a decade or few, have had their cyclical ups and downs, seen fads and trends in the breed and the show game come and go, that are the most encouraging and helpful, as they want to pass on to the next generation of exhibitor.

Coming towards the end of my second decade in my breed I only just consider myself beyond novice status.

As in all spheres there are all sorts of people.  Sometimes at the Open shows, and even at Companion shows you will have long standing exhibitors with a very perochial attitude, who only show at that level, and don't have anything good enough for higher competition, and often are very jelous of anyone stealing their thunder, being the local big fish in a small pond.

> I was at a show where the judge was a VERY well known person, judging at Crufts and also abroad. In the ring for Non-Sporting, there was only 1 other GSD among other dogs in the class, person in front of me with other GSD was at first ever show of any sort - told Judge this - stood dog 'square' and moved it like the others had done, ie normal speed in a triangle.
>Judge told them .....................don't bother entering until you know what to do!!!

And this was at an Exemption show???
Good job they are called Companion shows now, I'd hope that kind of snobbiness and harsh handling (of the exhibitor) will be a thing of the past.

I've recently entered two Companion shows, both judged by 'proper' judges and just for a bit of fun, entered my funny-shaped, rescue, unregistered but purebred dog in Non-Sporting. The judge at the first was lovely and stepped in to help me when my dog sat down and refused to stand! It was also the first time I'd ever run a triangle, and I've never been to a ringcraft class in my life! We placed 3rd out of 3 but later won Best Veteran in the Novelty classes.

At the second show I only entered to get a bit more ring practice after the first, it was rather a big posh affair and a big class, but the judge was very nice and couldn't have been more encouraging. At the very least I now know my dog doesn't mind being fully 'gone over' by a stranger, something I needed to know as I'm applying for her to become a Pets As Therapy dog.

Glad your over it now, I have had the same experience. I had my dog as a pet and ex show dog and decided after some encouragement to show him. So I turn up with no experience and a dog which is nearly always placed to meet some very rude people. Now on my 4th dog show still making a mess of it but hey ho. S*d em I say, its a bit of fun. I look at their miserable faces and think, not very nice in your head is it?!

HeidiJan, the comment you've described is very blunt and could be tinged with a bit of envy, but be open to what you hear--once the sting rubs off there really is some value in what she said. I hope others will forgive me for repeating a short anecdote which is relevant here. Last year at our breed champ show I managed to place my puppy 3rd in JD in a large class with several quality dogs. I'm very new to this, I'd been to a few ringcraft classes, but I felt very out of my depth and I'd seriously considered not going only the night before, so it was a mad dash to groom him, a mad dash of 150 miles with all three dogs and a very stressful day. The breeder of one of my dogs came over to congratulate us--I hadn't even realised that he was now qualified for Crufts. The club chairman simply said to me "That dog has qualified in spite of you." I could have been a bit affronted, but I knew exactly what she meant and we were lucky to have a judge willing to overlook my shortcomings in favour of the dog's strengths.

That afternoon very senior people in the breed took me to one side and made it quite plain that they'd be watching us at Crufts and were expecting to see improvement. We didn't make the cut at Crufts despite working hard at ringcraft virtually every week, but I am getting better and my ambition is just to live up to the dog's potential.

At National Gundogs he came 2nd in a very respectable class and this time the club chairman congratulated me because she could see the difference in my handling. 

It sounds like you are lucky to have a nice dog. There will always be people to congratulate you on a good show, or commiserate with you on a card-less day, but don't give up or feel insulted because of what that handler said to you--she was actually doing you a favour, even if it doesn't seem like it to you just yet. Rosettes are great but they aren't the whole story--it's about you and your dog working together. Watch the experts, learn and keep going, work as hard as you can, keep it fun and the magic will happen. 

such a shame at your first show, but was the person who was really nasty in the same breed if so it could be sour grapes it does happen unfortuneatly, the only opinion that matters is the judges when i first started showing it was with gsd,s i had a judge withhold the first from me i was the only dog who had turned up in the class because it was not his type it really grated him and with bad grace when nothing else turned up and he had to give bob and bpib to me, this was 17 years ago now i would make a formal complaint as that is not the reason to withhold but did not know better at the time, what group are you in and are you doing wolsingham i might see you there

we're in the hound group - mini sh dachshund - the nasty person had long hairs and she was with people with s/h.  No we can't make wolsingham cos we're on holiday but doing Stanhope week after - maybe see you at that one?

The only dachsie folk I have had a problem with have been youngsters that I had met on a dachsie forum who could barely bring themselves to say hello when I went and and searched them out, I am pleased to say none were in the mini long show folk, the older exhibitors in all coats were very welcoming.

I hope you have a better experience next time.

I have to say I've found people to be great!  So friendly and supportive lots of advice but never anything patronising and all with good intentions - we're always only ever too happy to listen to constructive criticsm of our dogs and handling.  Obviously I select what I take to heart and use my common sense as well but I am soooooo in debt to the people in my breed who have transformed my handling.  I find them a lot better than ringcraft as our girls don't do well in the tiny hall full of dogs and we do get some - "I can't believe you actually take them out to champ shows - they must be mental surely, how have they won anything with that behaviour and a lot of you've been lucky so far but they won't accept that later."

did have another experienced puppy owner and breed judge in a class with us at one show who said nice puppy except..... and reeled off a whole list of faults and showed us why his pup was better.  Although when our boy won best puppy in breed over his bitch he shrugged his shoulders - i think that must have been nice puppy problems...

Overall everyone has been amazingly lovely and now I go to shows to meet up with like minded people in the breed and not just to train my pup

When were you wanting to talk to these people, was it whilst the breed classes were still going on?  Some can seem a bit off because they are wanting to make sure they don't miss their classes.

I have been showing for over 20 yrs now ,but stopped for a few as the winning dogs was predictable so i saved my money,during showing ive seen people reduced to tears through nasty comments,as have i.But as i wanted to show i soon learnt that those who are catty arnt worth my time.Try practising at home ,standing her,walking, triangles, up and down etc,and get yor family to go over her etc,my children loved learning this and eventually went in junior handling, 20 mins each day will help your dog and you to be confident and will help you to understand what you dog will do ,likes and dislikes,hope this helps and good luck.

Don't let these people put you off. I've come across it many times and it's the same people over and over, not just me either, they are just plain rude.
I've wished someone well done as they have come out of the ring and they looked me up and down and then gave me a look and walked off.. Shocked I was.. Not bothered even congratulating them since and just avoid them now.

We've been showing for over 20 years, it's the same with everything, some lovely people, some horrid ones, just avoid the horrid ones, they aren't even worth a second thought!

When were you wanting to talk to these people, was it whilst the breed classes were still going on?  Some can seem a bit off because they are wanting to make sure they don't miss their classes.
That is so true,when we started showing with our first girl,our breeder was at the same champ show.We were firm friends,spoke and e mailed reguarlly.I spoke to her during the breed classes and was surprised to have a very short reply.After she apologised profusely and explained she was so focused on her dogs and the classes that everything else gets blotted out.I also used to get really tense,but just tended to be quiet and kept running to the loo(thankfully I now enjoy the experience).
Also when I first started showing there were relatively fewer people in the breed and everything was more friendly and encouraging.Tips and support were also given freely.However I have found that now the breed has grown in popularity (sadly at times to its detriment) there is more back biting,nastiness and negativity.In my other breed there are again few numbers.Everyone knows each other,and when we met up a shows its more like a party :)

The same has happened to me and the judge was very rude! I would love to show, but I just hate the tense atmosphere and don't think my boy gets much out of standing around a ring posing for a piece of bait! He much prefers working...

Wow, winning the Puppy Group at your first show - sounds like it was definitely sour grapes I'm afraid! My very first dog was a great dog, he won BOB at loads of shows just out of puppy, got a CC at 14 months, got 2 1sts at Crufts etc, and though most people were friendly, I did get some catty comments, including about my handling, which admittedly was pretty bad back then. If you're doing that well, you can't be doing too much wrong - keep going to shows, go to ringcraft, ignore the grumpy people, and focus on having fun with your puppy and improving your handling as you gain experience. :-)

don't think my boy gets much out of standing around a ring posing for a piece of bait! He much prefers working...

It's up to YOU to make the show fun for the dog, and that should start the moment you arrive. When we get out of the car I tell my dogs "This is one of these nice places where you get lots of extra special treats!" and bring out the liver or sausages or similar, then the treats and praise and also play continues throughout the day. The few minutes in the ring is such a small part of it.

Also when I first started showing there were relatively fewer people in the breed and everything was more friendly and encouraging.Tips and support were also given freely.However I have found that now the breed has grown in popularity (sadly at times to its detriment) there is more back biting,nastiness and negativity.

You got Championship status on the same day as we did in Malinois -bet it coincided with that? I've found exactly the same and indeed for a few years before the people in the breed begged the KC to NOT give us tickets. It did change everything.

Mine enjoy meeting up with al their human admirers (that's what they must think) and their doggie chums and relatives.

Mine must be vain though as if I stand too close to a ring they try and drag me in even when it's not our time or even breed.

From this lazy humans standpoint (especially when I was busy with the children) it was an activity that you could do as much or as little as you liked, and what the dog needs to learn isn't rocket science (loose lead, stand and be gone over) so once learnt there isn'tne hours of dedicated practice that the performance/working disciplines require, so can be a more relaxing way to spend time with like minded people and dogs.

> Mine must be vain though as if I stand too close to a ring they try and drag me in even when it's not our time or even breed.
>
>

Mine adore meeting all of the humans and dogs of all shapes and sizes.On Saturday Michael kept trying to get in the ring, we were sitting up by the Working Group, he didn't care, he just wanted to be in.  They love it!!! As it was previously said it's up to the owner/handler to make it fun.  You only get out what you put in.

If you want to get some more practice in we are running a Companion show at Consett on Saturday - come along and meet some local show  folk so you know a few more folk in time for Stanhope?  Lots of people will be happy to help you iwht handling, presentation etc.

sorry not doing stanhope transport issues am learning to drive and mum is unable to at moment, and i am having to rely on lifts a friend is tsking me to wolsingham we are doing city of birmingham the day before with her baby she is coming down from fife to us and spending the weekend, are you entered at darlington champ show if not you might want to go there on your day and watch your breed being judged and have you thought about doing champs shows with you baby and trying to qualify for crufts the sites to look at are highampress and fossedata, at darlington the online entries are still open but no cc,s are on offer so no crufts qualifier and are on friday, while driffield online are still open and have ccs on offer and a minor puppy and a puppy class are on offer and are on saturday just a thought

hi am newbie to showing as well iv found gundog people so lovely and helpful we have done 5 shows now and had lovely suport,iv come from world of heavy horse showing its very bitchy and full of horrible people,

please keep at showing at end of day u are taking best dog home ,try and ignore the coments i now its very hard

best of luck

It's up to YOU to make the show fun for the dog, and that should start the moment you arrive

LOL... it starts in our house with grooming the night before because they know baking liver cake means a day out . They all know what's coming and after putting up with a bath the treats start to come out, and then they are all happy to crash out on the bed for a couple of hours before we set off. My oldest dog isn't shown and has a pathological hatred of the grooming table, but I was so touched this year after I'd finished the show babies he came up and sat in front of the table of his own accord and looked at me to say "ok I don't mind if you trim me too." He let me put him up on the table for a couple of minutes, then put a paw gently on my arm to say "enough now ma!" and that was that. I was very proud of him--my little woolly bear. They are just are glad to be together on the day and they all get massive praise and treats throughout the day and travelling.

>>and said "it doesn't matter how good your dog is if you are no good at presenting her - and it's such a shame with such a good example of the breed".

if she spotted that, then it woudn't have hurt her to show you how to stack your dog.  Someone did that to me the other week when i came out of the ring.  They saw how she was stacked that day and showed me a better way to prsent her.  i was greatful that someone liked my girl enough to care.

You will come across negative and facey people, some time you don't realise until its too late to avoid them.  these sort think its their right to win based on their face and no tthe dog.  Just stick with the positive showers, You'll soon make friends and have a nice circle around you.

Good luck.

going to read the rest of the posts now. :)

We have been showing about 3 years and this is the first year that we feel part of the crowd albeit, junior members.  There have been shows where I would of happily thrown in the towel, setbacks finding a good puppy to buy and show.

There will be people you think are friends, until you win, and those who will watch your progress and help you make the step up the ladder. 

The fun depends on what you want from it and taking the advice offered along the way.  Like all advice, some you will use, some you store for another day and some goes out with the rubbish!

Good luck (and there's nothing to say you can't show and do soothing else like agility if you want variety)

I have been showing for 5 years but I must say in my breed there a re more people prepared to help you than put you down when you start off. It does take a while to be completely "accepted" BUT I must have been lucky to have had my dog's breeder (also quite new to the breed) to introduce me to the world of showing. Since then, I must also admit having come across jealousy(not directed at me but other breeders)/ comments made from the ringside/ rude behaviour/ bad losers behaviour which have at time made me question whether showing is really for me. Anyway, 5 years down the line, I don;t show much and I hand pick which shows I go to as my dog is getting older and although a nice exemple of the breed, not amongst the elite in a numerically strong breed at CH shows.
My advice as a newbie, stick with the "nice/helpful" guys and not let the others put you off. Personally I don;t enter into gossips/ I don't want people reporting to me what such and such said as ignorance is bliss as far as I'm concerned! :-)

Thanks everyone - you've all been so helpful and I have loads of good advice to follow now (sorry for late reply - been on holiday!! :)) - As it happens, the day after the show my bitch came into her first season so that explains why she was very unwilling to be handled round her back end - like my hubby said - if we got placed in our first show with me a bag of nerves and her coming into season - then the sky's the limit when we have had practice and are on form !!!  Although like I said - we didn't expect anything on our first show and as long as the kids and my pup enjoy the days then I don't mind if we don't get placed.  Particularly at the sgricultural shows cos there's so much more to see and enjoy too.  The sour grapes and bitchinessy certainly hasn't put me off doing it and my kids are also keen to help out - we all have a great time, both in the run up to the day and on show day - it's amazing how I have to drag them out of bed Monday to Friday but Saturady or Sunday mornings for a show they can be up with the lark lol - We have got the details of a great ringcraft class (as recommended by some of the nice people I met at the show) and are entered into Stanhope this weekend and then Driffield (wetherby) on 01 October. (My eldest daughter is also going to enter the young handlers class on that day)  - Thanks again everyone and I will keep you posted how we get on

Very happy to see you havent been put off.

Like you, Ive experienced the negativity from others when you do well. One show in particular everyone spoke to me before the classes for our breed but as soon as we did really well, I didnt get one person say well done, hardly anyone spoke & when they did it was only to whinge about the judge. From then on,  I couldnt give a monkeys! I would get upset but not anymore. I know who my friends are and who are just bitter people with nothing nice to say about anyone.
My take on it is, everyone is different but one things for sure, I will remain gracious of winning or losing and remember the old saying, I take the best dog home.

I wish you every sucess for the future with your dog. Ignore the haters! :)

Hi all - I'm so pleased I decided to stick with it (mainly due to your support and advice!!) - we had our second show today at Stanhope and although we weren't placed as well as our first show - we did come home with a rosette of each colour 1st to 4th and a lot more confidence.  I also met lots of people from the ringcraft class we started this week and lots of other nice people and even some of the negative people from our last show were a bit more accepting today and managed to speak to us today.  My pup stood a lot better in the line up - walked lovely round the ring and I managed to do things better too - her only issue now is confidence on the table - she stood lovely until she spotted the judge and then she started fidgeting and trying to get away from him.  But overall I count today as a big success because - if nothing else- it has renewed my enthusiasm and boosted my confidence - I feel sure with many more ringcraft classes and some more practice that I will be able to show her to her best potential.  Thanks again everyone xx

Do wonder if perhaps at your first show your nervousness came over as your being a bit standoffish and that may be accounted for the snotty response you got. Glad things went better today long may you continue to enjoy your showing and I wish you much success.

I agree, I know that those who are shy often come across as standoffish, so people don't warm to them.  I have known several people in my breed who could come across this way, but are nothing like that once you get under the reserve.

Glad you enjoyed today.  I wondered if at some point some of the tents would blow away, but the weather held up, mostly.  Always a nice atmosphere at the country agricultural shows, although a lot less entries than a few years back.

Yes it was good - right until BIS when it decided to downpour - thankfully it blew over just long enough for them to get finished - it was a great day - kids love the agricultural shows cos there's other stuff to see besides the dogs lol :)

Glad you had fun - I do miss showing... :-)