Would you still wait for group if the group judge did not like your dog after previously judging it?? would you bother wasting your time going in knowing you will be lucky to get a proper oncce over let alone a second glance?

Yes, I think it's rude not to. I also think it's unfair to the breed as a whole and the breed judge not to have your breed represented in the group. I wouldn't enter a show under such a judge but having already won BOB I would go in the group. Remember you are performing for the spectators (future judges) as much as the judge and it's not as if they place the dogs in order other than 4 (or maybe 6 or 8 shortlisted) so you're not bring 'flung out', or if you chose to see it that way you will be flung out with many other champions  ;-)

Thanks for that, that makes me feel a little better lookingf at it from that perspective, i bathed my boy today getting ready for tom (no CC's though) and was looking forward to it but my heart sunk a lttle when i saw the group judge lol, and i think the majority who will be there tomorrow in my breed will feel the same lol. but heyho gotta get BOB first so hopefully it wont be me tomorrow lol

Well now I don't know if I should wish you luck or not :-D Hope you have a great day!

haha yep, good job i like the show 150 miles for no tickets lol, must be mad

Have to respectfully disagree with chaumsong. :) I will never go in the group if it is a judge I do not like. This could be for a variety of reasons not the least being they could be known to me to be too rough with the dogs (quite amazing just how many are, and I keep careful notes of this) and if I have a young dog I'd do anything to avoid it having a bad experience. A seasoned adult is different. Also as it often is a case of many BOB winners not staying then yes it can be a case of being chucked -you could be one of very few not being placed (at open shows you could even be the only one not placed -I have seen groups with as few as 5 or 6 breeds turning up, many a time -some smaller opens don't schedule many breeds) and I'd rather avoid that as it looks bad. I never stay for puppy groups as I don't think it is fair on the pup, and if we've had a long journey and the dogs are tired then we seldom stay for the adult groups, again for the dogs' sake.

If you regularly read Group or Best in Show notes many judges comment on missing dogs.  At National Gundog, Sharon Pinkerton said in Dog World "Two BOB's didn't show..."  "...disappointing again for both the breed judge & myself".

as newbie iv stayed twice as we got best of breed we never got look in for best of gun dog group but as experince for hector and i we went in for best in group think for us its more for experince

Although I have never been in the group at a championship show - I would definitely stay.  You're representing your breed and whether the judge has judged your dog in the past it doesn't matter, judges should judge what they like and see on the day. Chances are it is different competition from what you have been up against in the past. 

Claire

Ahh open shows are a different matter Marianne, I was talking about champ shows, sorry I should have made that clear. I understand what you say about young dogs and being careful about judges but (in borzois anyway) if you win BOB (at a champ show) it's likely to be with a mature adult well used to showing :-)

Do agree with Chaumsong and feel it discourteous not to take the place that another in your breed could have had. If you are not prepared to go under the group judge and the BIS judge do not enter the show. The only time I would be worried is if I knew the judge to be clumsy or rough with the dog.

Strange enough it is often a surprise that a judge who recently did a breed judging and did not like an animal will still think if a better example than others in the group that they may have awarded, I can sort of see why this may happen but suffice to say it does, so go take your chance like everyone else and you may be surprised.

Good luck with the BOB by the way, at least you will not have a problem if you don't make it.

I'm going to sit on the fence and say it would depend on why I don't particularly want my dog being under that judge. I would agree if I thought the judge was a bit rough with the dogs, I wouldn't stay! Also if I had been under that judge before and they didn't even "look" at my dog, I wouldn't stay. If the judge had "thrown out my dog" before, I would stay - after all another day, another set of BOB :-)

Incidentally, a few months ago I got BOB with my boy and I had guests who had come along in the morning. Having discussed it with them and we decided to stay as most breeds had been judged and we should only wait an hour or so before being judged. Well, the judge took 2 hours for lunch :-o :-0 and then took 10 second to look at my dog on the table and according to my friends did not even look at him move around the ring! In this case, I would not waste what was a beautiful afternoon again!! :-(

The problem with this particular judge was that she misunderstood the breed standard in regards to tails and was fault judging on it so there would be no chance of a second glance, as it happened though our bob did have a curly tail and didn't even get a second I'll pretend to look interested in it in the line up lol.

Well Boody, with a bit of luck someone will have mentioned it to her and by now she will know what is a good tail and what is not.

Do agree, some of the group judges do leave a bit to be desired, once lost to a dog called out by the wrong name, makes one wonder if it was such a bad example it resembled something else, was not at a Champ show but was a Champ show judge who has done BIS at most.

I tire of guessing the group winners before hand I've hot the last 3 champ shows right so far :) still the best part of the show for me is seeing my friends and maybe winning a class.
It's happened with a couple of allrounder judges this year and I think the club are going to address this now fingers crossed.

Yes i think you should stay, if your breed judge has deemed your dog the best then it is very rude to just walk away i feel

Yes I think you should stay certainly at Champ show level, maybe a little more leeway at an open show with a puppy. I do believe in Ireland if you are a no show for the group or BIS then you could have your green star taken off you.
Having hummed and ha'd once with Merlot (and taken so long to make my mind up they were calling the groups by then ) when she won BOB at SWWPB with a very poor entry and only an open class, she was only 11 1/2 months  she went on and won BIS. You never can tell. It was the first time I really believed she was as good as others thought... and now she is a wonderful veteran, where does the time go ??
Aileen