Hi all,
just another inane question!  I must admit to being a bit shocked at the cost of a catalogue for a champ show. Can you do without? Are they useful? 

Best not get onto car-parking! What a good job I'm paying and el husbando won't know how much its costing him to park our crappy old car - thank goodness we don't have a caravan!

Hey ho! :)

I only ever bought them to see who was entered, as in my breed I know the breeding of the few new dogs coming into the ring each year I don't buy them anymore except for our breed club shows, for the results I use the printers results services.

I used to buy catalogues until recently when I worked out that if I don`t buy a catalogue over 3 shows the money I save means I can enter another show..... I`d rather have the money to enter another show than throw it in the bin, which is where they ended up :) Any information you need from the catalogue is available from the ring stewards and the chief stewards if you ask nicely ;)

I don't bother with them anymore as generally there are so many exhibitors about with them I normally sneak a peek at theirs or ask someone like Lisakom.
The only time i'll purchase one is at Crufts if i'm entered.

Yes, we buy a catalogue at every show we enter, I like to see who's entered, mark up the results and then have a good read over the long journey home.  We have a cupboard full (it's the catalogue cupboard), some going back 20 years, I love to look back at old ones and see who was entered especially if the dog we were showing at the time has since died.  I was shocked to see one Ch show I recently entered where a catalogue is now £6. We don't pay for car parking as we take the caravan, but don't mind paying for that as we usually stay for the week.

As you say - hey ho!

I've hardly ever bought one and I'm a cheeky person who has a nosey at my friends :)

i don't buy one except for club shows.  i tend to  be cheeky and  ask someone if they fancy selling me  my breed pages lol

Kind of makes you wonder if it's all the people NOT buying one that's bumping up the price for those of us that do..........! I always buy a catalogue because I want to know exactly what is there, study the breeding, the ages, have it in front of me when I watch the judging. Plus I almost always check a few other breeds as well, to see if people I know are there or dogs they've bred.  Not to mention that it helps a lot when determining how long it is before you will be in the ring -especially when you're in a breed that almost always has other breeds first in the ring.  So I keep a check on what class they're at, how many are meant to be in the class, how many there actually are, how many is in the next class etc. I'd be totally lost without a catalogue.

At one time the catalogue was very useful and informative but since people have been able to stop their contact details being published there interest and usefulness has waned some what. Never the less I do like to have a catalogue as I like to know what I am looking at and if possible from where in the country they come.

I allways get one as I like to look at the breeding of the dogs. There is always a new face and it is noce to be able to look them up. I keep them all too and it has often come in really handy for looking up the breeding of dogs that are now way back in my girlies pedigrees. Old age makes me forget sometimes who is who !!! I have an old blanket chest they all live in.
You and me keeping up the sales then Goldmali !!!!
Aileen

i nearly always buy a catalogue, even if i havent ordered it with entries i will buy one at the show. i think they are invaluable to know how long your likely to be till your ing the ring and whos there with what, how old the dogs are that your up against etc.

Big sigh...yes, I am a saddo who buys a catalogue every time (also have had a few nicked while I've been in the ring and left it on the bench), but that's because (a) we are still new, this is only our first full year of shows, (b) I want to see who is entered and (c) the results online don't tell me the whole story. But that's a research geek for you. I have argued with myself that it could be a big saving, but I have in the past limited the number of entries rather than give up the catalogue. I think for someone wanting to find out as much as they can they are pretty useful.

As a now happily single person all I have to worry about is my sons cottoning on to the cost. They'd kill me.

I always used to buy a catalogue, don't like sitting round a ring without one. All getting too expensive now though, so I don't at general champ shows. £6 for something that will go in the recycling at the end of the day is ridiculous. Have quite enough clutter in my house without keeping them!

Always buy one at breed club shows and at Crufts.

M.

I used to just offer someone 50p or £1 for the pages for my breed, or just peeked at someone elses. I usually treated myself to open show catalogues though as they're not too expensive. I miss shows!

> So I keep a check on what class they're at, how many are meant to be in the class, how many there actually are, how many is in the next class etc. I'd be totally lost without a catalogue.

I'm too busy with shwoign the4 dogs to be qble to do any of thqt (not to mention with lack of eyesight they were pretty much useless for any of those things).

I have bought a catalogue at every show Ive competed at ..and thats a lifetimes worth.

Almost the best bit of a show to me is when I get to look through the catalogue at home and really study what had actually happened on the day.
I keep about a decades worth at a time and I do have a handful of very old ones from several eras......usually big important days for me.

There is an amazing amout of information contained within and study can reveal interesting patterns.

I suppose it depends whether you're a 'student' of your breed or just a competitor.

There is an amazing amout of information contained within and study can reveal interesting patterns.

I remember a show once, years ago now, when I had gone just to watch -I only had one bitch to show and she had come into season. I was sat ringside with a friend when in the ring we spotted a dog that just took our breath away. I'd never seen him before despite having been showing in the breed for something like 4 years. Instantly the catalogue came out and we looked for the dog, found who it was -never heard of him or the owner. But did know the lines behind him. Despite that he looked so different, instantly caught your eye. Later on I spoke to my bitch's breeder and she said she'd seen the same dog and had much the same reaction, her first thought when seeing him was "It must be a new import!" -little did she realise she'd bred one of the parents. Best of all, this turned out to be a rescue dog! The owner had been given him, complete with all paperwork, by a pet owner who no longer wanted him.

I'll never forget that day I saw him the first time. Without the catalogue, I'd not have found out who he was, his breeding etc. I'd have found his name in the results online, but nothing more. The following year I mated my bitch to this dog, and just weeks later he won the breed's very first dog CC at Crufts. Today both he and my bitch are Champions, pretty much all my dogs go back to him, and his owner is one of my best friends ever. No it wasn't the catalogue that did it all, of course not, but it HELPED. I'm shy, I would not have gone up to anyone to ask to look in their catalogue had I not had my own.

The catalogue is where I get all dogs' parentage from, and they become engrained in my mind as I spend a long time reading through them -most dogs shown today in my breed I know the parentage of without looking them up -and approximate age. (Granted it is a small breed numerically!!) When something new appears in the catalogue it's so exciting! If I just asked somebody for a quick look, I'd never remember new names of dogs and owners. I also keep my own records of every show with tickets ever for my breed, note down who won the tickets, who won the reserves, who the judges were etc.

With the cost of entries and fuel and handling entries I go without at both champ and open shows - I used to buy one every show.

I buy one at Crufts though.

> I suppose it depends whether you're a 'student' of your breed or just a competitor.

I suppose I am lucky as all that info can be found in our breed club publications and show catalogues, as we are a numericaly small breed.

Our breed club Journal has listed all the Breed records supplement info for the breed for the year (registrations, transfers, exports, CC's, champions, JW winners etc), and all the champ show with CC's results.

>I suppose it depends whether you're a 'student' of your breed or just a competitor.

Not being snarky when I say this, but I think that's a bit of a sweeping statement in this day and age. I have BRS at home going back 20 years for my breed, and we also have a fabulous breed database available online for UK and overseas dogs. I can always look over someone's shoulder at a catalogue at a show, and results are available online either through the general sites or via a breed forum for all but the smallest open shows.

Each to their own. I don't want catalogues lying around the house and I object to both the money and the waste element of general champ show catalogues.

M.

I have BRS at home going back 20 years for my breed, and we also have a fabulous breed database available online for UK and overseas dogs. I can always look over someone's shoulder at a catalogue at a show, and results are available online either through the general sites or via a breed forum for all but the smallest open shows.


But names and results say very little unless you have the dog in front of you to see. It's a package. :)

I've always bought them.  I've been showing (with a bit of a break in the middle) for 2 years, and still feel very much a newbie.  I'm just beginning to really understand what I like and don't like in my breed, so to watch with a catalogue in hand is great for learning which dogs have/produce what I like, and I don't think I could do it without a catalogue, bearing in mind the ones that have the wow factor for me may not have the wow factor for the judge on the day so they would not necessarily appear online in the results. This knowledge isn't particularly beneficial to me at the moment, but when it comes to adding more dogs (and maybe even breeding), I'm pretty sure this information will all be very useful indeed :-D

>But names and results say very little unless you have the dog in front of you to see. It's a package.

I guess we all process information differently. If I've looked at a catalogue at a show whilst I'm looking at the dog, and then have access to all other information at home, I fail to see how I have any less information than others - and in fact, probably a lot more than some.

As I say, each to their own. Am quite happy with how it works for me.

M.

The BRS doesnt tell you the predominant strengths and weaknesses of breeding animals.
It doesnt give temperaments, movement and style...breeding gives that - coupled with the living dog in front of your eyes.

If I can instantly have reference to a catalogue I can usually deduce why a dog does what it does...stands like it stands, moves like it does.
I can 'see' its parents contribution to its make up..for good and bad.

Many people go along to see their dog, and those of their competitors, placed 1st to 5th.

Some analyze why. ....a very complex equation.

Being a scientist I suppose I want to see 'the pattern'.

Probably why we tell newcomers over and over..to sit ringside and study. Im sure we mean with reference to the dogs breeding.
We had 79 puppies entered last weekend at a club championship show......now that was interesting reading and one I think needed doing on the spot as they stood in the ring.

As another has said...it works for me :-)

I am so pleased that a few others buy a catalogue, not many friends in my breed buy one but when there's a new puppy in the ring with an owner no one recognises, out comes my catalogue, I too would be lost without it, I like to watch the judging and see who's in the classes.  Must say though I prefer the ones just for my group, just wish all Ch shows would do this and not just a handful.

I still buy them, I like to see who is my class, and entries for classes before us so that I can work out when we might be in the ring.   On occassions when we've had the potential of classes clashing, I can decide on the odds which class we're best in if a choice has to be made

I use them in subsequent years to work out who is most likely to go to the shows again to decide between shows and to weigh up the entries a particular judge drew and what they placed.

I do think they are very expensive and soon push up the entry costs!

I used to buy one at every show, but I don't now.  As it's such a 'small' breed I know every dog in the ring, not just their breeding, but pet names as well!  Any new puppies that appear, we all soon know who they are.  It's a very friendly breed :)

> As it's such a 'small' breed I know every dog in the ring, not just their breeding, but pet names as well!  Any new puppies that appear, we all soon know who they are. 

Ditto, in the young classes it would be rare to have more entries than placings, sadly.

I can see for bigger entries a catalogue would be most useful, as you can often tell a lot more about the judging from the dogs left out than those placed.  I buy pages from someone in another breed if I feel the need for a catalogue for a particulatr show.

Having been in my breed for around 20 years and having a great memory for pedigrees I can work out the connections.

Also I don' often get to sit ringside to spectate as I am busy showing the dogs (my own or friends), sometimes I can watch the male judging, but even then I may get called upon to take a dog in.

I used to buy one at every show, but I don't now.  As it's such a 'small' breed I know every dog in the ring, not just their breeding, but pet names as well!  Any new puppies that appear, we all soon know who they are.  It's a very friendly breed :-)

Yes but you could easily argue that for my breed as well. Then one day a new import appears! Or somebody who has bred a litter from a bitch that hasn't been shown, and now the pups are being shown. Or even in my breed working line dogs suddenly get shown. All of those cases mean you could never know what was what without the catalogue -and some dogs may never be shown again. Couple that with a lot of French names in pedigrees (especially of imports, or for pups where the bitch was taken abroad for mating) that I for one would never know the spelling of unless I saw it. :)

I just like catalogues. i keep them for years and it is great to go back and look  at what was being shown years ago. Champions first appearing in puppy. Seeing which dogs go on to be shown for years and which dont.
I like to be able to go back and check breeding and dates of birth of  dogs. i do have a good memory for these details but I only know what I do because of the time spent learning them and the catalogues help.

>The BRS doesnt tell you the predominant strengths and weaknesses of breeding animals.
>It doesnt give temperaments, movement and style...breeding gives that - coupled with the living dog in front of your eyes.

Agree entirely, but neither does the catalogue, which is what the thread was about LOL. For those  dogs I don't know who appear in the ring, a glance at the catalogue will tell me the breeding and I will go home and look it all up later.

>If I can instantly have reference to a catalogue I can usually deduce why a dog does what it does...stands like it stands, moves like it does.
>I can 'see' its parents contribution to its make up..for good and bad.

Ditto, and if I don't know the dogs I can try and find someone who does.

I don't think we're in disagreement here, I just think we both have different ways of doing things that work for us both. Vive la difference!

I wonder if Higham and Fosse will ever take the view of making single breed catalogues available for the exhibitor to print out online. At £1 or £2 a time, I'd welcome this and I think others would too. With various people cutting back, perhaps they might make more money this way.

M.

I wonder if Higham and Fosse will ever take the view of making single breed catalogues available for the exhibitor to print out online.

Much as the general idea is good, not sure it would  work. People would look at what else was entered and if the "wrong" dogs were, would stay at home rather than waste the petrol.

Damn Marianne, you're right of course. :-(

M.

In my breed we rarely have puppy classes at open shows so a catalogue can be invaluable to pinpoint the other puppies or simply to know that we are the only puppy entered.  I've lost count of the amount of times I've had to remind the steward.

At a show in March I was in the only AVNSC class (open) with 5 other puppies, none of whom were placed.  If I hadn't asked the question of the steward the judge would not have invited us back in to choose a best puppy - even then, one person had already left the ringside.

Without a catalogue we might otherwise have missed out on Best Puppy and the subsequent Group placing...

> I wonder if Higham and Fosse will ever take the view of making single breed catalogues available for the exhibitor to print out online. At £1 or £2 a time, I'd welcome this and I think others would too.

Now that I would go for, but not every show.

I just like catalogues. i keep them for years and it is great to go back and look  at what was being shown years ago

Me too lilyowen. I have stacks by the bed which include old Crufts catalogues I was very pleased to buy off another gundog person. It's been a handy way to catch up--while so many of you have been in your breeds for years, I've only just got started at the tender age of 53 and time is moving on fast!

> if the "wrong" dogs were there

Marianne...on Facebook there is often links to shows listing those attending....I never say that I am ;-)

Used to buy catalougues at virtually all shows then cut down to breed club & a few odd close clubs with pages for my breed at £1 a time(which wasnt always accepted), at champ shows. I now have stopped buying pages, in the last couple of years & just stick to breed clubs. I thought it was a good idea when a few general champs offered group catalogues but they are only £1 cheaper, which seems a bit silly. I sometimes buy Bath champ as its only 20 mins from me & if I dont enter I have saved £'s...lol. I can usually take a peak at the class/es I have entered, from some kind soul in my breed, if I can be bothered.

Up to a couple of years ago I had catalogues from all the Ch shows I went to since 1987 but I HAD to have a clearout so tore the pages out for my breed which took ages. I keep all the Crufts catalogues complete though.

Last year our club was fortunate to be the recipient of a few VERY old schedules from someone who had died.  It was fascinating to look back at the breeds there and the lines and in particular, how descendants of some of those dogs make up the entry in the modern day show... I real bit of history that would of been lost if that person hadn't bought a catalogue "way-back-when"

I always buy one with my entry, only time I haven't is when I am entering a show that I'm not sure I can actually make due to work so only enter 1 dog and then if I can't make it I've only lost 20 odd pound. If I do make it to the show I buy a catalogue on my way in. LOVE seeing who is in our classes etc and then if we have done well its like a little momento :-)  (still keep them if we don't do well LOL)
Paula xxx