I just wanted to say that I hope anyone on here who lives in the city and who have friends and family living up there are looking after themselves and staying safe.

I'm shocked by the behaviour of the minority who are destroying parts of the city for others.

> I'm shocked by the behaviour of the minority who are destroying parts of the city for others.

Agree wholeheartedly Sue. A bunch of yobs with an eye to the main chance - absolutely nothing to do with the original protest and everything to do with making trouble. Isn't it lucky they don't live in the Middle East where the police/army would be gunning them down by now? Once they are caught they should stop all their benefits and if they are too young to have benefits stop their families benefits until they have paid for all the damage caused!

I feel sorry for those who live in these areas who have nothing to do with this and of course for the police/ fireservice/ ambulance service members who are putting their lives at risk for a bunch of idiots who don't know they are living!!

Makes me sooooo angry!

The stealing looks like such a free for all.  I hope they get a few people into the courts and some stiff sentences handed out pretty promptly as there seems a great danger that even more may feel they are missing out on something and think every night is shopping night!

Typical rent a mob behaviour, it's any excuse to get something for free. Not a thought for the people whose livelihood they disrupt or anyone elses safety :(

why can't they use rubber bullets and water cannons on them and stop being so damn soft on thugs that do things like this, other countries shoot them , we are a laughing stock when giving out discipline.
I feel so sorry for people that live there and are law abiding citizens, people where saying that many of the people that are doing the rioting do not live in the area that they are using social networking sites to get together to do this, about time we stopped letting them get away with it and do something that will make them think oh god we could get hurt.

Husband has just come home from work in Croydon and he asid there are large groups gathering; I do hope this is for some other purpose than to cause mayhem.
We are too soft in this country, if people knew there would be serious consequences as a result of their actions they might think twice :(

The Police are in a no-win situation though aren't they?  Damned if they do and damned if they don't......

It's damned scary, so glad I don't live in London. What makes that place so volatile ?, there are impoverished areas in every city, not many of them spill over into mob violence, so what's so different in London ?

>Husband has just come home from work in Croydon and he asid there are large groups gathering

Thats worrying :-(  I'm concerned about some of my colleagues who have been called in to help up there, more than likely they will be in South London.
Far too many innocent people are being affected by this and then those who are trying to keep the peace as such are being treated like this? No Respect!!!

> We are too soft in this country

Saying that - I was aghast at the police dogs who were clearly not under control.  They had the film on a loop on the news last night and we played it back again because I really couldn't believe what I was seeing.  The group were walking across in front of the handlers and dogs who were pulling and walking on 2 legs to get at the crowd.  One man was brought down by the dog attacking his leg - now he might very well have been one of the trouble makers because he was shown under arrest a few moments later - with his trousers clearly torn - but at the moment the dog caught up with him he was just walking.  We have some idiots who are just looking for a fight but sadly I know from first hand that they can also wear a uniform too!   When you are standing at a football match with a good natured crowd and friendly bobbies in their normal helmets who quarter of an hour from the end suddenly disappear to be replaced by faceless officers in riot gear and no numbers you know someone is spoiling for a fight and it wasn't the crowd I was standing in.  I have been narrowly missed by a police horse charge down the middle of the road in Tottenham as we were making our way to the football - I have been frightened more by police actions then any of the fans I have been with.  As long as this attitude exists in our police force these mindless idiots will think it is OK to fight against it.  I don't expect them to be saints but their training and position should come above all else.

Sorry if you see a dog behaving like that, a Police dog you go no where near it.. Simples..
These people gathering are likely to be there for one reason and thats not to shake the hands of the officers doing a bloody hard job!!

As for football matches which has nothing to do with this matter, the chances of fighting afterwards is very high between certain clubs and hence why the Police have to be prepared..

What these people are doing is NOT acceptable..How on earth do you suggest the Police and others deal with those causing this violence towards people and property?

It is now starting in Birmingham :-(

Both hubby and I ex Police. You are right it is a no win situation. Once you have been in a riot situation ( Brixton & Broadwater Farm for us) you realise it is truely like a war zone, you have to look after number one, the mob mentality means they are baying for blood.
Sadly there are good and bad in all walks and professions in life but what also inflames is the press capturing a moment on film, no this is what hppened before or after, just that moment and taken out of context it can look bad.
Suejaw hope your friends will be ok; we will be concerned for our daughter ( who is also in the Service) and her colleagues. I hope things calm down :(

Oh god, hope your daughter is ok.. Is she in the thick of it?

Just watching the footage on the BBC in Peckham... I really think water cannons are the next step, but who is going to make that call?

This is in no way to excuse the subsequent violence, but it is shocking that once again we appear to have a man killed by police and his family not receiving the help they need and deserve--let's hope the truth emerges quickly and without the lying and cover ups we've seen in the past.

> I feel sorry for those who live in these areas who have nothing to do with this and of course for the police/ fireservice/ ambulance service members who are putting their lives at risk for a bunch of idiots who don't know they are living!!
>
>

Agree .

yes it started on that, but now is just mindless violence, that I know there are alot of police out there that several of our members know.
There is NO excuse for what is happening, Ok one kid dies, but WHY the violence,
As for the police dogs, and horses, they only work when needed, So if you have seen them charging down the streets, someone has caused problems.
You just move out the way.7There is no excuse for whaqt is happenoing. I just hope tyhat the innocent and emergency services are safe.
Noone should even try to justify what is happening as it is supporting it.
Anyone that is supporting this, even by trying to justify this should be arrested as well.

Jay15 andf Ceejay, have ytou actually seen what is happening???????
I cant see why you are trying to even justify any of this????????
Maybe you havnt seen the live footage I am seeing on BBC news????
Lea

My dughter has just sent me pictures of the view from her flat ( Croydon) smoke everywhere. She has not been called in to work yet. Several parts of Croydon are on fire, Argos & Maplin have been looted- if only people would stop and think.
Hope everyone, friends, relaatives stay safe. We are about 3 miles from Croydon and the sirens are constant.

Furriefriends, Chris are all yours in? 

Lea, I think I made it VERY plain that I was not in any way excusing this madness and like any sensible person I hope that the people involved in looting, rioting and ruining people's livelihoods will be dealt with accordingly. My point was that very few seem to be sparing a thought for the family of the dead man and that seems wrong--don't you think?

Sawhearts, ~Furriefriends, Chris, Sue, ~Liv amd anyone else in the middle of london, hold on I know one other that are in the middle of it, lives in london,
I hope you are all safe xxxx
Lea xxxx

I think it is time to send the military in now and flush out the rats .

London's burning.. I'm shocked, really am by how quickly things have gone downhill in Croydon.. If this continues and or gets worse, then the chances of me and your daughter being called in are going to be high... Jeez..
Is your daughter able to leave her flat Sawheaties?

FF I know you're slightly further out, but hope you are all safe too x

I'm not in London Lea, however its still very worrying how the violence is spreading..

JAY15, I am replying to you as you made the point.
A man died, that is very sad, be he criminal or saint. The problem is that the Police Complaints Authority once they have been called in DO NOT comment. None of us know the facts of this case and so there is much speculation, which is not a good thing.
The family are understandably distressed, they are hardly likely to sy tht the Police Liasion Officer is doing a spiffing job! They also are too involved to see what type of person their relative MAY have been viewed as by other agencies etc.  

My thoughts re with those whose lives are now at risk by the thoughtless actions of thugs who use any excuse to try and justify their lawlessness.

Suejaw, I would prefer that she stays 7 floors up rather than try and get to us, we re only a few miles away anyway :(

> but what also inflames is the press capturing a moment on film

totally agree with that - and they had it on a loop so you kept seeing the same thing over and over  - I seriously hope that police and civilians alike come out of this safely but it is so sad that we have this element in our society that have no respect for authority and their neighbours - probabally no self respect either.  It is frightening how it just takes a small spark to set things off.  It just shows how society can break down quickly.  I don't think they can do much until it fizzles out. 

Jay15, unfortunatly that is a thread for somewhere else. As this is no longer about the kid that died, as the riots are not about him. This is about mindless loiting, burning etc etc.  The kid that died, I dont know what happened, but the vilolence now that are unassociated to this. And maybe when the mindless violence has gone then the kid that died will get his say!!!
Lea xx

He was not a kid but a thirty plus old man wasn't he ?  Gang culture needs to he addressed.

Looks as though the police are going to be needed on alert in most towns and cities it's not just the London areas now, it is going to be terrifying for all the innocent people caught up, the cost to put the towns back in order is going to be horrendous these idiotic thugs just don't think that food, clothes etc, everything will go up to cover insurance costs.

I hope that the police will use every bit of force necessary to stop these people, the whole lot of them need locking up.

I hope that family and friends caught up in this will all be safe, my boys aren't going near any towns until this calms down.

Its starting in Bromley now.. HuskyGal you look after yourself x

I don't think it will become widespread just where there are like minded idiots
which is is certain towns and cities.

They are idiots as cc tv now will mean they will all be caught. I wonder how many off them can only communicate via text speak and have an IQ of an molecule or is that giving them the benefit of doubt ?

Makes you want to cry doesn't it all the damage being done I hope and pray no-one innocent gets hurt, keep safe everyone!

I'm with you LJS bring in the military too, these people need catching they can't get away with this. I salute our police force bl**dy awful job, your an angel suejaw and friends.

Dreading the news tomorrow.

And now Clapham Junction..

CCTV is only going to be good if you can see their faces, most of them have their faces covered. Lets hope that people will be willing to stand up and identify these thugs if they do know them on the images that are going to be put out there..

I really don't know what to think, but i'm angry in what these people are doing to the innocent, their homes and livelyhoods.. They are killing their own communities too, how on earth is that going to help them in what ever cause they have in their own minds.?

They will be found out :-)

Where are the military as they need to be rounded up and dealt with :-)

I feel for the innocent people fo those areas whose house/place of work/ business is being damaged, the policemen and women and their family as they haven't "chosen" to be in that situation but have to be there through duty.
I DO NOT have anything to say to excuse the behaviour of a minority of yobs who would take any excuse to be violent/ loot and destroy sparing no thoughts for anyone else.
I also believe those youths should lose their human rights, the minute they forget about others' human right and put them in danger! If it means those attacked have to defend themselves using force/ dogs/ riot horses then so be it. If you ask me the police should be given a break here! Why is it that's there's always someone to criticise them when they use violence back. What would you like them to do, stand there and ask those kids "nicely" to stop!!!!!

I do feel for the family of the man who was killed but was he not carrying a gun? He chose to do so and knew what could happen by doing so... Come on, lets put responsability back into the hands of the crimimals and not lay it at the police force/ governement's door! How about the families of the rioters? Do they think it's OK for their kids to behave in this way?

This country is supposed to be civilized but it looks like me that it is rules by criminals who know they will be protected and excused - no consequences to their violence! :-( :-(

Thanks sawheaties not in but I know where they are and are safe and away from it all. yes I can see the smoke from our bedroom window and so cross there is absoultly no excuse for any of this violence
Its just the thugs and it seems very young ones in a lot of cases who are getting a buzz from this.
The police are in a no win situation if they do nothing they havnt done enough and if they do something they are too hard. Yes you mess with a police dog you get whats coming.
Any sensible person should be away from these areas by now.
As I said somewhere else get out or get the water cannons going we need to step in with whatever it takes and now.
Its not just London all our major cities have similar problems london has found the excuse to kick off Birmingham s followed anyone else fancy joining in.?
Sorry  I am having a case of the grumpy old .... and fed up with all the nastiness and violence thats around
Ps suej I agree what are they doing to their own communities ??

Its all terribly worrying, just heard there is trouble in Ealing now which only a short distance from where my parents are :-( don't think i will sleep very well tonight.

> Its all terribly worrying, just heard there is trouble in Ealing now which only a short distance from where my parents are

Oh no :( I hope your parents are safe.

There is trouble in Bristol now too. I think Brainless is in Bristol - hope your safe Brainless.

Shocking, shocking, shocking........ Utter madness and it's spreading everywhere :( :( I hope all innocent people caught up in any of this, including the emergency services, stay safe and that all the little scumbags causing it, get thier comeupance.

Been watching all day on and off here in Oz.  So saddened and sickened by the behaviour I've seen.

There are NO excuses for this, none at all.

My nephew & very good friend are with the Met and on the 'front line'.  Hoping that they and ALL the police officers get home safely.  So saddened for the ordinary people now left to clear up who have lost homes and businesses.

I too echo that i hope fellow CD'ers and their families are safe.

I have nothing really to say that hasnt already been said, but i believe this is just the start of it :(

Thanks mastifflover they are ok ATM all I quiet by them for now, its so scary when you think these kids are our future :(

I hope all our Cd'ers and families are OK this morning.
I cannot believe what is happening to our country. My OH has been saying for years that one day there will be this kind of thing as the government have been so soft on the  troublemakers over the years that we have reached a stage where they have no fear of recrimimation.
I work alongsid the police in a small counrty market town and yes on the week ends we have some mindless violence, though nothing like this, the police often say that it is so disheartening for them to arrest the thugs only to have the CPS or courts smack thier hands and let them out to do more of the same. The government have to give the police and courts more power. They are throwing criminals out of jail as we have not got enough room....come on those of you who are supposed to be in charge get your act together and do something about it.
I am the most mild person you will meet and have always steadfastly believed in the law of the land dealing with crime but even I am getting to the point where I can see it just is not strong enough.
All I can say is I am glad I am nearer 60 than 20...By the time I get old enough to die peacfully the country will have dissoved into anarchy...God help my children and Grandchildren.
Aileen

These thugs are the ones who're responsible for our pensions and nursing homes in due course. I fear for the future.

My son and his wife live in Hackney and speaking to him last night he was pretty scared.  Fortunately they are ok, but goodness knows if this will kick off again tonight.  I know the police are stretched but they seem to be letting the looters do as they please.  Time for the water cannons at the very least.  We can't let this go on surely.

And now its all the way into Nottingham -getting closer. Glad I live in a rural area but really feel for everyone who doesn't. What's the world come to?

I never saw the police dog incident, but there are plenty of possibilities of course -quite apart from the fact as pointed out that if you see a dog acting aggressively you surely do not go near it. The man could have said something as he walked past and the handler could have given the dog a command. That we don't know.

The dogs i saw on the tv i was flabbergasted how calm they looked with all the anarchy around them, if one of them was aggresive i would not be suprised and im sure no one could expect any different in the circumstances.

Where are the parents ??? They are the people who have produced young people who think it is fun to steal and vandalise. Any parent who allows their youngster to be out roaming the streets has to have a long hard look at themselves :(

> Any parent who allows their youngster to be out roaming the streets has to have a long hard look at themselves :-(

Those parents will have sent them out with a 'shopping list'.. :-(

This is 'recreational looting' and stealing to order under the literal smoke screen of burning buildings.

My heart goes out to the innocent people who have had their property damaged and business' wiped out, how they must be feeling this morning.  I hope this is addressed soon and brought to an end.

Now seen croydon in daylight and its wrecked god knows how long this is going to take to sort.