My poor young pup! we missed out on Leeds (my mistake - I'm a newbie) so I searched around and found a local open show which had no closing date mentioned, so phoned the CS and got an ansaphone message re. entries closed etc etc. fair do's, and I had my information  (didn't leave a message).  However, the show secretary phoned me back minutes later (he 1471'd me) and asked me to send my dogs details by email as the entries had only just been sent to the printer and he could ring them thru.  I did this and followed up with a hard copy as requested and my cheque, feeling very chuffed to finally have booked a show...

I have just discovered that I had an email in my box (ironically sent on the 22nd - date of the Leeds show I missed and my birthday, also a day after I sent the email and schedule) which curtly said, that the entries at the printers had closed the day before (the day it was promised my details were to be emailed) and my schedule and cheque were being returned.

I got my letter 'proof of posting'd' (thanks for that good advice Rachelsetters) and know there is some odd rule re. right to enter - but is this a case for it?

I'm just SO disappointed - does verbal contract even come into it?  Any ideas short of giving up trying to show dogs and taking up knitting?!

i would phone them again as it may just be an automatic reply ?

I have had this happen to mer also and the secretary asked me to call the printers to see if they would accept my entry which they did with no proble. I do know if they had started printing catalogues etc then they would not have accepted it. I would try the secretary again as it could just be an error. Proof of postage is fine so long as it is receipted on or before the closing date of entries, I would think even though you were asked to send it that if it was dated after the entries closed it could possibly cause a problem if you won anything and had to send it to KC. I may not be correct in this but someone else will no doubt clarify this.

Hi Claire, thanks for the thought, but given that the show sec. refers to her husband's conversation with me, I don't think it's an automatic reply. 

I would phone as the husband could not have been more helpful when he realised I was an amateur, but the email from his wife is just so snappy and unapologetic, I feel I'd get a ticking off, not that I've done anything!!!

Thanks JoeC.  good point re. the late entry/KC situation.  Upon thinking, even if I could just turn up on the day, proof of posting in hand, it's a terribly inauspicious way to begin showing Louis, and he wouldn't even be mentioned in the catalogue.  In the event that he did win anything, it would not look very fair on fellow competitors and I don't really want to begin under a cloud.

Rachel :-(

I would if I were you, to just confirm if you are entered at the show, contact the printer as it appears that it was them whom accepted your late entry. If you are everything will be ok & your dog will be entered at the show & in catalogue. If not then your cheque will have to be returned & put it down to experience. Secretaries do have to follow KC rules and are very often stuck between a rock & a hard place trying to please all concerned(been a secretary myself)
I also think that even as you have proof of posting, as it was after the entry closing date then it would not have any clout if you had to use it.

i would play it by ear but i'd see if they cash your cheque?

> i would play it by ear but i'd see if they cash your cheque?

Not all cash cheques before the show. I check my dog account daily & a few years ago i was getting worried as a cheque for an up coming show hadn't been cashed.
I'd booked my ferry & hotel etc so didn't want to arrive at the show to find out my entry hadn't been received so I called the sec and was informed they hadn't banked the cheques and probably won't be till she'd see the treasurer at the show

> Not all cash cheques before the show.

i understand that but if it were me and they cashed the cheque before the show date then i would turn up with my proof of post etc, and if they cash it afterwards i would be on the phone straight away with the proof that they said they wouldnt accept my entry.

Aw, what a shame! I've sent through a fair few late entries over the years and never had one rejected yet. If they have now changed their mind, I guess it can't be helped - look for a nice companion show to enter on the day instead! :-)

Thanks Lucy, the awful thing was that having initially enquired and heard the ansaphone tell me that entries had closed and felt quite happy with this, for the secretary then to ring ME and ask me to enter with NO pleading from me, and then to renege on the arrangement feels very unjust.

The cheque hasn't been cashed, nor the show entry and cheque returned, but as she categorically said that the printers' entry date had closed, I don't hold out much hope. 

Knit one purl one!

If they don't return the cheque, you might want to phone again shortly before the show just to check whether or not you were entered, if the 2nd person said they were returning your entry!

I agree that if you haven't had your cheque returned before the show, I would contact the secretary to see if you are entered would be awful if you were after all entered and you didn't go to the show!

Just an update...I'm going to the show after all!!!!?

I chickened out of contacting the show sec. but didn't receive my entry back as promised, thought nothing more and did find a companion show as recommended, but just by chance checked my bank account and found, with one week to go to the show, that my cheque has just been cashed!

I rung the show secretary as there was no new email to say that I had been entered after all... he said that after the printers deadline, they received a lot of late entries due to a postal delay and decided to put mine thru with them, but that I wouldn't be mentioned in the catalogue.

I'm VERY chuffed but a bit miffed at the same time, it will prove a great test for little Louis before Darlington, but had I not looked at my bank account I wouldn't have turned up - so great advice Joec!  Am I wrong to expect to have been told?  And what about not being entered in the catalogue?  The show sec. assured me that if we won any points for my 'new JW goal' :)  they would count. 

Any thoughts? 

Just so that I can become more organised, is there a general rule of thumb as to how long in advance you apply to a show?  I now have a starprint diary which has dates but not entries accepted by dates - do I have to phone each secretary for these?

TIA! :)

I don't have any experience of late entry not entered in the catalogue but as for this:
Just so that I can become more organised, is there a general rule of thumb as to how long in advance you apply to a show?  I now have a starprint diary which has dates but not entries accepted by dates - do I have to phone each secretary for these?

When you start going to shows you will be picking up schedules at the shows (at champshows go to the Our Dogs and Dog World stands, at open shows there is usually a table with schedules somewhere) and they will always mention last date of entry.

Thanks Marianne - great advice. Once you've attended a show is your address kept on record and a schedule automatically sent the next show or must you always seek them out yourself?

I realise that I sound extremely ungrateful in my update post - I think it must be the most stressful job being a show sec. even without the late entries, and presumably its not paid work.  I do appreciate them trying to accommodate everybody/me! :) 

Dogbiz seems to be just what I need - deadlines and then reminders too, but am I right in thinking that it doesn't have open shows on it?

Once you've attended a show is your address kept on record and a schedule automatically sent the next show or must you always seek them out yourself?

A few open shows or breed shows will post you a schedule the year after, but most shows will not. The easiest option really is to make it a habit to pick schedules up at shows you're attending. :)

Fosse Data http://www.fossedata.co.uk does list open shows although not all; it's entirely up to the organisers whether they pay for the extra service of having their schedule and entries online. There is a site here where you can find open shows as well:
http://www.arenaprint.co.uk/shows.html

I am still pretty new to showing  and I recall one of the early abortive missions :)--having sent in my form and paid the entry fees a day late for an open show I waited for confirmation..and waited..and waited...and ended up not going. It was more embarrassing having to explain to others in the breed why we didn't turn up.

These days I rely on a sad little spreadsheet I have created that lists all the shows I want to go to (eyes bigger than wallet), closing dates which then get a large 'BOOKED' when I have sent off my entry (so now I know where the household budget has gone and so will anyone else who reads it :-O), where it is (vital to have that postcode so I can rely on uncle satnav), who's judging, the classes we've entered and finally...the result. Of course it helps if I check it regularly too, but this year I am a bit more organised.

What I need now is a countdown for trimming so we don't end up doing all nighters.

> These days I rely on a sad little spreadsheet I have created that lists all the shows I want to go to

Oh dear me too.  My shows are colour coded RED - not booked yet; BLUE - booked to do: GREEN - been seen.  I rarely divulge my spreadsheet habit so I'm glad to know I'm not the only one

...I'm convinced there is no other way to ensure I actually remember to enter.  I even have GREY - no way, for shows I've decided not to do but want to remember to check the results.  Oh Lord I should stop writing now - I sound like a loon!!

A friend of mine emails me a copy of the spreadsheet she keeps for agility shows as I am very good at missing the closing date for entries.She has even added a column to show me which shows I have entered and highlights the ones that are closing soon.

Great to hear you are going to the show, would have thougt the sec could have contacted you since they gave you the original info. Good luck let us know how you get on.

I predict a Spreadsheets Anonymous meeting coming to a show near you very soon. We can all be there clutching our colour-coded records, sharing secret geekery and wondering whether it is going just a little too far to spreadsheet results for your dog against his/her competition...and contrary to certain rumours I have NOT done this... yet.

you know what dogs a babe...I believe we have discovered an app for that :)

any one care to share their spread sheets ? it would be very much appreciated :-)

> Oh Lord I should stop writing now - I sound like a loon!!

I have colour coded system too lol - so joining you as a complete loon ;)

If you send me your email by PM I will happily send to you - its an outdated version as my back up which I have forgotten to back up but might help you get going :)

>> These days I rely on a sad little spreadsheet I have created that lists all the shows I want to go to
> Oh dear me too.  My shows are colour coded RED - not booked yet; BLUE - booked to do: GREEN - been seen.  I rarely divulge my spreadsheet habit so I'm glad to know I'm not the only one
>
> ...I'm convinced there is no other way to ensure I actually remember to enter.  I even have GREY - no way, for shows I've decided not to do but want to remember to check the results.  Oh Lord I should stop writing now - I sound like a loon!!

Ditto here :) I have a spread sheet with all the champ shows & some nice open shows, I have them in date order with the judge in the next column, then entry closing, column for a tick for entry sent, and then a notes column(which after the show i put my dogs results in), then a post code column......and this year i've started to incert comments showing how much the entry, fuel, ferry fare & hotel cost! It's scary when you add it all up but it's nice to see how much each show compares.

I would never remember to entry if i didnt have my little sheet & it helps for planning ahead :)

Colour coding is a must :)

if you pm me with you email address I wiull send you a version, that way you can peer review the systems for us...:-)

Another spreadsheet geek here! Not so much for doing entries as I tend to do those as soon as I decide on a show (back in those days when I had a dog to show, sigh), but I do have a spreadsheet for results. One sheet for each dog, listing name of show, date, venue, classes entered, judge, how many in class, and results. Wins are marked in bold, and I have a column for particularly noteworthy things like when Henry beat the breed record holder, or when Ellie beat a JW holder. :-) Must update it again actually, I haven't been putting all my rally trials down on it! Oh yes, and I have a little scrolling announcement thing on our website with the latest results too. Very sad I know!

These sound great for keeping records, I will have to try and design a spreadsheet as this is a good idea well done all who use them never really thought about doing this!

joec I hate to say this but apart from being a great way to kill spare time of an evening (I find it especially useful as a diversion from the more tedious work that comes my way), once you have designed your masterpiece your life will never be quite the same again...and for the rest of us, I hope we are all feeling quite relieved by now that in certain quarters we can pass ourselves off as normal.

If so many are doing this, and it's that good, then surely there must be a way to get the databases online for others to see, share or add to?

LOl at JAY15!!!