I have 2 Cocker x Bichon Frise pups, 14 weeks old and they are great off the lead, coming when called etc, its just when they are on the lead, they pull constantly. They are brother and sister and quite often the bitch will attack her brother when walking, much rougher than when they play fight.  This makes walking them together really difficult as you have to pull them apart and tighten the leads so that the cant get at each other. The fighting usually happens on the way home when they should be worn out from all the running around on the beach or at the park. But even that doesnt stop them.

When they play fight at home it can be really rough and last for quite a while, but they both keep going back for more.  Any idea's please??
They are great in every other respect. Travelling in the car, night times and the toilet training is going well too.

I am going to try the "stop walking when they pull" technique, but that took forever to get home tonight and ruined what had started off as a lovely evening walk in the sunset on shore.

Thanks

Ponge

Walk them separately. They need to be trained individually before you start walking them together.

Unless you're used to having multiple dogs it's almost always a mistake to have two pups at the same time, and good breeders wouldn't consider selling two to the same person; two pups at the same time is a nightmare.

What you need to do is treat each pup as if it was the only one; walk it alone, train it alone etc. So that's twice the work of a single puppy. Then you also have to train them together - so that's three times the work. For each 5 minutes the pups spend together they need to spend 15 minutes apart and with you. So most of the day they need to be kept apart - they can sleep together for company.

I assume you'll be having the male pup castrated before his sister comes into season?

Littermates will always compete with each other, wanting to be first (whether it is on a lead, when going out the door, when eating etc) -I have 9 year old littermates that STILL do it and STILL are very difficult to walk together -despite having gone to training classes on separate nights etc etc. I currently have 13 week old toy pups and they compete a lot, fight with each other and I am basically counting the days until there will only be one left so life will be easier. In the meantime it means separate walks etc just like JG has described. It's no fun at all having littermates -I've done it several times, never by choice. You get a much closer bond with a single pup and it is much easier to train.

ive had two pups together lots of times over the years and they have grown up well ajusted happy puppys i have 3 together at the moment all have won at champ show level they are never kept in a cage they would all live together if they were in the wild put up barriers and you make problems give them space they learn to be good with other dogs and mind there manners you never see my dogs at shows or any were being shy or agressive. its often only dogs that are like this.bring up your pups as youwould your children be firm be fair be kind you will not go far wrong.have used t his method for forty years i despair when i look at some dogs today. its not there fault its there owners they spoil there dogs let them run riot  feed them wrong then wonder why the dog has on respet for them now you can all shoot me down

In response to Langridge :-I think you have been lucky and obviously have expierience with pups but someone who has not will find it hard to do as you have done. All you have done in your post is to shoot down those trying to give good advice to someone who is struggling. Try giving some constructive advice.

I to would walk these pups seperatly untill you have some control over them. Teach them to walk properly on a lead singly first then try small trips together. Let them play together for short periods and if the play fighting gets too rough split them for a time out till they calm down again.
Good luck, it will be hard work but hopefully you will get there in the end 14 weeks is very young to expect good behaviour from litter mates.
Aileen

At 14 weeks they should still be on very short walks, and for experience not exercise.  If you have two puppies egging each other on then there is no doubt they will be receiving more exercise than they need at this age.  Remember it's only 5 mins per month of life.

It's easier now than it will ever be to walk and train them separately as the sessions will be quite short.  If you intend to walk them at the same time try asking your partner/OH to walk in one direction whilst you go in another.

Two of my dogs meet up quite often with their sisters and the youngest (nearly 12 months) are only just starting to do their own thing when in each others company.  Partly because my boy is a sleeper and his sister wears him out!  These are puppies that haven't been raised together but it's clear they are very tuned in to each other, sometimes to the exclusion of the rest of us.  These two would play fight for ages if we let them, but we don't.  Allow short play sessions then separate beds or a distraction. 

> give them space they learn to be good with other dogs and mind there manners you never see my dogs at shows or any were being shy or agressive. its often only dogs that are like this

What rubbish!

Funny how 99% of the dogs that have had a go at my dog, have been in 2s or 3s. Being a part of a pack of dogs has not socialsed them to anything other than thier own pack.

Think it all depends of whether you want to have pet animals or a zoo - if you want pets then they must must socialise and bond with you, a human, as advised by 99.9% of those replying to you, if you want a zoo then let them do their own thing.

There is a reason why a responsible breeder will not let two pups go to a home together they are not doing it for there own good but for that of the pups and the pups owners, two may double the fun but they will quadruple the work and problems encountered unless you are very experienced or do not want your dogs to be your family pets. Think about it, find a good home for a pup and it would be great to have that home take two or more of your precious pups but breeders know this does not work so will not allow it.

no i am not rubbish i have wellbehaved  lovely dogs and every one remarks onwhat nice people my dogs are  and i can prove it in my experice its it is often only dogs that are a problem and i never said they are never walked alone they are they go every were in the first few months shops .town.woods car why are you so down on anyone because your views are differnt to theirs .i do not have my dogs fighting with others

> no i am not rubbish i have wellbehaved  lovely dogs and every one remarks onwhat nice people my dogs are

I never said you were rubbish. I said the statement from you that 'only' dogs are ill-mannered, agressive dogs was rubbish.

My dog is extremely friendly and patient he is also very non-reactive to dogs that have a go at him, his behaviour is always remarked on - how friendly and patient he is, how well behaved he is - he is an 'only' dog.
The most socialble, well-rounded dog I have ever met is an 'only' dog, a tiny, little yorkie that can meet any sized dog without even a hint of lack of confidance. Being an 'only' dog is not at the route of dog:dog behaviour problems - lack of socialisation is, but that equally applies to dogs from a multi-dog household.

no i do not have a zoo they are very tuned in to me neither do i let them do there own thing   i never said it was not hard work i am a good breeder  vet my homes with care and on certain times have let two puppies go together  to the right homes  this person has already got two puppies so it has to be dealt with how well behaved do you expect them to be at fourteen weeks there babies you are all very quick to judge people perhaps you shold be a little more open minded i have had dogs now for over 40yrs and love all mine to bits have watched a lot of posts and often find people very dogmatic with there opions  why not help and stop putting people down  because yourviews do not agree with thers

i never said all only dogs are are aproblem but they often are beause they have never learned to be around other dogs and yes 2snd 3 can be apain. but mine do things together and apart from the word go yes its time cosuming but if you do not want to spend time together why have them and then put them in a cage when its to much.and i think we often expect far to much to soon from our babies it all takes time

they fight at that stage because they all hyped up from running around try giving them a cooling down period before putting them back on the leadsit quiet with them for aminute give eachsomthing to hold to hold there attention walk quickly with them with one in each hand they are very young to be doing lead work

As others have said I would stick to walking, training and spending time with you seperately for these 2 pups.  Litter mates tend to bond with each other more than their owner so if you don't take the time to do all these things seperately you may struggle later in life with them.

As for the other comment about the amount of dogs you own - I own multiple dogs (never litter mates as I wouldn't subject myself to that lol) and they are very well socialised and no problem because I have put the work in.  However I know many only dogs that are also perfectly behaved and more than likely better trained because the owner only has to concentrate on that 1 dog.  So it all depends on what the owners put in as to what they get out.

Langridge you now seem to be saying that it is best to exercise separately and not to let play get out of hand so rather than not agree with you, we do concur, the only bone of contention being your first post that seemed to suggest that the rest of the posts were wrong and the sort of advice being given was rubbish.

Add to that the fact you are experienced and the OP is not and that will tell you why the advice given is with the best intentions and far more helpful than the suggestion that the pups can get on with it and somehow turn out fine, you and I know that will not happen. As to your suggestion that pups bought up single are the ones that cause problems is, well, just not true.

no wwhat i said was i do both they do  have play which is rough they also have to stop when i say thats how they learn to behave i never said you were all wrong and i never used the word rubbish that was what you said about me she has 2 puppys now so she needs to find the best way foward and i dont thinkkeeping them separte is helpful nor did i say they can just get on with it i spend a lot of time with my dogs and would suggest any one does the same and i repeat single dogs can be a problembecause they dont no how to behave around other  not alll dont no why you feel so sensitive about that im not over havingmore than one bringing uppuppys is not brain surgrey just a good dose of common sense

i repeat single dogs can be a problembecause they dont no how to behave around other 

That is nonsense unless the owner has not spent time working with them when they are puppies. Which is what we are saying, you need time to spend with each puppy, and of course they can play together it is that they need training apart and together, you seem to be deliberately misunderstanding what is being said and making statements that have no foundation in facts.

Ok I have 4 dogs, 2 bitches,2 males none are litter mates and ages range from 11 years to just over 12months. Owning a multidog household is bloomin' hard work but great fun too!! Provided certain rules are followed at certain points I find. When pups are young they get walked once a day with the "pack" and one a day with mefor some 1-2-1 time. It's hard work but tough luck as I decided to own several dogs so time must be given to all individuals just like kids.

Rough and tumble can occur but only for about 5mins and not too rough as this can be where naughty behaviours are learnt, but dogs do like to play but no major growling or mouthing. Play has rules and 2 puppies couldn't possibly be expected to teach each other the rules of dog play,just like kids at play group need adults to teach them social niceties.

Litter mates can really be a hand full and I don't like to see clients with litter mates but sometimesit works out really well, each case is different. So try some separation and interupt play that gets too rough and use house lines if needed to prevent too much boisterous behaviour.

I can see on the forum today some very strong posting, lets all take a breath and remember that we are here to help each other and that differing opinions and thinking or even trying them out are how we improve life for dogs and owners!!

Must be the summer holidays getting to us all!!! We need a diet coke break!! ; )

Please can we keep to the OP question.
Thanks,
Jeff.

The single BEST piece of advice I can give you would be to return one of these puppies to the breeder or otherwise rehome to a responsible home.

After that, walk seperately, train seperately and only allow them to be together when closely supervised and ideally kept busy doing things with you rather than free for all play. A little play is ok, but just as you wouldn't leave a pair of toddlers together and expect to find the house still standing, or expect them to learn anything useful, the same applies with same age puppies.

All that work you do with them seperately then you need to repeat with them together, or you end up with two dgos who behave nicely apart, and are a nightmare when together.

So thats three times the work of one puppy - do you ACTUALLY have athe time for this?

For walking, if you are teaching loose leash walking, well to start with DONT set out for a long proper walk, thats running before you can walk. Do short five/ten minute sessions (which is the absolute MAX they should have at this age anyway) and JUST focus on loose leash walking - forget actually GOING anywhere now.

Also its generally better to do an about turn than just stop, unless you combine stopping with some sort of treat based motivation to come to your side, as at this age puppies will be too interested in their surroundings to notice where you are without some incentive. (The 'stop' method I find is not that great with adult dogs either, its too frustrating for humans and its not clear enough for the dog).

Hi Landridge
Just a quick update, the pups are now 11 months old, still pull on the lead and play fight, but are adorable and wonderful in equal measure.  They come back off the lead whenever called and love the beach.

Litter mates might not be the best idea but they have brouht liht and love into our lives.

Thank you for your support.

Lookin forward to their 1st birthday next month.

Ponge