Can someone please tell me if it is illegal in the UK, for the Breeder to administer vaccinations to their puppies? 

I recently bought a puppy that was vaccinated by the breeder.  When I took the pup to the vet just to get her checked over, he informed me that it was illegal for the breeder to do that and the piece of paper I had was a photocopy of a medical card with the vaccination stickers, stuck to that.  So based on that fact the paperwork I had meant nothing and I needed to have the puppy vaccinated again.

If it is illegal then I would like to go back to the breeder and ask for the money for the vaccinations back.

I have tried to find something/anything on the internet that states it illegal but cannot actually find anything.

Any help would be great, Thanks.

No it's not illegal, in fact some breeders do the first jab as a matter of course, and there's no reason you should have needed to get both jabs done again if you had a photocopy showing it had been done. I think your vet is either an idiot or dishonest and wanted the money out of you!

In the UK vaccinations must be administered by a fully-qualified vet, so a breeder can only give the first vaccinations themselves if they are themselves a vet. They can get a vet to do it for them, of course. It's illegal for a non-qualified person to do them.

Well, shes only had the first one done again so far. The other one is due in 2 weeks...  But, I did notice that the date on the original vaccine sticker had 26 April 2010... So it concerns me a little that it would appear to have been out of date. 

Thanks for your reply, Im driving myself nutts here, as I dont really want to be pumping more stuff into the dog than is necessary.

Thanks Jeangenie

Is there anywhere, where I can actually read this point on the internet?  That you know of.

Ah, I assumed you meant the breeder had had the pup vaccinated by a vet before you bought the dog. So the breeder gave the vaccine? And if so how did they get hold of it? If the breeder isn't a vet and they did it themselves then yes it is illegal.

You'd probably be best to contact the RCVS.

A non-qualified person administering an out-of-date vaccination .... seems a bit iffy to me.

I wonder if she's photocopied an old cert and given it to you as proof, so she could charge more for the pup. Sorry about my first post, I need to read things more carefully before I reply to them! lol

Yes very iffy... Only just noticed the date while looking at it this morning. 

I did contact the breeder and was told that himself and many breeders administer the vaccinations themselves because the vets charge such high prices.  Also that the vet is only saying that cause hes not getting the money himself.

Of course, Im prepared to argue this point with the breeder but wanted to make sure I have my facts straight before I go after him.

No, original stickers are on it, but the paper its stuck to is a copy of a medical card, not an actual original card.  But the stickers are real.  If that makes sense. lol

Click on point 11, Vaccination of companion animals -it's a pdf document and it clearly says the vet has to prescribe the vaccine and a vet, VN or vet student has to administer it. The vet has to examine the animal first and generally has to witness the vaccination being given if it is done by a nurse or student.
http://www.rcvs.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/advice-notes/

Thanks for that peeps.  I was just reading that section as you suggested it.  I have now saved it and will be contacted the breeder again, telling him I have proof and take it from there.

Appreciate all your help.

Definitely illegal.  I know of someone who was done a few years ago for doing it.  I didn't know and gave her name to someone who was interested in a pup, when we both looked on the web for her details the first thing that came up was her being taken to court!!

> Well, shes only had the first one done again so far. The other one is due in 2 weeks...  But, I did notice that the date on the original vaccine sticker had 26 April 2010... So it concerns me a little that it would appear to have been out of date. 
>
> Thanks for your reply, Im driving myself nutts here, as I dont really want to be pumping more stuff into the dog than is necessary.

chances are the pup was not given vaccinations by the breeder as getting hold of the drugs would not be easy- printing off stickers and photcopying bits of card is very easy.  the breeder would have known full well it is illegal to vaccinate DIY as these are POM drugs which the vet is not going to hand out or write a prescription for so I wouldn't hold your breath regarding getting money back.   trading standard may well be interested though.

Illegal yes.  Common for breeders in the UK to get hold of vaccines and administer themselves - you may be surprised at how many actually do.  Ireland is the popular shopping ground for the vaccines, and other medications that in the UK can only be obtained by prescription.

> I did contact the breeder and was told that himself and many breeders administer the vaccinations themselves because the vets charge such high prices.

I know Lots of breeders and none of them vaccinate themselves!

I know the chances are slim... very slim, in fact.

However, she will be having her 2nd shot in 2 weeks, and she was given a clean bill of health.  So happily the pup is fine and happily terrorising my parents (which is who I bought her for).

In the meantime, I am waiting for a reply to my message, left for the breeder this morning, and if I dont receive a response by Tuesday at the latest, I will be taking the matter further.  I may not get the money back but maybe I will get what he has done stopped, for future buyers of any of his pups.

>Common for breeders in the UK to get hold of vaccines and administer themselves

Common for non-reputable breeders, perhaps - the ones whose breeding practices are themselves dubious. Unfortunately we all know there are far too many people like this. :-( No responsible, reputable breeder would do it.

I agree!

Sometimes I think Im on another planet when I read some of the posts here and elsewhere. :-(

It is illegal for a lay person to vaccinate puppies themselves.  You need to contact the Veterinary Medical Directorate which is part of Defra (they are based in Surrey). They are responsible for the control of POMs and other matters. You need to write or email with photos copies of the vaccine certificate because the VMD can determine from the batch numbers (stickers from the vaccine phials) who has been allocated the vaccine.  I would not tell the breeder this as all evidence will be removed post haste if guilty of malpractice. 

It is very irresponsible as well as illegal for breeders to to obtain and administer vaccine themselves (can be obtained and purchased from Eire over the counter) it is a controlled POM needs to be kept under controlled conditions and a vaccine sold for sale in one area may not be suitable to be used in another. 

The only time a lay person can be given the responsibilty to administer vaccine is if they are trained and operating under the direction of a vet (this can occur sometimes if a vet feels that a farmer with livestock is responsible and capable this is then called a herding system) but the vet takes full responsibity.  It does not legally occur for dog breeders.      

Sorry here is the link - http://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/

Did you buy the puppy directly from the breeder?  Just wondering if it has possibly been bred in Ireland.

Thanks for that info Pat, I will speak to them this morning.  I am currently arguing with the breeder about this subject and as far as he is concerned he has done nothing wrong.

ok so he thinks illegal ok... point out that NO reputatable boarding kennel would have accepted his paperwork as proof of vaccination so would mean that pup couldn't be boarded. for a lot of folk that is main reason they vaccinate - so dog can go into kennels when needed.

I agree with Stooge.

It may be that this man is just a dealer and buys in pups for resale.
Did you see mother, littermates, evidence that pups were actually bred there?

Yeah I saw the parents and her brothers and sisters, I have no doubt that he was a genuine breeder.. But as far as hes concerned they have always done it this way and doesnt see a problem.  So wont give me the money back for the 2nd set of injections I have to pay for.  Even though I pointed out that the date on the sticker was actually out of date anyway, besides the issue that it was illegal to start with.

> It is illegal for a lay person to vaccinate puppies themselves.  You need to contact the Veterinary Medical Directorate which is part of Defra (they are based in Surrey).

Unfortunately the VMD does not often act on reports.  On people vaccinating illegally, or products.  There are a multitude of products on the market freely available in the UK and sold at shows that break all the VMD rules on veterinary claims but they do nothing to clamp down on the companies producing and labeling them.

Harkback, sorry cannot agree they do act (maybe selective) but what they do not do is report back automatically to the informant.  Therefore you have to follow up your complaint asking for an update.  I have had need to contact on various occassions and I do know that providing the evidence is submitted they will take it seriously and act on information received.

Reading your message perhaps complacency has taken hold and the assumption is drawn not worth reporting when in fact if matters are not reported how can they be rectified? I would suggest you report back to them with evidence on what you have witnessed.    

After the recent travesty in Essex...involving horrific abuse of and cruelty to pigs by Slaughter Men....and Defra ruling that they couldn't prosecute because Animal Aid has used undercover filming (regarded by them as trespass)....then I am even disinclined to have any faith in Defra publications now....

These big organisations are all Hand in Glove with each other....including the RCVS...so if it were Me...I would be conducting My own research...and if it were My puppy...I would be Titer Testing rather than arguing the toss about money...and subjecting My little one To unneccessary risk....

I have done just as you suggested FreedomOfSpirit.

I have conducted my own research and spoke to the manufacturer of the vaccine.  The vaccine used is not registered to the UK and would have either come from Ireland or USA.  Also seeing as the vaccine was over a year out-of-date they advised me to have the dogs injections done again.   Which was done again anyway last week, the 2nd shot being done next week. So, pup is covered and healthy.  I did think about the Titer test but the vet advised just to do the shots again and have done with it.  I could have insisted on the test but in reality I was more concerned with making sure she was protected.  The last thing I wanted was for a gift that I had given to my parents to have gone tragically wrong and only ended up in heartache, just because I decided to wait for a test result.

I guess at the end of the day, I can put this down to a learning experience and I only hope that the breeder takes himself off for an education lesson in puppy vaccinations and what the current UK law states. However, having said that I doubt very much that he will.

They buy the vaccines over the counter in Southern Ireland I was told by a nurse who lives there and vaccinates her own dogs. When she was working in the UK she would go home for a holiday then bring back the vaccines and give them to her dogs. So it can be done.

> So it can be done.

Yes, of course it can be done. It's still illegal for an unqualified person to do though.

Just thought I would update this thread and bring it to a conclusion.

I did infact contact VMD and spoke to them about this subject.  I am pleased to say that it was dealt with, and the breeder has now been educated as to the current UK law and whats not allowed.  I am hoping that he takes the education on board and does not vaccinate pups in the future. 

Thanks to every one for their advice and thoughts, it was very helpful and put me in the right direction.

Thats good to hear...

And as an aside I understand DEFRA was stripped of its powers of prosecution due to failing to act over the slaughter-house case I mentioned...

Pleased to hear the VMD could help I have pointed people in the direction  of the VMD many times and contacted them myself when I have knowledge of malpractice over the illegal use of vaccine. The fact that it is easilly available from Eire does not help but that is no excuse for its illegal use. It is a POM and must be used only by a qualified person. A vaccine that is manufactured and distributed for use in one area maynot be suitable to be used in another, placing the puppy at risk.