Sorry if the title is a bit misleading but I couldn't think of what else to write. We've currently got an 11 week old spaniel, had him for 3 weeks.
Something that is becoming a huge problem is that he is being really aggressive and we just don't know how to stop him. He will be playing along nicely, or chewing his chew when he will decide that he wants to chew someone's leg or clothes or a blanket, and when we try to stop him he pulls even harder, bites our hands and growls at us. The only way to stop him then is to leave the room or to put him in another room behind the baby gate. We have tried saying no, leave it and giving him another chew or a toy but he doesn't seem interested at all. Once he starts he's fixated and its impossible to get him off us without coming out covered in bite marks and sometimes we need someone else to help get him off. The main problem with this is that it really, really hurts and we can't have him around other family members such as elderly people or children at the moment. I'm not saying he's being aggressive, because he is only 11 weeks and probably doesn't know what it is so isn't trying to be, maybe he's just playing. It's strange though because it just comes out of nowhere and there is no getting through to him! It's just becoming a huge problem and we need to stop it before he gets bigger and starts hurting more but we don't know how to. Please some advice on how to deal with this? Thanks.

If pups haven't been taught good manners by their dam/litter mates because they were seperated too early then they will carry on like this and not take no for an answer. If you do a search on here this topic comes up alot.

Litter mates will yelp if bitten too hard and stop any play fighting they were doing so we humans have to do the same, it can be harder for some pups to learn than others. I think I read the other day that this behaviour is worse when they are tired so need time out and a nap as soon as it starts.

We have had several spaniels over the years and not had a problem with them biting in this way.

Thanks, we do find that he does it more when he is tired! But sometimes he does it when he's only been awake half an hour or so, so I don't know if he's tired or not? We usually put him in the dining room where he then settles or in his crate and he goes to sleep. He was with his litter until 8 weeks. We have got another dog who is 7 who tells him off, but the puppy does not listen to him and just answers back, and then when the 7 year old goes too far we have to seperate them because at the moment the puppy is too small if the 7 year old hurts him. It's just making us lose confidence a little with him when he behaves like that, the previous dog only did it when my 16 year old sister (when she was 9) but now our puppy is doing it to all of us. He seems to be able to tell that me and my sister are less confident with him.

> the only way to stop him then is to leave the room or to put him in another room behind the baby gate.

You have the solution right there! When he gets too worked up and goes into bitey mode either remove yourself or him from the room, if your are consistent he will eventually learn that rough play gets him nothing. At 11 weeks he probably doesn't know what 'leave it' means yet so its a waste of time saying that at this stage

I always think one of the problems with puppies is that they don't speak English. It is no good telling them anything because they just don't understand words until you have had time to teach them. Whilst you are doing that make sure if the pup does something you don't like such as biting you remove yourself immediately, if the result of his biting you is that your go away then he will soon learn that there is no point in biting as it has the opposite effect to what was wanted, he wants to play and you leave the room. Snatch your hand or foot away say no and go, return in a few moments and if all is calm reward the pup and resume giving him attention.

My puppy is now 16 weeks and starting to realise that she must be gentle with us - if she bites us as hard as she would another dog then we we shout "Ouch!" (we don't yelp - we found that excited her!) and leave the room. She's learning that hard bites = end of fun and no attention. Gentle mouthing means the attention and play continues. It's worst when she's over-excited or over-tired or hungry; you can see an expression of desperation come into her eyes - she really doesn't know what to do with herself so just goes manic. At times like this she needs to be put in a quiet place with a bone to chew and calm down.

>The only way to stop him then is to leave the room or to put him in another room behind the baby gate.

Exactly my experience too!

She's the first puppy we've had who's had squeaky toys to play with, and she's the one whose taken longest to learn to be gentle. I'm convinced that squeaky toys (where the fun starts when you bite hard and get a noise) confuse them and make the learning process longer. Does your puppy have squeaky toys?

Each week you'll notice that he's getting better and better, especially once you can take him out for short walks.

He only has two squeaky toys but doesn't tend to play with them as much. He prefers his rubber bone, rope toy and chew and balls.
Maybe it is because he doesn't know what to do with himself. Or that he doesn't know how to tell us he wants to go to bed.
At first he was only doing it to my sister probably because he knows she's the youngest but now he's started doing it with me and my mum too, the only person he doesn't do it to is my dad. Also, a family member came to see to him for us when we were out for a few hours yesterday and he did it to her.. she understands that he's only a puppy but I don't want him to do it to someone elderly or a child and then them be scared of him, which is why we want to stop him doing it asap.

You're dealing with a very normal puppy who is in his 'baby shark' period and developing confidence.

I notice that your dad isn't having the same problem but that you, your mum, and sister are.  Who is the primary carer for the puppy?  Are your parents working during the week?

The difficulty that you can have in a household when several people are looking after the puppy is that you might all be tackling things in a different way.  Did you have a read of The Bite Stops Here, the article that was recommended on your previous thread?  Perhaps you could print it off for the other family members and discuss, as a group, how you want to deal with the puppy.

There are a number of very good books, and training classes will help enormously.  Perhaps you and your sister could take the puppy if your parents are busy.  Would that work?  A good trainer will teach you to teach the puppy.  Training a puppy takes time and you can't give up too quickly - after all, you've only had him 3 weeks :)

>which is why we want to stop him doing it asap.

As long as you remember that asap will probably be several weeks ...

How many were in the litter? How old was the pup when removed from mum? What time of day does it happen? More so after feeds?? Also are you playing with tug toys as these tend to encourage overly rough play, put them to 1 side until pup is older and knows the play rules.

Don't forget gundogs can be more mouthy than other breeds it's normal for them, but try playing some seeking games when the pup isn't in mouthy mode to keep energy levels down and as others have said either you or pup leaves room when it "witching hour" starts. I use a crate for timeouts but the pup is never placed in the crate in a rough manner always done firmly but fairly no talking or shouting, as pups are usually tired when these little witching hours take over. 

If pups haven't been taught good manners by their dam/litter mates because they were seperated too early then they will carry on like this and not take no for an answer.

That's not always the case -it can happen anyway. I currently have a litter of four puppies, they will be 11 weeks old on Monday, the entire litter is still here, and they are still with their mum plus mixing with dad, gran, half sister, two unrelated small dogs and one unrelated MUCH bigger dog. They don't take no for an answer either. It's quite scary/interesting/funny/whatever to watch a 1 kg pup tug and chew on a 23 kg Malinois' tail, get growled at, pay no attention, get snapped at, and STILL pay no attention! Thankfully the Mali is very sensible, an experienced mother herself, so wouldn't go over the top and is of course never left alone with them.  But it doesn't matter who they go over the top with and get told off by -one of their own breed, one of a different breed, each other, or people -they carry on regardless. It's just the temperament they were born with.

Genetics will out.

A bitey puppy is not naughty or aggressive, that is how puppies play, we just can't take such rough housing, but puppies don't know that, they don't naturally understand English or any other human communication.

Other dogs are also much better at teaching puppies restraint.

Avoid puppy getting over excited and over tired, walk away or make like a tree before things get OTT.

It's staring to get better now. When he did it yesterday we said no really firmly then left the room, and he looked kind of sad and then sulked a bit so we think he is starting to understand that it's wrong now! Well our older dog just grumbles at him and the puppy just answers back, then sometimes he tells him off a bit too much and we separate them at that point in case someone gets hurt. Our older dog has never hurt another dog, just has a very loud bark and because he is big can look a bit scary but the pup isn't scared of him in the slightest.

>then sometimes he tells him off a bit too much and we separate them at that point in case someone gets hurt.

Your older dog probably knows exactly how far he can go; a telling-off that works looks and sounds far worse to us than it actually is. It's important not to tell off your older dog for telling off the annoying little upstart - just take the puppy away from him.

>Our older dog has never hurt another dog, just has a very loud bark and because he is big can look a bit scary but the pup isn't scared of him in the slightest.

Dogs understand dog language (vocal and body language) far better than we do!

Others have mentioned 'The Bite Stops Here', well worth a read :)

When he gets told off by your other dog does he react as if he has hurt him? Some pups need more telling than others.

My young male flips on his back and plays dead if he over steps the mark with the older one and gets growled at but his sister and the other 2 girls totally ignore any growling from him and he shuts up without taking things further.

agree with JJ . Our puppy is 15wks old and has for the last week near enough stopped the hard nipping , the mouthing of the hands has now become light gripping but I can sympathise as it is a difficult time to get through when all you want to do is cuddle and kiss this cutey pup then he turns around and gives you a nasty  nip.
I decided to remove him from the room rather than leave the room... as I was getting no where ..this seems to have done the trick as the shock of whipping him up and placing him in a room alone for 2 minutes  was something he disliked immensely.
I also took note from one of my older bitches who would stop deadly still when he was nipping her playfully , he would stop and step away then stare at her then walk off , she would then continue doing whatever she was doing and ignore him.
I gave this a try , when he gripped my hand or leg/feet I would stop not pull away or walk and he stopped and walked off I do think this is what has helped with the demise of this period of owning a new puppy.

He's been really bad today. Just took him for a walk (about 100m so it wasn't long at all) and we got back into the garden, he played and then when I took his harness of he was grabbing my hands and then starting grabbing my legs and growling at me. There is no way to control him except holding his jaw and then somebody had to come and get him off me :( It's horrible because he had stopped doing it as much but has done it about 3 times to me today, not sure about other people!

> There is no way to control him except holding his jaw

Holding his jaw can make him worse, he'll either think you are playing with him so carry on, or there is also a chance that he'll be a bit nervous of it and increase his playing in an attempt to calm you down or even worse, feel the need to defend himself from you.

Keep a lead on him (or keep a lead handy to pop on him when you need to), when he's biting you hold the lead and calmly lead him to the kitchen/his crate (or whereve is a quite, safe place for him to be left on his own for a few mins). When he has clamed down, let him back out, if, if he starts again (he probably will :) ), repeat.

My pup was a complete monster with his play-biting, but he was large enough to knock me to the floor and chew on my head I would lead him to the kitchen by his collar untill he had calmed down  (he could still reach my arms to chew though - that's why I suggest using a lead for your pup, as you have to be able to ignore having your arms chomped on if you hold the collar).

A couple of tips -
Keep calm.
Don't say anything or make any noises. If you are going to say 'no', don't be over-firm with it (or you could make pup play harder in an attempt to calm you).
Don't flap about or get paniked (it will make you much more fun for the pup to platy with!)
Don't be frightened. Your pup is being a pup, and one that seems to enjoy the rough stuff. You CAN get through this and end up with a well behaved dog, but it requires lots of patience.

Chin up :)

After taking him for a walk he should have been encouraged to have a nap as going out not only tires them physically but mentally too as there are so many new things to see and sniff at, playing in the garden after the walk has made him over tired and he has become snappy again.

I agree that holding the muzzle isn't a good idea as when he struggles loose he is likely to snap at the hand that was holding him. He will need his mouth/teeth checked throughout his life so needs to be happy with that not worry every time a hand goes near his face.

He will be teething soon if not already and the chewing will get worse for a few weeks, what I do is get either several rope toys or cheap tea towels[knot them along their length] dampen them and put in the freezer,when frozen give it to the pup to chew on[don't play tug of war ]having several you can swap them over when no longer frozen, this will help cool any sore gums as well as giving him something he is allowed to chew on.

Just be patient it will come in time and following the guide lines in that article mentioned will help you work towards it.

He does sound very like my first GSD pup - my first pup and everyone said I was imagining it.  She used to get very wild and bite and race around seemingly without any self control - like she couldn't help herself.  I asked around and everyone said it was 'normal' but it didn't seem normal to me.  Vet suggested I take her back (not an option) and then suggested I change her food - that her puppy food could be making her hyper.  I changed to tinned tripe with a cereal mixer.  What a difference!  No more 'attacks', calm puppy - well as calm as a 3 month old GSD can be!  No more biting and tearing round till she was exhausted.  We had a slight hiccup when she ate loads of cat biscuits but otherwise a normal puppy.  So worth checking the food.

Interestingly after - a number of people said how much their pups calmed down when they moved to adult food - perhaps not the extreme behaviour my pup expressed, but it may affect more than we know

Totally backup what mastifflover has said.Using yourhand on the muzzle is going to create an even more frustrated pup who will learn to run in and dogde away from hands but to bite harder. Or a pup who simply waits for the hand to move then sink teeth into it or nearest item. Indoor training line is needed to help you control the pup when the witching hour starts. It's not personal it's just a lively pup, some are naturally more mouthy than others.

@PennyGC, this is exactly how our pup is.
It is like he can't control himself and just bites away at our ankles, trousers and hands when we try to remove him. The only way he stops is if we leave the room he's in or put him back in his room and he only stops then because he can't get to us. But that's not an option when we are in the car or on a walk.. I will suggest to my mum about changing the food, but got no idea what other food we could give him that will give him all the vitamins etc he needs?
We were with a friend last night who trains dogs and she saw this happening, he was playing with another dog but then got too excited and started tugging at her jeans and growling. She said it was normal puppy behaviour. Today though he's been really bad, he's been in the room next to the living room and we've been in here and just keeps crying but whenever we go through to let him out he's all grabby. We don't know whether he wants attention but when we try to play he's been really stroppy so we just have to leave him again. Think he's going through the teething stage now though so it's probably going to get worse :(

Just out of interest, what sort of spaniel is he? Is he from working or show lines?

He is a show cocker. He's really stroppy today, we've tried everything, played with him, cuddled him, been out in the garden (but he doesn't want to go because it's raining). He's had his food now and is calming down a little hopefully he will go to sleep now and be in a better mood when he wakes up. But it's always bad timing he has his food at 2, goes in the garden then goes to bed and then people arrive home from work and he wakes up and then because he's too tired he gets snappy etc. But we can't stop him from waking up because our other dog goes crazy, so this one does too!

Can you alter his lunchtime to one o'clock so that he's not still tired when people come home?

What's his usual routine? (Trust me, I understand what you're going through because my current pup has been the bitiest I've ever had, but she's definitely getting much better!)

got no idea what other food we could give him that will give him all the vitamins etc he needs?


well before we had all the current food pups what did they eat??  My pup did great on tinned tripe and cereal mixer (not biscuit) so I'd strongly recommend taking him off puppy food and trying something else - it made all the difference to my pup

Are you taking him to a good puppy socialising class? it helps to share struggles with other owners and also you are reassured by the trainer and other owners :)

Ensure the class is very well run, look for Puppy School or someone from the APDT for example.

My dog was a very mad, bitey crazy pup and I used:

kibble spread on the floor (this doesn't reward, but does distract and prevent formation of bad habits when pup is extremelybitey for example, when you are coming downstairs).

Use of tuggie toy, wiggled so pup goes for that and not your body

3 strikes and you're out - so each time the pup bites, say "ah" fairly neutrally, and take out (or go out yourselves). Wait for about 30 seconds to 1 minute and go back in. Repeat if necessary. The third time, repeat but pup stays out for about 15 minutes. This is NOT a punishment but the time away from each other enables both parties to calm down.I use this for very bitey puppies and frazzled owners!

Encourage and praise the correct and wanted behaviour - very important :)

Be consistent and the pup should improve around 20 weeks or so (mine was 22 weeks and now has fab bite inhibition).

Watch the diet - has anyone mentioned this?
Sometimes it's not just colourings, sugars etc but the actual diet itself. Ie the pup is intolerant (behaviourally, as it were) to certain foods and if the diet is altered, the biting may be less - well, bitey! It's normal but sometimes diet change can help (try a different protein etc, for example from beef to fish...).

Lindsay
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