I have a 2year old GSD. He is a beautiful dog with a fantastic temperament. Not typical of GSDs - is always friendly with anyone he meets. Everyone loves Reggie.
i have a 3 year old son and the 2 of them are best friends. They play together all the time - never unsupervised I hasten to add. I have to say Reggie probably has far more patience than me!!! I have always been a little wary when friends come round with their children. Not because I thought Reggie would bite but he can be a bit boisterous and I was always worried about him knocking them over. I usually therefore either put him outside or in his crate when children are around.
He started to kennel guard and would bark and jump at the crate door everytime a child walked past(didn't do it with adults!!).
Yesterday a friend came round with her 15 month old toddler and 4 year old son. Now I have to say Reggie has always barked worse at the 4 year old than any other child that ever comes into the house. I hadn't locked Reggie away but there was a safety gate at the kitchen door so he couldn't come through. My friend took her toddler to greet Reggie and he was absolutely fine. As soon as the 4 year old walked in he started barking (but not aggresively). As the boy walked towards the gate, Reggie jumped up and lunged, snapping at the little boys face. Luckily (if I can say that) he only just caught him on the forehead and didn't puncture the skin.
I was absolutely mortified. He has never shown any signs of agression with people but now I feel scared of him being around children - my own included. He is never left unsupervised with my son but it only takes a split second and as much as I would like to I don't have eyes in the back of my head. My son does play quite roughly with him and it has never been an issue before. As I said he seems to have endless patience where my son is concerned but I can't get out of my head what he did yesterday - completely unprovoked.
the only thing that had crossed my mind was him guarding. When this little boy comes to play (he is my son's best friend- apart from Reggie) they do sometimes fight as kids do but with my son being the youngest and smallest he usually comes off worse and it ends in tears. Could Reggie be sensing this?? Could he just be protecting his family??
My husband was horrified when I told him last night and his instant reaction was the dog has got to go - he can't be trusted. I agree the trust has gone but I have never given a dog up and will only do so as a last resort. I know all dogs have the possibility of biting put its the fact this was unprovoked that has scared me more. I have made an appointment to see the behaviourist at the vets tomorrow but any advice would be welcome. Am I over reacting?? Should I really reconsider keeping him???

Hi

One thing that sticks out by what you have written is that you mention you let your three year old play quite roughly with Reggie.

To Reggie therefore a child is a fun play thing and so when he sees children his excitement level seems be bs heightened and being shut away from the possible play thing will only add to the excitement :-)

I would suggest to start to stop the play with your three year old in the terms of rough play and start to look at making play time a lot calmer so Reggies excitement level is reduced.

That way it will mean that he will hopefully start to see children as a calm type of play mate rather than something he can have rough and tumble with. Reward him for the calm play and gradually when you have other children visit you can gradually over time let him out without any issues.

At Christmas I have 20 dogs in my house, 2 of those are GSD's whom I have trained from pups and brought up with my two sons along with my dog. I also have nieces, nephews, great nieces and nephews, we all have get togethers which include our dogs throughout the year too.

Never, ever, ever would I allow a child to rough house with any dog, you say that you know your dog is being patient, well that is probably an understatement, a dog should be given respect he is not a child's plaything. I would knock that on the head right now.

Perhaps your GSD is protecting your son seeing him hurt and crying would not bode well with any dog, particularly a guarding breed, if your child's friend is a rough player I dare say your GSD does not welcome him.

The simple solution is to keep your GSD behind a dog gate, that way you will not misinterpret your dogs body language. I have always used dog gates, I trust all our family dogs 100% but young children, have high pitched voices, shout, scream, pull, tug, poke any dog could turn, so it is best to keep behind a dog gate when you have visitors with small children. Particularly as they may copy your son and try to rough-house with your dog too.

We mould our dogs to be the personalities that they are by the experiences we give them and how we treat them. I would work on making sure your GSD feels safe and unchallenged. :-)

first of all it IS typical for GSDs to be friendly with everyone.

Secondly your dog is only 2 and still developing, a GSD is not fully mature until 3.

As you are seeing a behaviourist tomorrow I will say no more than you may not need to rehome your dog but you may need to review how you are keeping this dog.  For example where his crate is in relationship to the comings and goings of other people, why he is in a crate at all and understand that dogs may guard small spaces and/or get anxious where there are a lot of comings and goings.

You may also need to consider the "playing together" situation.

At the end of the day, if you cannot make arrangements to ensure the safety of everyone who comes into your house and be relaxed you may need to review what is more important, your dog or the welfare of others.

I see no reason to be overly pessimistic, but most importantly PLEASE PLEASE ensure that the behaviourist you are seeing is a reputable one from an organisation such as the APBC or COAPE, they will only usually see clients via a vet referral.

Unfortunately the term "behaviourist" is not protected and a lot of harm is done by people who do not have the relevant knowledge.

Good luck.

The simple solution is to keep your GSD behind a dog gate,

i thought the dog was behind a gate? i would be a bit miffed at the parent, letting a child walk towards a barking dog is a bad idea, wheter its agression on playing

Beat me to it, just off the phone and realised that very point tina s.

Dog gates are more appropriate to use in segregation as opposed to a crate, a crate is a den a safe haven, if a 2yr old dog still has one not a place to be shut in when visitors arrive and yes the dog is not a zoo animal to go and be looked at by little children, especially when barking or excited, I too do not understand why anyone would take little children towards a dog doing this.

To our OP a shift needs to be made to think of the dog, our two GSD's are the most gentle you could ever meet, also agree most are when brought up well, they are beautiful around children, but they are totally respected by all and our children are kept in check, calm and well behaved around dogs, many dogs really are not comfortable around little children, you need to keep both safe and always put that first, above your own feelings of thinking your dog should be happy to accept what you put in front of him.

Be totally honest with a behaviourist about your home life, to me the dog just needs more respect.

Twinny,

Another add on............ :-)

Sounds like you have a child gate in the kitchen, with a large breed like a GSD you need a proper dog gate, Argos do them. :-) Just make sure that children do not poke fingers through the gate at your boy.

I know that it is difficult with boys they love to play fight, but in front of a dog it's no good, I have two sons and I grew up with 5 brothers, so there is nothing you can tell me about how boys play, but when we were in the same room as our dogs or even in view we were not allowed to play fight, it will either make a dog wish to join in, which can certainly hurt a child, or feel intimidated and wish to get away, which can cause anything from aggression to becoming a nervous dog.

The closest I got to roughing with the dogs was when grooming them, I was a dab hand with a brush. :-D

Get your son involved with your dog in doing things like this also, along with perhaps helping you to train him, lots of positive interactions help a dog to grow up gentle and confident, into the dog you want him to be. :-D

> but I can't get out of my head what he did yesterday - completely unprovoked

It was not unprovoked.

You've allready said the dog has started to kennel gaurd agaisnt children - (I can't see the difference for the dog being behind the bars of a crate of the bars of a gate). Reggie was barking at the child - the child then proceeded to walk towards the barking dog (obviously the adutls fault for allowing/encouraging this), reggie followed through the vocal warning with a physcial one.

OR reggie was over-excited, in which case children should be kept away from him anyway - it's far too easy for an over-excited youngester to injure children through jumping and playfull nipping.

This was completely 'provoked' as far as Reggie is concerned, completley predicatbal and completely preventable.

I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but even if Reggie is only barking through excitement, small kids and large excited dogs do NOT mix - children can get hurt so easily. Reggie may have been over-excited or he may have issues with children, either way the behaviourist is the way to go.

You also say that Reggie has always barked the most at the boy he snapped at, if I understand your post correctly; so as mastifflover rightly says, his snapping was entirely provoked and entirely preventable.

Also, you say that you've been putting him outside when children arrive; there's a possibility that he thinks that children arriving are a bad thing, because it always results in him being put outside, shut away from his family.  That would make him stressed to start with, and increase his protectivity towards you and your son because he cannot physically be near you; he would be extra-worried about you because he would not be able to control anything that happened.

Definitely agree with the behaviourist too, and it would be worth getting a vet check to make sure there's nothing underlying that's making him edgy but I suspect this is down to misunderstanding and stress.

Hi Twinny

I can only echo the advice you've been given so far - practical, sensible and if taken on board together with that of a reputable behaviourist I can see no reason why there won't be a positive outcome.

Please update on your discussions with the behaviourist
Good luck, Teri

My GSD was the most loving and gentle dog with people including children. Once and once only she did the same snap at my grandaughter face, but I did not read it as true aggression (as if a gsd wants to attack it will be more than just a snap) it was more of a case of 'get out of my face '. My grandaughter just ran up to my dog and threw her arms around her neck for a hug, although she knew she was not allowed to do this, she was only ever allowed to gently stroke the dog under supervision,never rough games or pulling around,  but this time she made a run for the dog and threw herself on top of her back, hence the dogs reaction. My grandaughter was aged 6 and should not have done this and even though I was wary for a while it never happened again, but my G Daughter learnt her lesson. I really didn't like this snap from my dog but didn't completely blame her, but was just extra careful of situations in the future.

Thank you to everyone who has replied.
You're all right. I should have taken more notice of his barking. He usually barks when someone comes in the house but looking back this bark was different. I have been given some information from the vet regarding understanding body language and they have also lent me an interactive dvd for my son which teaches children how to behave with dogs and signs to watch out for.
The behaviourist I spoke to today is at my local vets. She is a vet nurse who has studied doggy behaviour. She has done a referral to a reputable behaviourist who will be coming out to assess Reggie at home.
She made some very interesting points and I am now seeing things a lot more clearly. I think initially it was the shock at what had happened. Reggie has been well socialised since a pup but it is now obvious that he is not comfortable with other children in his home. This is something we will be working on with the behaviourist. In the meantime, I have replaced the safety gate with a proper dog gate which is taller and moved his bed to a child free place so when visitors come he can be away from the noise.
My son is also under going training. My initial post probably made it sound like I allow him to use Reggie as his own personal play toy. That is not the case. However, he is being taught that he must respect Reggie's space and in future he must allow Reggie to instigate play not the other way round. His play time with Reggie is always supervised but he is also learning that he must play calmly with Reggie, not get over excited and certainly not be too rough in his play.
Thank you again. Will let you know how we get on when the behaviourist has been.

What a wonderful update, you have got all the bases covered. :-) I have to say what a fantastic vet you have too, with the dvd's and body language literature truly not many vets like yours.

The very best of luck with all your continued support, your dog is going to be just fine now that you are beginning to understand his needs too.

Wishing you many happy years together. :-)

Fantastic news Twinny - I agree with Carrington, you have a super vet there with an excellent approach towards what is basically normal doggy behaviour :-)  Someone with that level of interest, knowledge and experience is worth their weight in gold and I'm sure you will all soon be much more relaxed.  Good luck with the 1-2-1 behaviourist, I'm sure that will be a great benefit too.

Wishing you all the best, please keep us posted on news.
Teri :-)

Great news :-D

I'm so pleased that you managed to look at it past the emotional aspect - very hard to do when it involves our beloved doggies, and as others have said how brilliant to have a vet like that!

I hope you and your hubby feel less worried over Reggie now and see that allthough this is not what you want him to be like around kids, it does not mean he is an agressive, ticking time-bomb.

So, very pleased you have positive steps in place.

Good on ya :-D

Thank you Mastifflover. It's true. I think I probably over reacted a little with having a small child of my own but he's still the same Reggie he was 2 days ago - not suddenly a savage beast. My husband who was adamant we couldn't keep him also feels a lot happier after I relayed what was advised on here and also from the vet nurse. He's even admitted that he hasn't pulled his weight with Reggie and will be far more involved in his training from now on!!! Wow, for a man to admit that - there's always a silver lining somewhere!!!! Just received a phone call from the vets and the behaviourists name is Kendal Shepherd (now with a name like shepherd its fate things will turn out ok!!! lol). Reggie's referral has been passed and she will be contacting me in the next day or so to arrange a home visit.
Thanks again - you've all been so helpful x x

Job well done.Good luck.

I've only heard good things about Kendal so that's fantastic, and what brilliant vets too!  You're on to a good thing there :-)

That is all positive moves and so glad your hubby has taken on board to be more involved . So when is his training going to start ? !!

lol LJS - his training started as soon as he got home last night!!! He got to do poo patrol on the lawn!!! lol

Well done ! Training is ongoing for life so make sure he knows that !!

> lol LJS - his training started as soon as he got home last night!!! He got to do poo patrol on the lawn!!! lol

if he's anything like my OH that is a massive help, as its the little things like that that take up our time :)  Good luck with Reggie x

I just thought I would give you all a quick update on Reggie since the behaviourist came to visit.
Kendal Shepherd was unable to come in the end due to other commitments but she however recommended someone else who came out 3 weeks ago. She spent 3 hours with us observing Reggie and discussing our home life and the incident. She watched Reggie playing with Bradley and said he is very relaxed when playing with him. She felt the incident was something that had been brewing over some time until Reggie had no alternative. His behaviour may have come about as a result of pent up frustration at not being able to play with children and she also agreed with the advice given on here about moving his bed to a "safe" place.

She gave me a new training regime for him to try to teach him a little self control. She noted that although I had done training with him and he obviously knew the commands he became very distracted when other people are around. We are doing 3 x 10 minute structured sessions per day plus other adhoc ones as they arise. He really seems to be enjoying himself too!! He now has to work for everything. Even his meals are given to him in a kong rather than "offered on a plate" so to speak. we still have a long way to go. He still gets distracted but he's a fast learner and if the reward is a ball game rather than a food reward then the world is my oyster!!

My little boy has also undergone a new training regime and is much more understanding of how to behave around Reggie. He respects Reggie's space much more and waits for Reggie to initiate play rather than the other way round. I have to say thought, this is not a problem as Reggie wants to play all the time!!

I have seen a change in Reggie over the past few weeks and they are definitely for the better. He seems much more relaxed. Whether its because his brain is being used more i don't know or because he understands the boundaries a little more (part of the training has been to teach him to respect personal space - something he has not really done in the past. If I sit down i am fair game for having a toy shoved in my lap or being pawed for affection!!)

We have had several occasions when children have visited. Reggie is taken to his "safe place" and this has worked fine apart from when the child in question visits. Even then, without seeing him, Reggie reacts as soon as he hears his voice. Something is making him react. One day, he came to visit and Reggie was already outside in the garden. It seemed easier to leave him outside as it was a lovely day and keep the children indoors. Initially he heard the little boy through an open window and straight away his whole demeanour changed. He was barking aggressively and jumping at the door. It now seems as though it is aggression towards the individual rather than children in general.

I have spoken to the behaviourist since her visit and told her about the reactions. She is inclined to agree but is coming back next week for a follow up visit. We have arranged for 2 children to visit whilst she is here - one being the child in question, so she can see for herself the different reactions. She will then advise how to train Reggie moving forward. i don't feel I could ever allow Reggie access to the child but if I can get him to stop reacting when the child visits that is as much as I can hope for at this stage.

Sorry, just realised i have been really rambling on. Will update when we have had the follow up visit. Would just like to say a huge thank you again to everyone who posted last time. i saw things so much more clearly than I had initially x