I've started this as a place the discussion that has developed here can be carried on.

I do see that replies here tend to be straight to the point and in general, most posters don't suffer fools in silence! Personaly, I think it's a good thing and is what seperates this forum from others.
We have all been 'newbies' here at some point and I remeber being a little taken aback by the 'tone' of replies in some of my earlier posts, but it really it is something I love about champdogs. Nobody is going to pussy-foot around you  - you get honest opinions and advice from many experienced people.

I'm a little confused as to how some people can state how horrid they think replies can be, yet they stick aruond and continue to be active members?

I'm still puzzling over why, if a course of action is perceived to be wrong (whether through genuine ignorance or poor/ambiguous wording of the original post) one is supposed to offer sympathy rather practical advice on how to improve the situation. And of course some people will take any differing opinion as being 'nasty' simply because it's not the same as their own.

Even asking questions for clarification brings accusations of bullying! You can't win!

> I'm a little confused as to how some people can state how horrid they think replies can be, yet they stick aruond and continue to be active members?

I agree.  Whilst the complaint has been that the same posters are guilty of "telling it as it is"  it could also be noted that it appears to be the same posters complaining about that! :)  If you are recommending another forum you have to ask why isn't that the one you are frequenting?

I think we have to accept that when we come asking for advise, advise is what we will get whether you like the opinion of the giver or not.
That is the value of this particular forum, it is knowledgable and honest and why many choose to ask here in the first place.  It is then up to you whether to take that advise or not. 

I've also noticed that some of the most vociferous complainers never actually offer advice themselves ...

Well, I think this thread is in danger of being the very sort of thread which 'these people' are afraid of posting on (those who fear being shot down in flames). 

It is already getting a bit confrontational.

>I'm a little confused as to how some people can state how horrid they think replies can be, yet they stick aruond and continue to be active members?

I'm here because this forum has a great concentration of experienced breeders, across a wide range of breeds.  As someone who's experienced in dogs yet has never bred a litter, constant access to somewhere where all my questions can be answered is what I need.  I also find that the Health forum is very helpful as no matter what obscure condition you're dealing with, most of the time someone else has had a similar experience.  None of the other boards I'm a member of have such a concentration of breeders, so I find it worth tolerating the hostility because I get the information I need.  But it doesn't make me like CDs or necessarily want to be as involved as I otherwise might be, here.

I should imagine others of us who dislike the hostility here also find there are benefits and plusses to the forum which make it worth bearing the hostility to some extent.  But that's not to say it wouldn't be a more pleasant and more helpful place without it.

>If you are recommending another forum you have to ask why isn't that the one you are frequenting?

I'm a member of several different online forums, each of them with their own different vibe and atmosphere.  CDs seems to be quick to judge and very critical.  As I pointed out above, there are certain elements I get from CDs which the other forums don't provide.

>I think we have to accept that when we come asking for advise, advise is what we will get whether you like the opinion of the giver or not.

This is not taking into account the fact that there are different ways to give exactly the same advice.

For example - totally hypothetical example:

'What are you doing with a puppy at all, I can't understand why someone with so little time to care for it would bother taking one on in the first place'.

And:

'Perhaps it might be time to consider whether you want to keep the pup, and whether you feel you have the resources and support you need to adequately care for it.'

The latter is far less judgemental, hostile and critical, yet the essential message is the same.  This is not a debate about what you should say to someone, but rather how you should say it.

>It is already getting a bit confrontational.

I think that is a slight exaggeration :) but strong debate is inevitable I'm afraid as the thread is entirely a response to some rather critical postings :)  The posters were not shrinking violets on the other thread so I don't see why they should be shy of coming in here and debating in a more appropriate way.

> This is not a debate about what you should say to someone, but rather how you should say it.

Unfortunately we all have our own ways of expressing ourselves subject to many different facts, education, experience etc.  I think that is inevitable and perhaps there is too much sensitivity also. 
If the advise is sound it should hit the target and if it isn't there will surely be further posts refuting it.

Thanks for opening this as a new thread mastifflover.  I've replied to your post but the 'you' in my response is a general one!  I've wondering about the recent rash of 'complaints' too.

I don't think I've ever received any replies that I would categorise as rude or judgmental - in fact I've always had great advice when I've asked for it.  It's certainly true that some topics get people a bit hot under the collar but on reflection those are the same topics that stir the emotions in real life too so it's not just on here.

Those same topics are raised week in, week out - does no one ever search??! - and the same people reply.  Please remember that they don't have to AND the Original Poster can accept or disregard their advice.  If you are going to throw something out there, on an open forum, you'd be naive to expect that everyone will help and everyone will agree with you.  If you do not have the sense (or thick skin!!) to sift through the replies, and keep an open mind whilst you discuss the topic, then you're really in the wrong place.

Here are my own personal forum rules that I apply, just for me:

1) see if the topic has been questioned recently before starting a new one
2) attempt to read between the lines and ignore poor grammar and spelling (my own personal hate shouldn't affect how I respond to you)
3) once the topic has gone over 100 don't go back (I might expire whilst reading it)
4) learn a posters style - if I read something I like I have a look at their old posts to see if they are consistent and someone I think I can learn from.  Ditto with annoying posters, that way I can ignore the people with whom I don't think I'll ever agree!
5) don't keep up the argument or attempt to score points - it's very boring for the reader AND "Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it."
-- George Bernard Shaw
6) only comment if I have real experience or knowledge of the question/topic OR think I can add value to the discussion
7) if I feel tempted to add a snotty reply, make a cup of tea and consider whether it's really worth it.  I was always taught to choose my Waterloo wisely 

Finally - there is always an OFF button.  Do I really care if we don't do, say, or think the same things?  Not really, it can make for a interesting discussion and Vive la difference :)

Please define confrontational.

> Here are my own personal forum rules that I apply, just for me:

> 1) see if the topic has been questioned recently before starting a new one
> 2) attempt to read between the lines and ignore poor grammar and spelling (my own personal hate shouldn't affect how I respond to you)
> 3) once the topic has gone over 100 don't go back (I might expire whilst reading it)
> 4) learn a posters style - if I read something I like I have a look at their old posts to see if they are consistent and someone I think I can learn from.  Ditto with > annoying posters, that way I can ignore the people with whom I don't think I'll ever agree!
> 5) don't keep up the argument or attempt to score points - it's very boring for the reader AND "Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it."
> -- George Bernard Shaw
> 6) only comment if I have real experience or knowledge of the question/topic OR think I can add value to the discussion
> 7) if I feel tempted to add a snotty reply, make a cup of tea and consider whether it's really worth it.  I was always taught to choose my Waterloo wisely 

Golly :) :) I admire your patience and perseverance :) If I had to run through all those before posting, I would give up half way and make a cup of tea :) :) :) Having said that, some may think that that might be a good idea and encourage me to do it :) :) :)

I'm a 'say it as I think' sort of person. If someone says that they believe the sea is pink, I'll happily tell them that it isn't without making my answer pink and fluffy :) I'd rather people come out and say things straight (unless they are just being malicious) and their post is what they truely believe.

I think its the written word that comes across flat and harsh. If we were talking to these people face to face, things would be taken differently When we talk we smile, use various tones to our voices, use our hands and body language well. Flat written words are difficult to get over in the manner its often meant.

I am in agreement with Rocknrose....the written word can so often be misunderstood and with no ability to show personality or tone to the post you can often mis read the written word.......BUT I have to agree sometimes I have also read posts numerous times and there is often no other way to read them other than in the aggressive manner they have been written....
This forum has been prefect for helping me in the recent months as a first time puppy owner and I have received wonderful advice.....but feel that if you have a topic that could receive different people to perceive them in different ways then so be it.....if you are easily offended by others opinions then why post asking advice......

It is very wrong to try to pigeon hole all posters to act and talk in the same way, the world is made up of different personalities (thank goodness) it always amuses me how some of the straight talkers on here get a hard time for just being themselves, many posters just stand up for the animal and don't feel the need to stroke the owner too, it seems some posters are also afraid to post when the straight talkers are around, why? What do they think will happen to them?

We can all have an opinion, agree, disagree, join in or ignore posters, the world is not full of only sentimental fluffy people, it is full of diverse personalities.

I wish everyone would just live and let live, it is just as bad to try to control how others write and feel, just accept who we all are........... as long as no-one insults or uses bad language, respect what they feel.

This forum has been around for 11 years, it's formula works, the people on here work, as the forum is more popular than ever, no matter how some for whatever reason like to say it isn't, the figures speak for themselves...........

Just accept people for who they are.

They say "Stupidity is forever whereas ignorance can be fixed".
I take no notice of grammar and forgive those who want to find out things but dont put it well...

BUT I cant stand those who want to find out just the gems they want to discover but wont be swayed from their opinions of the ones they dont.

>I think its the written word that comes across flat and harsh.

I agree. I think each reader chooses how to interpret each post, and because each reader is different, each interpretation will be different. A lot depends on whether one allows oneself to choose to be offended by minutiae or to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

The long and short of it is those that usually have a issue with the replies they get purely because they don't get the there there response lets make it all better, i'm afraid i often don't post because i just want to shout why the hell have you got a bl**dy dog then, so then to complain that those who do take the time to atleast throw in some heplfull suggestions is a bit cheeky really.
What you get here is a whole spectrum of opinions and it's unlikely that you are going to get all postive comments, this is how it works when its a forum open to all!

I do read most threads on CD & often feel taken aback by the harsh replies & yes i do feel some are too judgemental. 
Some of the threads just seem to end up with 'in fighting' & trying to score points against each other, which i imagine will just put off new members.  There are so many experienced, knowledgable CD members which is obviously a good thing but it would be much nicer if some posters were a little more understanding of novice dog owners.
Being a member of other dog forums (breed specific) i can honestly say that these are so much more friendlier/helpful & members are treated with respect. 
Thats not to say if a new member appears a bit 'dodgy' they end up disappearing into the abyss.
Just thought i would grab the chance to join in with this & put my opinion across.

>I've also noticed that some of the most vociferous complainers never actually offer advice themselves ...

I think this sort of post maybe explains and answers the question in one go?

The most "vociferous complainers" are the ones who stand on the sidelines and, like me, wonders "should I bother posting a reply to this?".  The answer 99% of the time is NO because I for one can't be doing with being shot-down for having the 'wrong' opinion by long-standing members of this forum.  The "vociferous complainers" are also the ones that watch all of it happening without getting involved personally so, arguably, have a more unbiased opinion?

I would refer to what I said in the previous thread that was hijacked for this topic but it seems to have mysteriously been deleted.  I wonder if this is because too many people decided to say what they really think?  A case of safety in numbers, and that in itself speaks volumes.  I also wonder at the point of this thread because it will most probably be removed UNLESS the majority sit here and say "yes CDs is great and no one is ever unfriendly, rude or aggressive to others".

I decided to do a search on my own name where I know one of the long-standing members on this forum became particularly narky with me when I pointed out that ticks have to be turned anti-clockwise to be removed. I was simply pointing this out to others who may not know but clicked "reply" on her(?) post - you have to click "reply" to someone.  Unfortunately I got an extremely aggressive and sarcastic response.  To my disappointment, this seems to be another thread that has been deleted for an unexplained reason.

Now, I have to admit, that was the one and only time that I have personally had a problem but I have witnessed it time and time again with others.  As I've said before, I quite often come on to read through the latest goings on and this forum is fab for offering health advice, product reviews etc but the personalities (that come across) stink.

I understand where people are coming from with it being a case of the written word but is it really too hard to read back what you have written and think "now, how could that be read and am I coming across with the same way I mean it to sound?"

My apologies if this has offended people but this is my honest opinion and view of what I see here and I can only hope offers an explanation as to why a lot of people don't post on here but do complain about the general attitudes.

To add - I am an active member on other forums (albeit breed specific) and never come across the rudeness or abruptness that occurs on here.  Even with some VERY heated debates!  Everyone speaks/types how they wish to be spoken to.  A rule I think can go miles.

Edited to add:  This entire post wasn't aimed completely at you jeangenie!  (Just covering my back as I've been in that sticky position before!!) :)

Suppose it all comes down to what you want from your forum. Cosy chat about dogs or the honestly held opinion of those who in most cases have the knowledge sought.

There are loads of dog forums on the web best go find one that suits the reader why try and change this one, what is the point of having all forums the same there would then only be the need for one.

Would agree that there is no need to be rude of use bad language or make personal attacks but see nothing wrong in stating ones opinion. If the recipient does not like the reply they can ignore and look for an answer they find more acceptable but the person who is really seeking advice will take it all and then make an informed judgement.

Just to say:  Other forums also use 'the written word', so I don't think all responsibility for posts coming across as hostile and critical can entirely be levelled at the fact that they are written.  They are written on other forums too.

The previous thread will have been edited to remove the off subject discussion.

I agree rabid.  It is only this forum where "the written word" is claimed as a genuine and "ok" excuse.

I agree - the written words always seem harsher than the spoken one + my only rule is I wouldn't put in writing something I would say in exactly the same way face to face.
I just know that although I'm very interested in some of the discussions here, I would never dare to start a thread if I had a porblem in fear of being judged and criticized.
If the aim of a forum is for people to speak their mind full stop then fine BUT if the aim is to provide pet owner/breeders etc... with helpful information/advice then it doesn't hurt to hold back and ask more questions or even contact privately before writing down some (maybe true but) harsh comments that always seem to pop up.
Again I don't think this is everyone and most people here will be more than helpful whilst remaining open. I do agree sometimes it the OP which causes the lash back through the nature of the question or the way they explain their problem but a little more patience and tolerance would make a much more friendly environment to share the wealth of experiences gathered amongst members of CD.

JMO

I was a member long before I started to post as there was someone on this forum who was down right nasty and I was put off posting. There are a few combinations of posters who appear to enjoy baiting each other but I tend to rise above it. Often people complain about responses because they are just not what they want to hear!!
I am a "tell it like it is person", sometimes the typed word is misunderstood that's why smileys are useful!! If I feel that someone has been jumped on then I often mail them privately; especially people who are brave enough to ask for advice as they are struggling.

I think we all are on here because we love dogs, I read all the advice then make up my own mind, just because people do not agree with my views on homeopathy and raw feeding I don't discount their opinions.

We ALL need to remember that we don't know it ALL, doesn't matter how long you have owned dogs we should still be absorbing information and learning from each other- that's why this is such  great supportive forum :)  

>one of the long-standing members on this forum became particularly narky with me when I pointed out that ticks have to be turned anti-clockwise to be removed.

I don't know if that was me; I doubt it because I used to think that too, until I watched videos of the O'Tom tick hook being used successfully in either direction! :-D I think people say only turn them anti-clockwise because that's the easiest way for right-handers - turning them clockwise seems to work equally well. I think the important thing is to twist and not just pull.

(There! Factual, informative and good-natured!)

No jeangenie - that wasn't you regarding the tick thing!  I meant I replied to you in this topic and I didn't want you to think my whole rant in this topic was aimed at you!!  :)

There have been several threads on this forum, where would-be breeders hope to attract the help of a so called mentor.

My mentors ( my mother and a friend of over 30 years standing) always 'told me like it is' and those were the 'moments' that helped me out, got me out of a jam, made me see sense, steered me in the right direction and got me to where I am now.

This advice seldom involved the 'Oh goodie likkle puppies' sort of comments .....more like the  - 'What the hell are you thinking?'- type of advice.

I endeavour to do the same for those who ask my advice and am very mindful that I can cut out great lumps of problems for novices by offering my experience. They dont have to take it just like I dont have to give it...but Im sure no one should have to help those whos ethos/methods/principles or aims they dont approve of.
I wouldnt be terribly polite to that type of person in real life so why here?

> The most "vociferous complainers" are the ones who stand on the sidelines

Surely a contradiction in terms :)

Just to say that in the years I have been on this site I have been impressed by the depth of (the majority of) posters' knowledge, patience and their willingness to share--and of course there may be times when the advice is not what one may want or like to hear, and/or it may sound brusque, but don't let a thin skin stand in the way of sharing and learning! 

Hee hee..

However many years ago, when I first joined Champdogs, I was warned by others that it was 'different' ie, not fluffy, that people spoke directly and yep, CDer's had a reputation for being quite feisty and for cutting straight to the point.

I have to say in recent years I have thought there has been a LOT more tongue-holding and reserve shown by long standing members who do not suffer fools gladly, and this place has become on the whole a lot less intimidating!

Either that or I've got older, tougher and less scared by you lot (JG I'm totally looking at you! :p)

Anyone who thinks people are harsh or too blunt here, head over to the forum *I* run and see how we put things there - there is NO pussy footing about and 'there there' or dancing round the issue. People come for training and behavioural advice and that is what they get, and we don't suffer peoples funny ideas or unrealistic attitudes either.

That said we do get more than our fair share of numpty-like questions.

Even back in the days when CD didn't have moderators, I cannot recall a time when people were mean for the sake of mean - blunt and to the point and not massively sympathetic towards idiocy, yes, but no one was horrid to someone just for the sake of it. I don't see this behaviour now, either - but I DO see on a daily basis (not just here, everywhere) a wealth of people who want free help.. but absolutely do NOT want to hear anything that implies they have faffed up or been a pillock.

I've found a tendency to say 'well it hasn't happened to me so it's not true' which is pretty irritating particularly when it happens continuously in every thread, eg when I've given advice gleaned from many people and including my first hand experience of worming problems.  The other when people have jumped in and contradicted advice given in a vociferous way even though they don't have the breed - eg when trying to discuss issues of sheltie size, a huge area in shelties and even when at least 3 sheltie people backed me up there was still the 'you haven't bred 4 generations or been to crufts what do you know?' attitude which shut the thread, upset the OP (who fortunately went to a sheltie forum for some sensible advice from people with sheltie experience) and upset me.  It wasn't even done 'nicely' and the lack of knowledge from people who have good knowledge in other areas (there own) was shocking to be honest.

Although someone doesn't agree with me I was irritated after suggesting that a good way of finding out a bit about a range of breeds was discover dogs - to have 2 or 3 posters saying 'you wont find out they lick at discover dogs' or 'you wont know all about them at discover dogs'!  So irritating when it was a suggestion merely to limit their choice to manageable numbers of breeds to investigate further.

Anyway, that's got that off my chest!  Lol

>I was irritated after suggesting that a good way of finding out a bit about a range of breeds was discover dogs - to have 2 or 3 posters saying 'you wont find out they lick at discover dogs' or 'you wont know all about them at discover dogs'!  So irritating when it was a suggestion merely to limit their choice to manageable numbers of breeds to investigate further.

You see, this is where I think (quite happy to be proved wrong! ;-)) there's a problem in each person putting a different slant on the same post. What I read was everyone agreeing that DD is a good place to start, but also pointing out its shortcomings and how going to see adult dogs in a home environment (which was what the thread was about) actually gives a better insight into the reality of actually living with them. I didn't read anywhere that people disagreed about DD being a good place to start, and so I'm at a loss as to why you would find this so irritating.

You see though pennygc I recognise you have had a problem with wormers but whatvyou have to recognise is that many of us have not and you come across as preaching to us why we should not use somehing we've used for many years to no ill effect, it's a 2 way street :)

I found this forum a few months ago, had heard about it and it had a reputation of knowledge, experience and for giving help and advice.. but didn't suffer fools gladly and that is exactly as I have found it and why I enjoy it.  There are plenty of forums about that are wishy washy, everyone talks the talk but can't back it up with first hand knowledge and experience and this one does.  It can be close to the bone at times, but in real life we'd be exasperated with some of the questions and situations we read, and really I think there is quite a lot of restraint shown.  When everyone is diplomatic and the OP still doesn't 'get it' then somebody steps in and tells it how in is, and suddenly offence is taken. 

I like this forum just as it is, and if I didn't I'm free to move on.

You see though pennygc I recognise you have had a problem with wormers but whatvyou have to recognise is that many of us have not and you come across as preaching to us why we should not use somehing we've used for many years to no ill effect, it's a 2 way street :-)

Sorry my sharing experience by myself and others came across as 'preaching' that certainly not intended - probably brought about because I had to 'justify' myself when I shouldn't have had to.  If my experience had been taken as 'valid' rather than being trashed I wouldn't have had to!  I felt that although I put forward a valid warning - that my experiences and that of others was basically trashed and that wasn't at all nice.  It's fine to say 'I don't know of those things' but I found that some posters were telling others to ignore me because it 'hadn't happened to them and they hadn't heard about the problems' - I hope they, you and those asking for advice don't have it happen to your pups.  People will make their own mind up but to just discount something because it hasn't happened yet is like saying I've flown in hundreds of planes and haven't had a crash yet.. or cars or anything.

> to just discount something because it hasn't happened yet is like saying I've flown in hundreds of planes and haven't had a crash yet.. or cars or anything.

but that's the point if you told people that they shouldn't fly as they are likely to crash you would expect people to come back and say that in fact flying is probably the safest form of transport.

Flying itself is not dangerous, but human/mechanical error/Acts of God cause accidents.

To tell people that a product is dangerous that has been successfully used, rigorously tested and the issues you presented unproven as causing a developmental problem, (after all the chemical is used after that stage of development has long been completed), has to be challenged.

Now digestive upset, inappetence etc are side effects that could be expected, as after all wormers are all strong chemicals.  Also people get hung up on brands, yet will use another brand with the same chemical (well that the body converts to the same chemical) plus several more.

I don't consider that being mean, but offering balance, after all most posters don't know each other from Adam.

Rather than bog down the debate with a rehash of old arguements perhaps it would be better to avoid using specific details and simply discuss general points. :)

But I think that perhaps the specific examples are very important, otherwise we can all end up speaking in a generalised way, which doesn't translate across to the forum itself.  We can all agree that it's not nice to intentionally be nasty to others, but what exactly is 'nasty'?  What is 'intentional', even?  Unless specific examples are used, these things can't be discussed so some common understanding of others can be reached.

> We can all agree that it's not nice to intentionally be nasty to others, but what exactly is 'nasty'? 

Yes, good point.  I did wonder when someone mentioned a poster putting them off by being nasty whether they really were or simply held strong opposing views to the them which they found difficult to address.

Yes, indeed, specific examples are the only way that will make people understand that what they post affects others.  Now I can be as exasperated as the next person that people have no idea of dogs never mind individual breeds or how pups are but we should try and at least be civil.
As for the examples given - my example of worming issues given to pups are well experienced by others and I offered an alternative. However my knowledge and experience were trashed in a big way by people saying because it hadn't happened to them they weren't even going to accept that it may have happened to others.  At no time did I advise not to worm - I gave recommendations of a wormer which hadn't caused deaths and developmental problems and advised that people contacted the firm to ask about pregnant bitch dosage as it wasn't included in the advice on the package.  Sadly my opinion was steamrollered simply because it 'hadn't happened to them' - well I hope it doesnt as it's awful and those asking about wormers should receive all views - not just 'don't listen to Penny because it hasn't happened to me' which was the crux of the argument.  All very very unpleasant.  This is the point of this thread - and it appears that some people are just not listening :-(

Penny, all the posts I have read on the subject simply attempted to put it in proportion.  See Brainless' post above. 
In the same way that people should not ignore that something may have occured we also have to consider the probabilites.  We all have to listen :)

   Hi not to anyone really just wanted to say don't change you all have helped me so much in the past and no doubt in the future lol

At the end of the day you ask the question and people give you advice if you don't like the straight to the point answers or not what you want to hear then you have the choice to MOVE on .

  Every person has their own opinions and for me I know however silly a question I put I know that it will be answered and put in the right direction. Which is what I need as still learning the ropes .

Nessa

Yes Stooge - we do! sorry but there was nothing 'proportional' about the postings, nor on the sheltie size postings :-(  They were all a case of 'I know best, you know nothing'.  I'm happy to have balanced discussions - but they weren't.  But! No good will come of continually going round and round.  I know that I was upset by the basic trashing I got, you feel you and the others put 'balance' - we're clearly not going to agree.  More of this 'no it wasn't' 'yes it was' merely indicates that the OP was right in bringing some of this out for an airing

Very well said nesstaffy, :-)

Yes, there are many, many dog sites, floated around a mere few of them myself, there are some good ones with knowledgeable people on, many I might add coming also from this site. :-D

But a recurring theme on the really nicey, nice sites is a poster will ask a question, the thread will be flooded with tea and biscuits, group hugs, but where is the blooming answer to the question, they don't know, you get a few guesses thrown in but 10 posts down the poor poster has been hugged to death but is no wiser.

On this site a question will be posted and a question answered with added advice and help along with posters arriving with tea and biscuits - PERFECT! :-)

I once had a bitch who had a fatal reaction to anaesthetic. If I suggested that, because of this experience, people should avoid allowing their dogs to have surgery, would I be justified in getting the hump if there followed many posts pointing out how rare this reaction was, or would this reasonably put my experience into proportion?

I like your description Carrington. I like this site the way it is, it would be a shame if it turned into a tea and biscuit parade because people got over-worried that frankness (is that a word?) will be construed as nastiness

> frankness (is that a word?)

It sure is :)

I think everybody has a right to their own objective view and sometime may come across as harsh in one person view but not in others.

The difference to CD amongst other forums are that this forum is supported by many experienced people who have seen so many people come on here that are only after one answer ( reassurance ) even if what they are doing is wrong.

That is where perhaps people have be blunt sometimes to get through the haze of rose tinted spectacles :-)

Bit late in seeing this but just wanted to agree here. I am a member on a number of forums, for a number of years and this one for over 5 years (even though I post once in a blue moon). If I am looking for advice or opinion then THIS is the forum I come to for the experience and knowledge within it. I also don't want this to change.

BUT there are examples of harsh responses and I think that everyone has seen them. There are also examples of very silly or odd questions.
We should remember this. No matter how stupid the question or how bad the situation for the dog, the poster has at least had the sense to ask for help and advice. If the response they get is very blunt and they do disappear then we have lost a prime opportunity to educate as well has help out an innocent dog. A more gentle but honest reply can sometimes lay the way for education far better than a criticism. It does make me wince sometimes when a new poster asks a question and gets a grilling...if they're not familiar with the forum then they may not understand why.

I think it really is the place to come for advice...although I've noticed in general people can be very judgmental but that's not to say all. I've also noticed alot of contradictory statements especially about breeding, for example "I wouldn't sell my puppies to anyone who works....or has small children....." When you see other posts from the same people there are comments about going to work or even having small children or you see web sites that obviously belong to regular breeders who "only breed to keep a puppy". I think alot of people on here say what is fashionable to say and not what they actually do. 

Charlie Brown have you specific examples of the contradictions you mention ? :-)