Can anyone tell me why rottweilers have become smaller and smaller in recent years. Is it just me or are there any other people out ther who prefer the taller, broader "old style" rott's?

Hi Josh,

the old type Rottis weren't that massive. It was only in the past 20 years or so that they were bred for mass. Especially in the States.

Taylor

I'm not a Rotty boffin so I dont know too much about their history. As to what I refer to as "old" and "new" style rotties; I went to a dog exhibition (my first), and I saw a couple of rotties which only just came above my knee (and I'm only 5 ft and a fag end...literally!!!!lol). When I questioned the owner about the size (about 21 inches) she said that these are the types of rotty's being breed now, smaller and more compact, "a new style of rotty's" she said. So I'm just asking anyone with a little know-how.....is this true? if it is, then why? if it's not true, then thats cool, she's probably just making an excuse for her poor examples of such a beautiful, strong and noble breed.

Well, Josh, take heart...that's definitely NOT the style here in Germany. Both Americans and Germans have large Rotties. Occasionally, I see smaller ones, but I think that might be just genetic independence showing up more than a breeding trait. The dogs here are usually from 80-110 pounds.

The Americans are bringing over some extremely large dogs from Canada and US (125 pounds for one), which I don't think were bred for soundness, just for size. Concept of "if big is good, bigger is better" thinking :( :( They don't seem to realize that it will affect the quality of life, health, and longevity for the dog...but that's just my opinion. I don't like seeing trends and the GIs definitely have Rotties on the brain around here.
regards,
toodles

Hi

I own and show rotties and I do think the breeders are now trying to add a bit more height.
My male and his son are top of the breed height standard.

I do agree with you that some rotties its hard to see if its male or female anymore.
If you looking for a larger rottie please get in touch i know of several breeders that are expecting pups and both parents are the "older" type :)

My friend Kath and I were only talking about this the other day as we were playing on her yard with Kissmet her 'old' style rottie bitch. We had been to a show and she had commented on how small the rotties were and how alike each gender was not the strong heads that showed a male.

Kath and Mick (so they tell me) imported the first German Rottie's to the UK a bitch in whelp and since he died in Oct we had been going over old photo's for a doggie album for her and these dogs where huge compared to what's about at the min.

I am sure Dizzy would be able to tell you better than me as she too, like Kath was in the breed for a few yrs.

Carolyn,
I've tried to contact you through your email but you haven't got back to me. Just wondering whether you recieved it or not. Doesn't matter if you didn't, just wanted to get details of breeders who breed the larger rottweiler from you.
Thanks

Hi Josh

I am sorry I promise to email you later tonight
I have been busy at shows and helping a friend thorough a rough patch.

I did not get another rotty after my bitch Cleo died, for that reason. Cleo was a very large bitch, when we use to take her to our Vets, he always use to look underneth, shake his head and call her a freak of nature. When we were looking for a new dog, I just could not find a good example of the breed, I searched for eighteen months, I did not like any of the dams & studs used as they were very small and as you say it was hard to see the difference in their sex. It was another year before I decided on a Newfoundland, I changed the breed rarther than always comparing Cleo to the Rotties around at that time. My Brother has an American imported Rottie, who is very large, but I just do not like his temperament (sp), one minute you can be fussing him and then the next he having a growl at you. (Not sure if thats anything to do with my brother, spoiling him rotton though)
ILOVEDOGS

Thank you all for your time. Its just that I've been emailing and chatting to different breeders about getting a large Rotty, but every time I ask, they think I want a large rotty for the ego factor!!! Thats just not the case. Rotty's, GSD's, Dobe's, etc are serious dogs, not to be confused with aggressive or vicious, but dogs whom have strong gaurding and protective instincts, which bond strongly to family members, including children!!! and any breeders who are breeding them just so they look good, or as "lap" dogs aren't doing justice to the breed or the breeds "creator(s)"!!! But thats just what I think anyway.....so there!!! Anyone who feels differently, I'd love to hear from you so we can discuss your point of view.

rotts definitley are in the majority the smaller end of the breed standard these days, but probably within the lower height called for, i agree that many are hard to tell which sex they are too, but breeders have been concentrating far more on temperament and soundness of late [not that bigger means nasty!] --but i think size wasnt a priority at the time the breed was having bad press, however up to size dogs can still be found,
youd be best off going to crufts and having a look to see which kennel is producing the look you like, !!! good luck

Thanks Carolyn and Dizzy. Please tell me, when and where is crufts this year? Do you know of any local shows in the Midlands area? What is the qualty of the dogs and breeders like at local level?

dont know where you are, so cant answer that---crufts or working day is 7th of march, held at the NEC at birmingham, should be around 200 entered , give or take a few!

Do you not think the the smaller size may be the side effect of trying to breed out inheritated disease and/or temperment problems. JH

"side effect". Definately. But doesn't anyone one mind that rottweilers dont even come up over knee height? That you have to kneel down to pat them on the head!!!?
I must admit I would only keep a guarding breed ie GSD, Rotty, Dobe, Boerboel, Shiloh Shepherd, Tosa Inu, Dogo Argentino, Fila Brasileiro (obviously the last three are illegal in this country). When trained and homed correctly, with the right owner who respects them and most of all, loves them; are like Jackie Chan, they have great personalities whom you can have hours, days and years of fun with, a best friend... but mess with their family and loved ones...and your ******
I have a GSD, whom the family and I have invested time, love and energy behind. I love her to bits and wouldn't change anything about her for the world...... even though I pick up her toilet. But she is not for someone to stroke when bored, or a replacement child whom I've never had or who has now left home. She is my best friend when I'm at home (dont tell the missis!!!she might get jealous) and a soft cushion for the kids to cuddle up to. But when I'm not at home, I know my wife, kids, Mum and property are safe. This is the type of role in a family, that Rotty's should be bred to fit into.
Rotties will always live up to the Fierce Dog image when in wrong hands, and trying to cover this fact up by giving them a makeover which sees them smaller and more feminine is disgusing a Lion as a Lhasa Apso and saying to potential owners who then feel that they are "just another dog"...... "its ok....he doesn't bite"

Rotties are not my breed but I think I would rather have one that was knee high and fit than thigh high and not. I'm not saying that the taller dogs are unfit just that if the breeders in trying to correct problems inherent in their breeds, find that the breed is becoming smaller, then thats ok by me. It could be that the gene for size is in some way connected to the problem that they are trying to breed out, or that the healthier studs and broods happen to be the smaller ones. Rotties should start at 23" bitches to the tallest males at 27" and I for one would be happy to accept a bitch at say 22" and the top hight of 26" if that is what is needed to breed out a health problem. Hight is one of the easier things to breed back in once other problems have been eradicated.
Jackie

Jackie
I agree 100%. I would also rather have a healthier dog but I'm not talking about an inch either way. This is a loss of two to three inches. Lets not pretend thats its not because of people trying to make a quick buck from breeding, or even, sorry to say, people doing it for a hobby with insufficient resources and knowledge that have led to the uprise and increase of problems such as Hip Displacia in the first place. Nowthe sam type of breeders are going to replace one set of problems with another. Breed healthier but smaller rotties. If in future all rotty's were free of eg Hip Displacia but were all small, how would you breed height back in? Someone will say that they want them bigger, so they will introduce someother bigger breed of dog to gain height and weight. The same thing has happened to GSD's. You now have Shilloh Shepherds (to increase size of GSD's....glad to say only Gsd's with sound hips and good size were used...but that's how it should have been from the beginning), Utanogens (a mix of GSD, Husky and Malemute, to give the GSD a wolfier look....only it doesn't bark because of the husky/malemute mix) and even Designer Breeds( I'll have a bit of that and two scoops of that please sir!!!).
I read that Rottweilers were the guardian and protectors of the Roman armies, yet if any of the little rotties I saw at the exhibition were to bark at me, I would have kicked them half way across the room!! (Just expressing my emotions...RSPCA...CHILL OUT!!!).
Maybe if Rotty breeders only bred with sound dogs we wouldn't have a problem....but then I guess alot of "ordinary" breeders would then have to get proper jobs!!!!!!
I am in no way defending breeders who only breed for size and I comend breeders for breeding sound temperament Rotties and I know that if it wasn't for a lot of good breeder,on this site especially, that the breed would most definately have been banned by now, but I wish there was a balance. Any breeders, breeding with , sound temperament, health and large size in mind (IN THAT ORDER) please contact me via email, I am most definately interested.

What you forget is that the breed standard actually encompasses a large height range.

In my breed there is an ideal height for dogs and bitch's (inch difference) and the accepted toearance is for an inch or less under the ideal, and an ionch or just over above. Even then a top size animal next to a bottom size one appears quite large.

My own bitches mother 19 1/4 and built to match( RCCC winner so not a bad one), and her Champion daughter who is 20 1/4, and built like a brick out house (ideal bitch height is 19 1/2). There is 2 1/2 kg differnce in their weight, but daughter seems a much bigger animal all round!

The average difference betweena dog and bitch in my breed is an inch, but the extra male characteristics of broader head and body mean they are on average 7 Pounds heavier.

As long as the smaller rotts are still above the minimum height requirement of 23 inches, then that is fine, but they should also not be above the Maximum height either, and ideally somewhere in the middle. I am actually glad that I don't see so many gross rotties anymore, andhave seen some lovely well built ones with lovely muscle definition.

Look how strong the little Stafford is, a Rotty even at the smaller end of the scale should still make a good Guardian.

I am sure that breeders are not mating undersized stock to small mates, but take size into account trying to get a balance.

I accept your 2,3 and 4th paragraphs and I know that the standard is between 23 and 27(22 in america.....thats how you can tell an american author to a Uk author by the way) . Its just that at an Earls Court Exhibition about dog breeds(so I'm assuming that it was a "good" breeder) I saw her bitch at 21.....i was just wondering if that was the norm?
Thanks to breeders of Rotty's I have been assured that its not, even they agree that even males look like females these days. I glad I'm not the only one to notice these changes!!! The sort of muscular rotties that you like are exactly what I'm looking for, Big strong head, Deep, wide chest, small tight stomach and muscular legs(or whatever you guys call them), and when he is guarding the property, I do want potential intruders to be intimidated by his size.
I take your point about staffy's being strong even though they are small, but Staffy's and Rotty's were breed for different purposes. I guess that origins, ancestory etc of Dogs no longer matter. I suppose having millions of different breeders having different ideas about what a specific breed should look like means that what one man once considered a Rottweiler, no longer matters.

I am so pleased that this thread has come up, I have a Rottie, not as a show dog but as a loving member of my family, he is 2 years old and topsize ie, he comes through well known show lines but the Rotts that I have seen in the ring are so small compared to him, we were going to show him but were told not to bother "HE,S TOO BIG" , for the ring now, most of what I have seen are a lot smaller than him, but I am not bothered I still love him anyway, and theShepherds adore him

Janines
could you tell me where you got him from please?
Josh_