Hi,

Our black Cocker, Alfie, is nearly 3 years old but for about the last 3 months he has started becoming more aggressive, occasionally growling at us and recently snapping and catching my wife. He has snapped at me but soon cowered away from me and he shows his teeth but more in a frightened fashion with his tail between his legs as he moves into a corner.

He growls is someone is petting him and someone else approaches or if someone goes to pet him and he does not want to be disturbed.

He has also become more aggressive towards our in-laws golden Cocker, Oscar, who is 14 years old and completely harmless. He has bitten Oscar twice recently on both occasions Oscar was staying at our house.

A good number of years ago we bought a golden Cocker which was returned about 1 or 2 months after we got him as was extremely aggressive and was biting all family members.

We are worried about this being the case with Alfie but for the first 2 1/2 years he was incredibly friendly. Alfie was neutered when he was about 7 months old. His diet etc have all remained the same. We did spoil him and wondered if he was trying to become too dominant. I hope that is the case and he can get back to his old self shortly.

Any ideas what we can do?

My parents last cocker also black behaved the same way and was eventually diagnosed with cocker rage, my Mum battled on with him for 4yrs after my Dad died but had to place a board between her and Bruce when he was bad to get him to back off, after. 4 episodes one day she took him to the Vet and there was no option but to have him PTS, he was 10yrs old by then but she still blames herself 10yrs later.  Bruce was intact but the vets Mum spoke to over the years said neutering would not help.

We had always had cockers and Bruce was the only one we ever had problems with and he was the only black one, they didn't get a pedigree with him so don't know if he was inbred or not.

Had anything happened at home which could have triggered this off as some dogs are more sensitive to change than others and growling and showing teeth if they feel insecure.

Others may have practical help for you and hopefully you can improve his behaviour.

Alfie has always been quite a nervous dog and is often scared of silly things e.g. he does not like larger dogs approaching him when outside.

We have all the necessary papers for him and we got him from an approved KC Spaniel breeder.

I have read about rage but don't think it is as serious as that. You can often tell when he is going to growl and he has never snapped at us without first growling although he has bitten Oscar twice without any warning.

The first thing I would do is to have him checked out by a vet. He may have problems with his sight or his hearing or be in pain and this could account for the change in his behaviour. A vet's visit is a must if only to rule out any problem.

I would suggest you visit the vet and have him checked over for any medical conditions that can alter behaviour.  If given the all clear they can refer you to a reputable pet behaviourist from either

http://www.apbc.org.uk/
or

http://www.capbt.org/

Firstly, before you go down the Cocker rage route, has Alfie been vet checked? He may have eyesight problems, hearing difficulties or infection or just be in pain somewhere which would also account for his behaviour. My mother was once called to a dog showing many of the symptoms you speak of and the poor dog had a bad tooth which was causing great pain and the reason why he would not allow himself to be touched and growled when anyone came near, so get the vet check first and foremost, you may well find another medical problem for the behaviour.

Cocker rage has been eliminated from good breeders lines, I've not personally heard of any cases in a long time, but of course depending on the knowledge of the breeder, lines used etc....... I'd never say never, if you got Alfie from a breeder who does not understand what they are doing it's a possibility it could be rage. Out of interest what does Alfie's breeder say about this?

It's very difficult on a forum to know what behviour a dog is showing and to judge on that, and to also be able to see how you are treating and training Alfie whether issues have arisen through misunderstandings of body language etc, which is why a recommended behaviourist after a vet check is the best person to contact to assess first hand.

I hope that it is a problem that can be sorted, fingers crossed. :-)

Thanks for replies.

I am waiting on a Vet appointment for him and I have also contacted a local behaviourist via the APBC website. Hopefully both routes will be explored within the next week at the most.

Will give the breeder a call and seek their opinion too. From memory (my wife dealt with most of this) he was from a line of dogs which had won various awards etc and was KC registered etc. Because of previous family experience with an extremely aggressive Spaniel, we did a fair bit of research on the breeder etc.

He has always been obedient but can be very nervous and we wondered if we had accidentally done something which has triggered this off. If he misbehaves, he sometimes sits shaking and gets worked up over silly things and needs a fair bit of reassuring. We thought he may be becoming too possessive for me or my wife.

Hopefully we will get things resolved.

Have to just add....that I have never had a black one...(or any other one for that matter)....but I know people who have....

Not much to add...except to say.....I hope you get it sorted....!

Best Wishes

H x :)

Can I just add that cocker rage is a lot of nonsense.  It has now been studied in depth and is just something vets say now.  It really doesn't exsist.  Cockers are working dogs with working brains, they really aren't you're average lap dogs.  Sure, some lines are far more docile and lazy than others but they still are clever little dogs.
I had some blacks and the only difference I found was the coat was thicker and they are much noisier.  I have a golden and a blue roan and tan at the min.  What I am reading from your posts is you have a cocker ruling the roost.  They do this so easily and with those big brown eyes and flapping eyelashes, they get away with it!!
I would go back to basics with him.  Treat him like a dog.  He should no longer be allowed upstairs or on furniture. Everyone in the house should eat first.  Make him work for his food meaning loads of obedience training.  You are the boss.  If you let your parents dog into the house, then your dog must accept this.  No-one in the house should approach him unless totally confident that you are going to make him do what it is you want.  Confidence.
But I would get a behaviourist in if you are unsure.  And he does need a vet check to rule out pain.
Neutered dogs are also less confident as a rule so he is just 'getting in there first', so to speak.

Can I just add that cocker rage is a lot of nonsense.

Well I had one. Total Jekyll and Hyde. One moment happy and friendly as anything, the next moment would just go for you without warning (no growling or anything). NEVER had any other dogs anything like it. I wasn't inexperienced with dogs even back then (got this bitch in 1988). After 4 years I gave up and put her to sleep as I'd had a baby and just could not trust the dog anymore. If she bit me and my husband, there was too much of a risk she'd bite the baby.

Treat him like a dog.  He should no longer be allowed upstairs or on furniture. Everyone in the house should eat first.

Now THAT truly is a load of nonsense, which has been proved so many times. It makes no difference whatsoever if the dog eats before you or after you (why should it? It isn't even always the alphas that eat first in the wild!), sleep on your bed or go up the stairs. They don't try to dominate people and we're not part of their packs.  However back in the 80s/90s I still believed in this myself, and yes, this is exactly how my Cocker was treated. Made no difference!!

Echo the suggestions of vet, but I see you are on that already.  I would also suggest that the vet does a full thyroid panel - not just T4 or TSH as neither is a good test by themselves, but a full panel (T4, T3, TSH + thyoid antibodies at a minimum).  This oculd explain his behaviour.

Likewise I would also recommend a chiropractor - vets do not always pick up everything, my old vet told me my oldest dobermann had a slight touch of arthritis in one hip when in reality, her entire pelvis was tilted and twisted and she had several wonky vertebrae too.  It was making her own aggression a lot worse at the time and every time she starts to get more snippish now, I ring the chiropractor - last time she was getting really nasty, one visit revealed that her lower back was extremely painful and wonky for some reason but after one treatment she was unbelieveably better with the other dogs (and me) and has been ever since.

Can I ask how you and your family respond to the dog, say when he's done something he shouldn't have etc?  It may be that with him already being a sensitive dog, however you are approaching it is too much for him and he's starting to snap (not saying you hit him or anything, just that some dogs - including my youngest - are just very sensitive and the slightest bit too much can push them to these reactions over time).

Just to add:

> I would go back to basics with him.  Treat him like a dog.  He should no longer be allowed upstairs or on furniture. Everyone in the house should eat first.  Make him work for his food meaning loads of obedience training.  You are the boss.  If you let your parents dog into the house, then your dog must accept this.  No-one in the house should approach him unless totally confident that you are going to make him do what it is you want. 

This sort of regime is EXACTLY what pushed Raine to start trying to bite.  For moths she was trying to tell her people and the trainer that she wasn't comfortable (which was why she mucked around) - for months those signals were ignored because nobody knew anything about dog body language, and ultimately it led to her become seriously aggressive.  That last line, incidentally, about approaching the dog - that is precisely what was happening on the day I got the phonecall: they wanted her off the furniture, she was getting worried and staying very still, so they were trying to make her get off - and she was biting.

Fortunately the owners gave up on her as soon as that behaviour started so she came straight to me - here she is not made to do anything, she is treated with respect; if she is at all unsure about something then I either back off it completely, or reassure her/lure her to do it if it's something that really does need doing.  She is allowed on the furniture; at night, we have a little play in bed before she takes herself off to sleep wherever she wants; while I'm working she spends her time either playing or fetching small items of laundry for whatever snacks I have; she eats at 6/7pm with the other dogs regardless of when I eat.

Well firstly dominance 'theory' has been found to be a load of bunkum in most cases!  Dogs yes should be dogs and not allowed to become pack leaders, but mostly the issue is humans over dominating!  Secondly it sounds like he's very nervous and fearful, so more dominance certainly is going to make this considerably worse!  You may consider that early neutering can cause such behaviour - neutering is best done when the dog is mature, in small dogs at least over 18months and better to be over 2 years old.  Behavioural issues may be caused by neutering - certainly when done early (7 months is too early).

Also, consider his food.  I had a dog who as a puppy exhibited all sorts of terrible rage like behaviour (not a spaniel) - you could tell she wasn't in control of herself and would bite, race around for hours and then fall exhausted in a heap.  It was awful to watch.  My vet said to take her back, but that was going to be a very last resort!  Most people said I was imagining it, but I wasn't. Vet then suggested to change her food which I did - moved her to tinned tripe and a mixer.  Changed her completely and immediately!  No more rage!  It didn't return other than a time she stole the cat biscuits and became very hyper!  Diet can be a factor.

I'd suggest that this is fear related and that you should seek a behaviourist to help.  Please don't start a 'dominance' regime as this will make him worse.  Look at his diet, his exercise and training.

>If he misbehaves, he sometimes sits shaking and gets worked up over silly things and needs a fair bit of reassuring.

Just a thought, but often what an owner intends to be reassurance is perceived by the dog as praise; if you say a soothing "Good boy" when he's exhibiting these nervous behaviours, and you also say "Good boy" when he's doing what you want, then it could be that you're inadvertently encouraging the unwanted behaviour.

Well, I've got a black cocker who is allowed on the furniture, is spoilt rotten, eats before me, is fussed whenever he likes, etc, etc, and he's got the softest, sweetest temperament with all people and all dogs.

I agree, vet check first, then behaviourist, but if they come in going on about dominance I'd ask them to leave pronto. JMO

Having an American cocker that showed rage type symptoms (towards dogs though, not people), that turned out to be hypothyroidism, it is extremely important to get a full comprehensive thyroid test to exclude that (particularly as it suddenly started).

A proper vet check (including bloods) is necessary before even a behaviourist is considered.

Not the same breed I know..but a few years ago we had a Westie...lovely dog for a good while. Gradually he became very untrustworthy...growling at my husband and I. He was extremely protective of my daughter to the point where we couldnt touch her..not even a hug. The vet we went to at the time was also a behaviourist and said Dominance Aggression was the problem. We tried everything he suggested but Ben just got worse...to the point where he was barking at 5 in the morning, not to be let out, but simply because he wanted to be with my daughter. He was fed last and had to be kept in the kitchen when we ate as he would snap at our ankles and growl and snarl if he wasnt fed first...little dog and I was scared of him and he knew it. The final straw was when my husband was telling our daughter off..not shouting but definite telling off..the dog flew at him and bit him several times. We rang our vet, took him in (the dog, not hubby) for a check up to get some more advice which was, nothing more could be done, by the time the vet had checked him he too had been bitten and we made the very hard but sensible decision (for us) to have Ben pts. We did everything we thought we could..went back to basics and started again as the vet said, but nothing worked.

I really hope you can sort your cocker out, good luck:)

Wow, I was only giving my opinion of a breed that has been in my family for generations.
My old red girl, if I am not completely in control, she takes over, always.  They are very dominant little dogs and very clever.  This was the only point I was trying to get across.  Do whatever training method you like but you need to take charge. 
Also, I did say that I would get him a full vet check.  And I mentioned that I would enlist the help of a behaviourist too.  Sounds exactly like every cocker I've ever known.  Headstrong and clever.
Good luck.
PS  The NILIF method(although I don't use on my cockers) is proven to be excellent at getting results from dominant dogs and is recommended by many (dominant) breed rescues including the one I volunteer with.

You're totally missing the point cracar. There IS no such thing as a dominant dog (to people) or dominant breed. It's a misconception -almost like believing the world is flat and you can fall over the edge. Here's one of the most recent articles:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/house-and-home/pets/features/hounded-out-why-dogs-are-struggling-to-fit-into-modern-life-2307771.html
I can give you another dozen articles or more quoting actual research if you so wish......

> PS  The NILIF method(although I don't use on my cockers) is proven to be excellent at getting results from dominant dogs and is recommended by many (dominant) breed rescues including the one I volunteer with.

Just becasue a dog can learn that obeying commands gets them what they want, does not mean they are dominant, it only proves what we allready know - not all dogs are out to please thier owners they like to please thierselfs. NILF shows the dog that the owner gives the dog WHAT IT WANTS (dog must 'work' fo everything) when the dog does what the owner wants it to, so therfore obeying the owner is a good thing.

I doubt there are many dogs that have been trained from a pup, by a person that has treated the dog as a dog and been consistent with rules, that would behave any differently with the NILF thingy implimented than they do allready. But, for dogs that have had poor/inconsitent training, NILF is a clear way of getting the message over to the dog that 'do what the humans say = rewarding' :)
allthough it is called 'Nothing In Life is Free' it could equally be called 'do what I say and you get good things', but that doesn't sound very 'dominant' (it would also have a silly abrv. 'DWISAYGGT'!)

This little dog doesn't sound like he's trying to 'dominate' though - he sounds like he's either in pain, ill, or genuinely frightened for some reason.  'Taking charge' won't make any difference whatsoever to any of those behaviours - he's not doing what he's doing to gain some measure of control over the family; or to get his own way; or for attention.

My breed are considered a 'dominant' breed and as such are often subject to rank reduction programs and far too firm, physical handling - all in the name of taking charge, when in reality, they are anything but 'dominant', they are just very independant and the very best way to get through to them is through simply rewarding what you like.

The problem with NILIF is when the dominance-headed owners start using it for absolutely everything, in complete contrast to how the dog has been living: for example, the dog used to be able to ask for a fuss; now it is ignored until it does what it's asked.  Might not sound much but to some dogs, when their whole home life and routine changes like that, it can cause them huge stress.

> The problem with NILIF is when the dominance-headed owners start using it for absolutely everything, in complete contrast to how the dog has been living: for example, the dog used to be able to ask for a fuss; now it is ignored until it does what it's asked. Might not sound much but to some dogs, when their whole home life and routine changes like that, it can cause them huge stress.

It does sound bad like that :( I imagine it could be very unsettling for an allready fearfull/nervous dog.

for example, the dog used to be able to ask for a fuss; now it is ignored until it does what it's asked.  Might not sound much but to some dogs, when their whole home life and routine changes like that, it can cause them huge stress.

Interesting quotes from the article I posted a link to:
Other 'commandments', however, such as the admonishment against cuddling or stroking the dog, seem aimed at taking much of the pleasure out of keeping a dog, turning dog-keeping from a joy into a challenge.
and
dogs whose owners liked to play contact games, such as rough-and-tumble, were noticeably more attached to their owners than those that were usually kept at arm's length

I've read Goldmali's link, and I can only agree. The days of 'dominance' are over, and who would honestly want to follow a protocol that appears to suck all the joy out of dog ownership?

I stand by my signature on here, which was said by James Thurber (an American writer and dog lover/owner) in the 1950's... and is apparently backed up by all recent research. I don't know what's happened in between - except for a lot of misery in a lot of dogs' lives.

The relationship between dog and human is something to be treasured, celebrated and loved - not treated with suspicion when it's there in its purest form.

I've read Goldmali's link, and I can only agree. The days of 'dominance' are over, and who would honestly want to follow a protocol that appears to suck all the joy out of dog ownership?

I stand by my signature on here, which was said by James Thurber (an American writer and dog lover/owner) in the 1950's... and is apparently backed up by all recent research. I don't know what's happened in between - except for a lot of misery in a lot of dogs' lives.

The relationship between dog and human is something to be treasured, celebrated and loved - not treated with suspicion when it's there in its purest form.

moments like this I wish this forum had a 'like' button. :)

> Having an American cocker that showed rage type symptoms (towards dogs though, not people), that turned out to be hypothyroidism, it is extremely important to get a full comprehensive thyroid test to exclude that (particularly as it suddenly started).
>
>

I do wonder if historically these Rage diagnoses were in fact hypothyroidism which Dr Dodds says is a major cause of unexplained aggression.

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/bizarre_behavior.htm

Especially as it tends to be hereditary as it was found that 'Rage' was in certain bloodlines.

> Especially as it tends to be hereditary as it was found that 'Rage' was in certain bloodlines.

That is very interesting - certainly makes the case for hypothyroidism as a potential cause stronger.  I always tell people to test for that if I see a case of sudden onset aggression, unless there's a very obvious cause (such as one case where the stress of the life for the dog was at unbearable levels and had been for some time, he'd just finally snapped).

im wondering if my bitch may have some thyroid problem, she had a fight with my other bitch again today due to the postman putting letters in the door, she just went for my other bitch, really hard to get them apart but by some miracle, neither injured this time. she seems to start it but im really not sure, maybe my other bitch gives off a sign first that we cant see? curled lip maybe?
shes not a cocker but is black! looking up thyroid probs though, it usualy goes with weight gain or loss and poor coat condition, neither apply to her
i think shes just a hypo dog, i have tried a calming herb pill (forget name) but no change in her yet sob
im nearing the end of my teather

shes not a cocker but is black! looking up thyroid probs though, it usualy goes with weight gain or loss and poor coat condition, neither apply to her

Not necessarily... my American cocker was hypothyroid with no weight gain/loss or any other typical thyroid symptoms other than recurring skin infections. He did however show quite severe aggression towards my other dogs, which has completely stopped since being on medication! (Though just missing one tablet can bring it back!).