Hi,
My pups (medium size gundog) are now 5 days old and my bitch has developed mastitis (literally today) been to vets got antibiotics etc. but I have had to take them away completely. So I already have Royal Canin babydog 1st Stage milk as I wanted to be ready in case I had to hand feed them. But everywhere I have read say's to feed every 2 hours, however the instructions for this milk says 8 feeds over a 24 hour period. Has any one used this brand and could you tell me if you fed to these instructions.
Thanks very much

Has your vet told you to take the pups away as I believe a lot of vets advise still letting the pups suckle? By stopping then the milk can build up making the situation worse.
Also it is very important to keep the pups with mum even if they can't suckle so she can do the toileting etc.
As to the feeding I am sorry I cant help with that as I have thankfully not had to feed a litter. I do hope things settle down soon

Unfortunately the vet told me to take them away which was heart breaking when I put my girl back without them! But the vet did say its their disgression to whether to tell you whether to take them away or not as the antibiotics the bitch has to take doesn't say if its safe to give to a lactating bitch so he said he'd rather be safe then sorry. But if I were to leave them with the bitch then there's a chance they might suckle therefore take in the antibiotics.
Thanks anyways

i hand reared 10 pups on r/c and fed every 2hrs when i lost my girl after a c/s and they did very well on it but i agree with other commentsthey do need there mum why cant he give you a different antibiotic synulux ?ive had bitches on this while feeding pups vest of luck  but mum would be best

It might be worth re posting this question with a new title in Breeding - or ask Admin to do it for you.

I don't have girls, and don't intend to breed BUT in the years I've been on CD I've read a lot of sound advice on these topics and I'd be inclined to listen to very experienced breeders rather than a vet with no breeding knowledge.  Do you have a breeding mentor you can talk to?  What about your girls breeder or the stud dog owner?

If you get your post moved you'll get more replies :)   Good luck

I have to agree that Mum feeding and caring for them is the best option,it will stop her from becoming engorged and sore,hopefully you have caught the infection before it has got too bad.

What problems other than poo being a bit runnier are the pups likely to get, I would Google the antibiotic and see what it says.

It is 2 hourly feeds for first 7 days then 3 hourly till they are weaned which is usually earlier in the case of hand reared pups.

Keep us posted

>Unfortunately the vet told me to take them away which was heart breaking

I don't understand why.  And, to be fair, your vet, if not a breeder, will not really be thinking about the importance of mum bonding with her pups.  Your bitch will be distraught.

>the antibiotics the bitch has to take doesn't say if its safe to give to a lactating bitch so he said he'd rather be safe then sorry 

  I would have been emphatic with my vet, and insisted on antibiotics that are safe for lactating bitches.  It's not as if there aren't any choices.  Mastitis is a common topic on here, and most breeders I know would definitely be encouraging pups to suckle.

As to hand rearing, I would say every two hours, day and night.  But I still think your vet is wrong to prescribe a drug that he isn't sure of.  That is a bad call.

I would rather my girl doing it and my breeder has never had to hand rear pups nor has he ever had a cleft pallet and he has my bitches mum and older sister and he has breed a couple of litters from both plus 2 other bitches! He cant believe it but he also hasn't had it happen to himself to KNOW any different. I thought that she would still  care for them but being a vet (and not knowing if he breed's dog's or not) I asked him if it was possible to do anything to keep them with her and he said he didn't think it was the best option for the mum or bitch. He prescriped galastop which basically dries the bitch up and noroclav.

My bitch developed a bad mastitis when the pups were six days old.  My Vet put her on synulox and never mentioned separating her from her pups.  Left her with them and within 3 days all was back to normal. 

I'm going to speak to the vet that done the tail docking on them tomorrow (he's not the vet I went to today) first thing and see what he says about putting them back with their mum I'm home all day tomorrow so I can stay in the kennel with them and make sure she takes to them. I hate people that do stuff like that people that you put faith into because you think they are trying to help, although I should know they just want to take your money and hurry up ad get the next poor customer through their door. My other bitch cost me £800+ a couple of years back and she was never even diagnosed (was same symptoms to rat poison, I believe it to be to do with separation anxiety).
I just hope she will have them back

No way would a I give a bitch with pups galastop , why by choice would you want to dry her milk up ?

I have a bitch on Noroclav feeding pups , prescribed by a vet who knows she is feeding also with no side efects

My bitch got Mastitis on Boxing day literally within hours, when pups were 10 days old.

Pups stayed with Mum and the Vet told me they would not suckle from the infected gland.  I had to strip this and it was like Tomato soup at first, then Mushroom soup.  Had to alternate warm and cod compresses to loosen the congestion.

Bitch was quite poorly, but the pups continued to gain weight (though perhaps not as fast for a few days, but after the AB's kicked in all was well and pups thrived.

Many vets not experienced with breeding will suggest taking pups away, but it is rarely needed unless the AB's are dangerous to the puppies or the bitch is critically ill.

The stress to pups and their Mum is probably far worse than the extra strain of dealing with infection on top of motherhood.

Keep the pups on her, they will do her good feeding as the glands wont get congested. When it comes to vets they havent a clue re breeding, and some im wonder if they have a clue about anything (some not all, but i seem to have been questioning why they dont do veterinary interns like they do in America so they can experience before they are allowed to consult) AND NEVER IS IT MORE IMPORTANT TO HAVE A MENTOR THAN WHEN FIRST VENTURING INTO BREEDING. Someone that knows what they are doing has experienced the good and the bad, to be a reassuring aid and on your head be it if you dont take their advice. Listen and take notes to those on here.

Puppies need her milk and the antibodies, i posted a topic a while back on a litter handled badly by vets they lost another pup at 5 weeks old because of the strain to fight off infection because he had no colostrum.

>I'm going to speak to the vet that done the tail docking on them tomorrow

I do hope that you will come back and let us know how you get on.  I do believe that you have not been given the best advice, and hope that you have already stopped the Galastop.  I would be so unhappy with the advice given.

Hey everyone I spoke to the vet (that had tail docked them on the Sunday), as early as possible who told me to put them back together asap and basically said that my vet didn't have a clue. So happy as a pig in s**t was I to reunite my girlie with her puppies :-) she was also as happy as a pig in s**t lol. The night in was very stressful as they did not want to feed, but I did manage to get them to poop and wee. They are doing brilliant at the mo they are 10 days old and between 900 and 1100g. mastitis has pretty much cleared although there is a lump under her teat!? But she is doing well which is the main thing.
I did ring my vet up Monday morning and rip him a bit as my girlie was looking pretty suicidel that night and I did panic that if they hadn't have gone back to her we 'could' have lost her. I tell people so often that vets have given them stupid advice and then go and full for it myself!!!
Main thing mum and pups doing well, just going to give her walk round bloke as she is doing her nut trying to go out.

Thanks everyone for your much welcomed help xXx

Is she getting her milk back after putting her on the Galastop?  Keep massaging the lumpy breast.

Glad that they have all been reunited, here's hoping it is fine from now on.

so glad all is well now :) x

If she was prescirbed galastop you want to make sure she has regained milk. Weight them daily.

I only ever gave her the one dose of galastop the night she went to the vet as she was back with them the next morning. They have all been putting weight on well since then they are now 3weeks and 2 days old and weigh between 1900 and 2600g .
Only one problem the dog puppy had the runs slightly two days ago and now stopped eating, but his poo's are back to normal. The big bitch pup had them 2 days before that and was a bit lethargic that day but is her crazy self again now. The dog has never been as outgoing as the two bitches so him not eating or playing seems worse (but is fairly normal as he doesn't play as much as the girls.) I've been syringe feeding him water as he looked dehydrated but his coat is looking much better this morning (doesn't look dehydrated), I have also given him a little bit of royal canin starter mouse to give him a bit of food and thought that a highly scented mushed meat would tempt him (it did a little but not overly so).  He can stand up really well and stands for quite a while so he is still strong.
Also I have had a cough for last 2 weeks and a cold before that, could he have caught that as he sounds stuffy when he breathes? (I've basically had it since before they were born, but if hes had the runs could he have caught it when he was running a bit low).

I also thought it could possibly be worms as I have panacur I started it yesterday and so they had their second dose this morning and their third and final dose will be tommorow.

As (if you read from the beginning) you will see why I am reluctant to go back to my vet (and the vet that docked them is on holiday). Plus I received a lot more useful and correct information from this website (which I am extremely grateful). But if I should go to the vet then obviously I will. My bitches breeder has said to me not to worry, and that I spend too much time with them and worrying about them (he is actually an outstanding breeder who has breed a lot of fantastic dogs) but he literally just feeds them and cleans them for the first few weeks then when about 5 weeks he starts paying them attention. So he says it probably happens to his pups but he doesn't see and he has NEVER lost a puppy! (I know as he is my brother in law)

Oh and the bitches have started on watered down royal canin mother and starter which they seem to like, as their teeth are almost all the way through and very sharp lol. So are the dogs teeth, but he won't even feed off mum.

Sorry for the essay
Thanks in advance

i had had this breed and at 3weeks mine have been eating very well but it was a very big litter if your boy dont start to eat soon try them on pedigree puppy meat warmed up in the micro and add it to there soaked food its the smell they go for ,i was told this on here and my goodness mine loved it and it got them weaning straight away! small litters tend to start to eat well from this age so good luck and fingers crossed your boy starts to pick up now hes been wormed! x

Unofrtunatley my boy passed away . He started picking up a bit he was re hydrated and I syringe fed him milk formula he even had a normal poo and so I thought great he will be ok. At 2.30 yesterday morning I woke up saying to my other half that I wanna check on him to make sure hes ok, when I got to there door the mum was going bit hypo and as I opened the door he started screaming like a baby crying. I rushed in and he was trying to bring something up so I tapped him on back (as if to burp) then I rubbed his back. He stopped heaving  but he started just gasping, last breath. I was distraught as after he went he brought up blood from his nose and mouth, it was horrible to see.
Well a few days ago his mummy had dug a BIG hole in my top flower bed (not impressed at the time) so I buried the little guy in there and put a few stone over the top.

im so sorry to read this and even worse when they get to over 3weeks of age :( my heart goes out to you (((hugs))) R.I.P little boy run free at rainbow bridge xxxxxx

Thanks :-)

So sorry that the little chap didn't make it,may he RIP.

He may have had a genetic/congenital abnormality which wasn't obvious without extensive investigations.

I hope the girls go from strength to strength.

Thanks so do I, I'm so worried bout them I thought they were at a safe age.

A breeder friend of mine lost 3 out of 5 pups at 5 weeks old over 4 days,so it can happen at any age, the vet found no reason even after a post mortem on one of them, he put it down to something like cot death in humans.

Your pup had been poorly for a while so you knew his death had to be connected in some way.