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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / potential owners want to use homeopathic vaccines only (locked)
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- By shivj [gb] Date 07.07.11 08:58 UTC
Me too, I use 2 vets and both have 3 yearly booster programmes, except for lepto I believe, which lasts less than 12 months but is typically given annually.
Personally, I would not feel happy with excluding a pup from a vaccination programme that I was carrying out for the best interests of the whole litter. Training and socialising classes will require the pup to have proper vacs, so you'll know that the pup will not be attending any of these in future.
It is a myth that conventional medicine can be replaced by homeopathic remedies as they are completely different concepts. It is the responsibility of the new owners to weigh up the risks and benefits of any health therapy for their pet, but until the pup is handed over, that pup is your responsibility and they should respect that. If you are worrying about losing a puppy home, then I would suggest that they are not as great a home as might be assumed. Anyone who really wants a particular pup will and should trust the breeder and their methods. The trust works both ways.
- By Merlot [gb] Date 07.07.11 09:17 UTC
I never vaccinate pups before they go as with a large breed they are not due by the time the pups leave at 8 weeks. I suppose with some toy breeds that stay longer with the breeder this could be an issue. I would just follow whatever you normally do and if the new owners are unhappy with this then it is thier choice to go elswhere. What they do after they leave with reguard to vaccinations is up to them. If you are happy with them as new owners in every other way then let the pup go if they still are happy to have him under your terms.
We cannot dictate to our new owners that they MUST do as we want. In reality once that pup has changed hands it is thiers to do what they want with. We can only do our checks and recomend various things, we can place endorsements and ask that pups be returned if re-homed but we cannot stop them breeding or re-homing at will.
Just explain that this is the way you do things and let them make up thier own minds what they want to do.
Aileen
- By furriefriends Date 07.07.11 09:42 UTC
I recently had aconverstaion wit my vet re vaccines and discovered the reason they choose to booster annual is for ease. Clients will come annually but get muddled when it is at different frequencies and also guess that the vets recall system is not up to where it could be.

back to the opI am glad thetitle has been changed as although I am sure you did not mean to offend I would be offended to be described as weird just because I had different views however that being said they are your babies. It is your descion after due consideration if you feel that these people are not going to look after your pups they way you would like. Hopefully if they are perfect in every other way some of the replies here will have helped you decide how you feel at least about puppy vaccines and that you can find a compromise. If not they will go elsewhere and I wish you well in finding good forever homes for your babies  
- By Goldmali Date 07.07.11 09:56 UTC
The horrific spread of parvo throughout the world in the seventies...was in direct Correlation with the introduction of the vaccine into each country....


Some of us are old enough to remember when parvo first appeared and how there was NO vaccine available for it and lots of breeders lost entire litters and adults too -in fact CAT vaccines were tried in a desperate attempt to help before a specific one had been manufactured.
- By Goldmali Date 07.07.11 09:59 UTC
I never vaccinate pups before they go as with a large breed they are not due by the time the pups leave at 8 weeks. I suppose with some toy breeds that stay longer with the breeder this could be an issue

I had 4 Papillon pups vaccinated yesterday, first one, and made an appointment for the second to be done in 2 weeks. They won't be going anywhere until 2 weeks after second vacc. The BIGGEST weighs 1 kg so you can imagine how tiny they are. :) The vet agreed with me it seems very small toy pups react more to being vaccinated so apart from all other issues with toys, I'd not be happy for new owners to vaccinate in case something went wrong.
- By Merlot [gb] Date 07.07.11 10:07 UTC
At birth my pups weigh in at just over 1/2 kg....by 8 weeks they are over 10 kg...all of yours wouldn't make one of mine Goldmali !!!!! I can quite understand why you keep them close for longer.
Aileen
- By Lacy Date 07.07.11 10:11 UTC
is it silly to think that they could alter the dose for the size of the pup?
- By Merlot [gb] Date 07.07.11 10:16 UTC
I Imagin they do !
Aileen
- By Lacy Date 07.07.11 10:23 UTC
apparently not, having just looked on http://www.noah.co.uk/issues/briefing doc/12-dogva.htm
- By Merlot [gb] Date 07.07.11 10:26 UTC
I wonder why not !!
Anyone out there in cyber space know ??
- By LJS Date 07.07.11 10:44 UTC
Just guessing that the vaccines have to have a certain amount of the virus in the dose for it to be effective and so whether you are a big or small dog the body and systems that help with immunity are the same. It just gets to the place it needs to sooner in a small dog than a larger dog as it has shorter blood vessels. Not a scientific answer just a guess based on logic :-)
- By furriefriends Date 07.07.11 10:51 UTC
Good question will ask my sil homeopath if i can get hold of her for the answer.
Just to say jg interesting link for the homeopathic vet assocition re vaccines I had not read that before. My only comment ios i woulfd like to kno if they have any further update or does that view still hold as it is a fwew years old. if not it reassures me that i am right in usually doing the puppy vaccs.
- By rumble [gb] Date 07.07.11 11:26 UTC
For over 30 yrs I have used Homoeopathic nosodes instead of vaccinations I check with doing the titre test every few years and results are always high
I use homoeopathic remedies where possible with great results
Well done the new puppy owner for doing some research before they buy the new puppy
If you are not comfortable with them wanting to use the nosodes Simple don't sell them a puppy !
- By ali-t [gb] Date 07.07.11 11:28 UTC

>  This is not the place for a debate about whether vaccinations are necessary - it's been done many times already. Can we stick to giving advice to the OP please ie how do other breeders feel about selling pups to owners with a different approach to vaccinations than their own.


To keep it on track - the only reason the OP is having doubts is because the potential owner has asked the question! 

If the potential new owner had asked "do you give the 1st vacs before the pups leave?" the OP would have been none the wiser of the owners plans.  This leads me to query how many others don't vaccinate but just don't ask the question the way the the potential owners in the OP did.

I don't breed but have a feeling that many owners bring up their dogs differently than I bring mine up but I wouldn't say they are bad owners,just different.  My own view is that if the vaccinations is the only thing that the OP is unsure about, they need to speak to the potential owners, outline their concerns and see if the OP can have her fears allayed.  TBH I don't think the breeders views on vaccinations should come into it.
- By tina s [gb] Date 07.07.11 22:47 UTC
Its the Parvo/Lepto Vaccine that kills puppies and older dogs....and NOT the parvo virus itself.....

have i read this correctly? are you claiming the vaccine kills dogs but the disease doesnt?
and how is it a 'man made' virus?
- By agilabs Date 08.07.11 07:38 UTC
I would try and chat to them and find out if this is just for vaccines and do they have a particular reason? if they've had a dog react I could understand it more.
If their preferred method of treatment for all things is homoeopathy then I would run a mile! I'm sorry to anybody who does believe in it but I have absolutely no belief in homoeopathy whatsoever and would feel the same way as if someone told me they were going to rely on the power of prayer. I would want any pup I felt responsible for to see a proper vet when necessary.
They didn't have to be honest with you but for me, just because they were up-front about it doesn't mean they should get a puppy as a reward for telling you! no need to be unkind about it, I would just say sorry but I'm not happy with that method of treatment. 
I'd like to hear how you get on, be interesting to know why they've chosen that route.
- By white lilly [gb] Date 08.07.11 08:02 UTC
this is my take on this and not getting at any1, i feel that if these people know what their talking about and can give a pup a happy loveing home then i really dont see the problem! we all want whats best for dogs and pups thats why we find the best homes for them, just because someone is going agenst what most would do doesnt make it wrong in my eyes ,i alway use the vets for some things but i also use rakki on my dogs too ,there are some great homoepathic remadies out there too, you have to do what feels right for you ,speak indepth with them ask lots of questions you might be surpised! all the best xx
- By FreedomOfSpirit [gb] Date 08.07.11 12:50 UTC
Thankyou for your open-minded response White Lilly...

The Parvo/Lepto vaccine IS a major culprit in ill-health....but if you ask your vet for just a single Parvo vaccine...you are likely to be told that you will have to buy The whole box...! This when each vaccine costs only pennies....! 

I have YET another example from MY OWN EXPERIENCE....

In Missy's last Litter of six...only one has been vaccinated...I have kept Leo...My daughter Cathy....has Peggy...and Fiona and James....My tenants have Nelson....none of these have suffered even a days ill health....

This week...Olly...their brother.... has had to be rushed to the vets due to being sick and lethargic...vet kept him in for tests and observations which showed nothing.....including a biopsy of his kidney...sumised that it MAY...have been an unspecified poison...and sent him home with....yes you guessed it...a prescription diet...that Olly just won't touch (they have asked for a refund)....antibiotics...and suggested seeing him again in a fortnight. Two days ago Olly had to be rushed back in again being sick....(most likely as a reaction to the antibiotics...and his biopsy)

He is home now...lost loads of weight...and having to rest...He is also freaked out at being away from Sarah and Aaron....and has suffered chronic diarreah... (Vet bill...best part of 500 quid)

My own feeling is that Olly in the first instance....suffered heat stroke...and had they asked Me first I would have suggested Homeopathic Belladonna and Arsenicum...and wrapping Him in Cold wet towels.....and assessed Him the next morning...

As it stands...Olly is now considerably frailer than his unvaccinated brothers and sisters....and has a compromised immune system already at the tender age of approx four months...(I knew instantly that they had decided to vaccinate...even before they told me...because he looked poorley...and had green dots of gunge in the corners of his eyes immediately following his jab...)

Like I have mentioned before...once your puppy is in the hands of a conventional vet....it is extremely difficult.....especially for first time puppy owners...to stand their ground....

I stand by what I said earlier....that these puppy-buyers obviously have experience enough to be questioning YOUR protocol....and if it were Me...I would be engaging them in conversation...rather than dismissing them as "Weird"....
- By JaneS (Moderator) Date 08.07.11 13:24 UTC
I'm closing this now as a continuing debate about conventional vaccines v homeopathic vaccines does not really belong on this board and I think the OP has had enough responses from breeders to decide what she wants to do now re these buyers. If anyone wants to discuss vaccinations further, please start a new thread on the Health board or perhaps the Contraversial Stuff board
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / potential owners want to use homeopathic vaccines only (locked)
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