I had my bitch scanned today and the vet said she couldn't see anything, she said any lumps she has seen are in the gut or to do with the gut etc, she is a giant breed 2.5 years old and still kind of raw looking in body, she had several slip mating and a 10 minuit tie, she would be around 4 - 4.5 weeks now ( first mating 3rd june and then the 5th June ) signs so far , really lazy, gone off food the last week, had a pale green discharge day 10 onwards cleared up now still has a small ammount of clear jelly/discharge when she pee's, her mamary glands seem larger and her nipples also larger but not bright pink.

how accurate are vets at confirming a pregnancy by scanning, the scanning was only about 5-10 mins the rest was getting her to lie down and shaving etc.

dont know if we should just accept it and get over the dissapointment or too carry on as if she is ...

such a dissapointment, oh the joys of breeding :-(

A 10 minute scan is a good time. If there are pups there my vets can see them within 30 seconds. They are very obvious, even to me, now I know what I'm looking for. Until the passage of times proves otherwise I would still treat her as if she is pregnant, scans have been known to be wrong. If there are none I would think she is having a phantom, which seem to be quite common.

Did she have antibiotics to clear up the green discharge?

yes she had Noroclav for 7 days.  the vet only scanned one side and she had just had a wee outside would this make a difference , my mentor/breeder said they wouldnt 100% trust the scan so to go on as if she is.

just wondering how many others have been told no puppies and acutally have some..

We just had a scan yesterday at 5 weeks and found no puppies too.  I keep thinking there might be the tiniest hope that she's hiding one in her handbag maybe...but I know the scanner is very experienced and she had a good rummage around  for a good 10 minutes and could see nothing, and at 5 weeks there should be something to see.

Having said that a breeder friend did have a single puppy that evaded the scan at full term then popped out to surprise everyone.  So I am just keeping an eye on things.

I too can see signs but she has had phantoms before so I always knew that any of these signs shouldn't be believed!  Just gutting when you get the confirmation that all your hard work and planning has gone down the pan yet again :(

Sorry you have no puppies :(

Hi my bitch was scanned at 20 days. told she was not pregnant (i thought it was too early to do a scan but the vet said shall we scan her) Im taking her for another scan on friday 8th July she will be 5 weeks pregnant if she is. But this week she looks pregnant and her teats are big, her tummy is big, she was sick 2 weeks ago, she is also eating for England, she is now on 3 meals a day and is clearing her bowl each meal, she would eat more if i would let her.
I hope you get puppies as i know how dissapointed you can get. I felt bad when i got told when she was 20 days pregnant that she wasnt.
Good luck. She also had a discharge but Honey's was cream and she had antibiotics and it soon cleared up.

Well I have tried for over 2 years with my girl.First 2 attempts,scanned,nothing on scan.Went on to have a phantom pregnancy but I knew she wasn't in whelp.Then last year she had a scan,showed 3 puppies ( scaned at 28 days).All the signs but had a gut feeling during the last 2 weeks she wasn't in whelp.Vet didn't know - rolls eyes-but during her last week couldn't and had never felt any movement from the puppies.Treated her as pregnant,but no weight gain or increase in body size.So by her due date I presummed she had reabsorbed.Off to the vets,AB.I ,rested her during her last season and tried again = my last attemt as she is now 4 years old. two good ties 3 days apart.No scans this time - thought what would be would be.But she has progressed completely differently this time.Have felt the pups for almost 2 weeks.So Basically that is my experience of scans.My last 2 litters 18 years ago,scans weren't really the norm in my backwaters LOL. So I have gone from being really disappointed to excited,to 'what have i done ' LOL.
Also because of talking about puppies i have changed my user name as don'y want to breach T&C.

Hi,

Wow you have gone through it aint you? it might be that your girl is not good at pregnancies. :( I dont know im still learning myself. I also forgot to mention that my girl has gained a kg in a week, and her tummy is quite big.

I dont really know what else to say to you, maybe you should give up trying on your girl.

I hope you find a way of having puppies :)

Best Wishes though

The vet had her led down on her side and only scanned on side, my bitch was almost cured round not stretched out. We have decided to arrange a scan with Samantha Wilkinson tomorrow as she says she can give us a DEFFINATE yes or no, so utill tomorrow we still have SOME hope. Sam said that vets can get it wrong it depends how good they are and how often they do it.

I will trust what Sam says, heres hoping she can tell us different, if not we'll try again next time, thats if we can bare the thought of going through it all again and wondering if we will or wont get puppies :-(((

May i ask who samantha wilkinson is?

Let us know wont you if its good or bad news? i will keep fingers crossed for you, if you keep yours crossed on Friday when we go and have a scan on my girl. :)

I hope you get the out come you want. :)

She is an animal scanner been doing it for 20 years and is apparently spot on even with numbers.  i got her number off here :-)) i will let you know what happens, good luck to you friday :-))

Awww i see well i will keep fingers crossed for you. really hope you get the out come you want.

Thanks if your on here i will let you know about Honey.

yes lets see what happens for you friday,  would have thought 20 days is to early although i have read 18-25 days is the best time, i'm in doubt because she still has a cream/clear discharge when see pee's, everyone seems to think that a clear sign that they are..?

gowd its a nightmare lol

thanks homey01...

> would have thought 20 days is to early although i have read 18-25 days is the best time,

That is the best time if the method of pregnancy used is 'Palpation' (feeling for them) but for Ultra sound scanning 28 - 35 days after mating is usual. 

In the USA and some other countries they X-ray at 6weeks after last mating as the spines and skulls of the pups will show up on x-ray.

how accurate would you say vets are at actual diagnosis, not bothered about numbers, if she has one thats fine as it will be treasured by us, i have a list of 7 homes waiting , it will be awful to let them down, really hope sam can say different.

Ha ha ha it is a nightmere, but good fun too.

When Honey was mated she was loosing a brownish discharge, then it went to a cream colour, she had to have some antibiotics as she had an infection, luck had it the tablets that the vet used was ok for a pregnant bitch so i hope it was.

I think you should see a vet, not just for a scan, but to see if she has an infection, and needs antibiotics. you dont want any thing to happen to her because you did not get her to a vet.

I will leave that thought with you, im not on here to judge but if i can help by my experiance then i would like to pass it on. I dont know if you can see my email address on here but if you can pm me tomorrow and let me know how things went!

Well if you do a scan, but do it say when you think they are 5 weeks pregnant, then i would say they should see some thing. Ok there could be some hiding but that could happen to all of us with girls that could be pregnant. How far gone could she be?

will let you know, she has been on antibiotics. if she's deffinatley not tomorrow i'll take her for a swab or something ;-)) 

she could be between 4 and 5 weeks depending when she took, thats if she is lol

Yes, My girl is 5 weeks on friday, so roughly the same time for both girls. :)

If she isnt, i would definatley go to your vets and have some things checked out, maybe bloods they might tell you alot of things, if you have been going 2 years with nothing, and your getting your girl to the stud, and they have a good go at it, and maybe tied, (im not sure if they need to tie to have a pregnancy) you would have to ask advice for that, then there is some thing not right, well in my eyes that is, maybe some one can help you out on that one on here.

Can you remember the dates of when they done it? (sorry dont mean to sound crewed on that question)

You'll be gobsmacked with Sam, none of this daft shaving/lying the dog down, and by the time you've looked at the scanner she'll have told you what's in there LOL.

M.

Oh right you know Sam as well? i must admit, i thought it was a bit silly trying to pin a dog down, and scan them. Alice my vet does it with my bitch standing up.

Lets keep our fingers crossed she comes up as being pregnant. :)

oh god dont think i can sleep tonight lol she was mated on friday 3rd june a few slips and a 10 min tie and again on the sunday 2 slips but no tie as my bitch apparently was having none of it lol....

everyone who knows sam seems to sing her praises.... hopefully i'll be singing on the way home a happy happy song lol or the playing the sad act...

sam is fantastic spot on with numbers and helps with dates even spotted a water pup which means bitch obviously has to have a c-sectioncomes to your home ,no stress on the bitch and shes lovely too !!!!

Hmm - whereabouts is this 'Sam' located.  I'm hoping to be in need of a scanner in a few weeks time.  Feel free to pm if it's not ok to post publicly

Thanks!

That's a phrase I haven't come across before. What is a 'water pup' please?

A water pup is one which has become blown up with fluid and is therefore too big for the dam to pass normally, some will die and be absorbed if early enough in the pregnancy others are either born dead or die shortly afterwards, in humans it is due to a blood incompatibility between Mum and baby.

Info about water puppy syndrome They're also known as 'walrus puppies'.

Hey does any one know if houndgirl81 has had her dog scanned yet? is her dog pregnant or not ? been sitting on the edge of my seat wondering if it is good news or not!!! Please let us know asap please.

Hi Honey01

just got back from scanning with Sue, and she has given us a deffinate NO :-((( so gutted now.  But I trust what she say's and she showed and explained everything to me, not like the vet.

I wish you lots of luck and hope it's good news for you on Friday x x

Oh Houndgirl81 im so so so sorry, i been thinking of you all day, had fingers crossed and toes. What will you do now? I really dont know what to say but sorry.

Thank you for tomorrow with Honey im 99.9% that she is now as she is getting bigger in the tummy. i wont say any more as i dont want to rub your nose in it, if you know what i mean.

Hope you will keep in touch on here or if you want to by email.

Thanks for letting me know at least sue explained every thing to you, which you said your vet never did.

Take care

Mandy x x

So sorry that it wasn't the news you were expecting.I know its not much of a consolation but there is always next time.Remember I have tried 4 times -so there is always hope. Honey01 let us all know the news after the scan tomorrow.Good luck.

Sorry the news isn't better but try again next time.

I am waiting for the fourth and final attempt with one of my girls.

Hi Cornishmals,

That was nice of you to say that, and it can give hope for the next time round for houndgirl 81. Also thanks to Rhodach for her coment too. A lot of people would be laughing, which is very crewl in my eyes.

Yes i go to the vets at 10 to 10 so as soon as i get home i will let you all know. As i said before to houndgirl 81 i dont want to rub her nose in it if my girl is pregnant.

Thanks again for your kind thoughts.

Fingers crossed for me

Mandy x

Hi Rhodach,

Aww fingers crossed for you then, i hope that it works out for you. when will you know? Has she been mated yet? or just waiting for her next season? Its a shame we cant see each others dogs, never mind.

I hope you get the verdick your after!

Mandy x

Waiting for her season to start, using my own stud[he was for her second litter after she had had pups to an outside stud] so I can mate her more frequently over a longer period in the hopes of getting pups.

Took her to stay at her breeders from day 5[fourth attempt now know she ovulates very early] but she was so stressed that she wouldn't allow anyone near her, when I went to get her back she had gone over so were too late to try with me there.

So now we are down to last try as she is 4 yrs old, have been told by 2 breeders that they have had bitches who had similar histories and went on to have 2/3 litters once they got pregnant the first time, all I want is one litter.

Will announce when pups have been confirmed.

Hi

Thanks everyone were are really really gutted, seen lots of friends puppy pictures today and suddenly started to get upset and broody,  but we certainly don't want any sadness to pass onto our bitch so we are going to cheer ourselfs up with a takeaway tonight instead..

Honey01 don't feel bad about it, I'll be really happy for you if it's good news tomorrow, I'm sure it will be and i'll be on here at 10:11am to find out the result too :-) okay maybe about 11am ...

We will just try again next time and see what happens, just when your doing everything to can and for the right reasons it hurts when there are folk out there that dont care two hoots about there dogs or there puppies and breed litters left right and center :-(  so much planning, engergy, effort, time, bloody sweat n tears, plus a small fortune, breeding is so hearbreaking at times...

I get mad too at the ignorant breeders out there who churn out litter after litter with no problems.

Hi Houndgirl81,

Thank you your very kind to take that attitude with me and other people who have thier dogs in pup. I would not blame you if you got upset i know i would. But nice to see you have a possitive attitude to other people.

I go at 10 to 10 then i have to go to the drs to have another blood test then i will be home, so i think i will be home at about 11.15 to 11.30 so i will come on here with the good or the bad news and let you know.

Well that is very true, people do breed just for the money and in my eyes (I dont know if any one else agrees) but you dont make money out of breeding. You have all the stud fee to fork out for, vet care, all the birthing boxes and equipment, then all of the post natle care of the bitch and pups, then all the registrations, so all people who think your in the money dont bother. You also have all the care that you need to give, which if there are complications you have to see a vet again.What really gets at gets me so mad, is people breeding and not having the care for the girl or the puppies, i suppose im on about puppy farming i get so very very mad.

Any way thank you so much for being brave and i hope you get a great result next time.

Mandy x

Hi Rhodach,

Aww that seems to take for ever and a day, waiting for your girl to come into season, i know when Honey was waiting for her season she took a year for her first season then it went to 8 months then 7 month and now this time 6 months. Im glad i did not have to wait another 8 months, Honey had 2 matings one on the 31st May then again on the3rd june she tied on both 20 mins the first time and 12 mins the second.

At least you know that she ovulates very early on, you can now prepare for it this time round. Thats nice of you to let her stay at the breeders it must help keep her stress down.

I thought you could breed up to 6 times? maybe its just my breed that can. Well acording to the KC you can. Dont give up hope, im sure you will have babies soon, i will keep my fingers crossed for you.

Yes yes please do announce when pups have been confirmed i will be very interested to know.

Mandy x

The number of litters allowed is 4 from Jan 2012 but Chase is getting too old to be having her first litter.

My other girl is 5 and had 2 litters hoping for one more sired by my own stud no rush re her age.

I thought you could breed up to 6 times? maybe its just my breed that can.

No Mandy, it's 4 litters for ALL breeds.

Hi JeanSW,

Thank you for putting me on the right track, i could have done some thing that went against all the kennel clubs rules. You see even im learning ha ha ha.

Thanks again

Mandy x

so sorry to hear your girl isnt in whelp all the best for next time xx

good luck with scan mandy xx

Awww bless you white lily. We are on our way now to get the scan done fingers crossed :) :)

Mandy x

Sorry white Lilly i was meant to say :)

Mandy x

Mandy just to clarify.

The Kennel club did have a limit of 6 litters as a maximum for any bitch in line with the legal limit under the breeding and sale of dogs welfare Act.  Also they had to make rules that would cover ALL breeds, but they asked breed clubs to draw up 'Codes of Ethics' and most of these would say fewer litters and stipulate older ages than the over 12 months at mating general rule.

For example my own breed club code of ethics has stated for the last nearly 20 years, maximum of 4 litters and minimum age of two years.

I don't think there is any reputable breeder that would find it acceptable to breed 6 litters from any breed (just maybe from a toy breed that only had single pups each time and they had not managed to get a nice one of the sex needed).

In most breeds that have average litters sizes (say 6) 2 - 4 litters would be considered plenty, after all if you haven't bred something decent for yourself by then why would you be breeding from that bitch?

I imagine in breeds with large litters (10+) most breeders would consider two litters plenty assuming they got the suitable puppy for the next generation.

In light of this the Kennel club has decided that from January 2012 the maximum number of litters they will allow to be registered from any bitch of any breed is four.

Thank you Brainless for putting me right, its nice to know some one will help when needed.

Best wishes

Mandy x

Hello Houndgirl 81 and white lilly,

Good news Honey is pregnant, we got scan pictures and Alice my vet could see at least 3 in her.

Im over the moon with Honey, she is such a good girl to produce the eggs and Rooibos for doing the other lol.

Thank you for all the interest and help i have had from you 2 and every one else.

Just goes to proove there are some lovely people out there.

Mandy x

Well plenty of homework to do now, LOL

Join your breed club, get lots more research done on Mum and Dads lines, read the Book of the bitch over and over etc etc. ;)

Let your waiting list know that a litter is on it's way (you will probably find some have dropped away), advertise the imminent litter and start vetting potential new owners to put on your waiting list. 

I have the book of the bitch i was reading it over and over and over and over again last time, i think the book is one of the best i have read.

Thank you i will be speading the word now, have one for definate,

You have been lovely thank you

Mnady x