Hi, I wanted to ask whether any of you have any information about the average prices of personal protection dogs from this website http://www.a1k9.co.uk/dogs.asp ? I don't want to call them because I'm afraid they will immediately start asking questions etc. and I still haven't made up my mind and I'm not sure if I'm prepared financially.
I would be very grateful for information.

Can I ask why you feel the need for a PPD?

I think your query would be better placed on a forum which specialises in these sort of dogs and similar, such as http://protectionk9.proboards.com/

maybe asking here as part of an advertisement for the site?

I thought it was illegal (I may be wrong) to own a Guard dog without a special license, and conditions (never left loose without a handler).

It's not an advert... I'm just asking about it because they haven't stated the price on the website...

tohme, yes, you can ask, it's ok. Well, I've been through a traumatic event and I don't feel safe anymore, not even in my own house. And going outside is especially difficult for me...

Brainless, I don't think you need a license in UK but I may be wrong.

> I don't feel safe anymore, not even in my own house. And going outside is especially difficult for me

I'm sorry to hear that and I do understand. I think any dog would give you confidence after all most dogs would protect their owners if the need arose without actually having to buy one specifically trained for that purpose. If you want a dog that you can take everywhere with you perhaps one that wasn't trained in personal protection may be better. What about rescuing an adult dog? Apart from the general rescues there are also breed specific ones.

I rescued an elderly dog a couple of years ago and she was the easiest dog I've ever owned. There's something to be said for getting a dog that is already house trained, lead and car trained etc.

I've just had a quick look at my local dogs trust website and here they have 2 german shepherds, 2 ridgebacks and several other dogs that would 'look the part' :-)

It is not illegal to own  a dog that is trained in personal protection, it is not a guard dog, that is entirely different; refer to the Guard Dogs Act 1975.

As for the assertion that most dogs would protect their owner if the need arose, I am afraid that is a fantasy born out of Disney films.  Unless a dog has been specifically trained for that purpose 99% of dogs would be at best confused and at worst run away.

However it must be noted that without maintenance training, it is a moot point whether many dogs sold as PPD would actually be of much use to the average owner.

The cost of these dogs run into several thousand pounds generally speaking.

May be Ash85 you are not able to look at things straight since your terrible experience. Perhaps a companion dog and separate help with your PTSS would be the way to go, talk to your doctor and start looking for a suitable rescue to act as an early warning system only although the fact that you are walking with a fair size dog of confident temperament should help  make you feel safer.

Have you been given any help from victim support ( I am assuming this is associated with a criminal offence) ?

Also if you are still at risk of the occurrence happening again then the police should be providing you with adequate protection and support.

I would suggest getting your confidence built rather than having a barrier ( protection dog ) is the most important thing to work on as you cannot live your life feeling constantly in fear :-)

It must be a horrible situation to be in :-(
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/a-mans-best-friend-is-his-canine-bodyguard-971492.html

Gives an idea on costs in this article.

> allowing Edo to pounce and deliver a frighteningly powerful bite to the right arm that would bring all but the strongest man to the ground. As soon as the bite-suit is off, he is soft as butter again, wagging his tail contentedly and pressing for another tummy rub.

That is exactly what this article warns against - 'protection dogs' that are only trained to attack bite suits. Seems from the article that people get duped into believeg a dog trained to attack bite suites will protect them from a person that isn't.

OP, please be very carefull. You do sound desperate for help and a feelnig of security just in the written word, somebody making money out of preotection dogs may well see you as a meal ticket :(

I agree that you need some help for your fear.

I do wonder where one would stand with the law if a protection dog attacked a person that was not attacking you? I've passed plenty of people acting in a confrontational manner, if I had not been able to understand what they were saying then would have thought I was in danger (drunk people, lads being idoits with each other), I would imagine that a protection dog would not hesitate to attack such a person. Unless protection dogs only work on command, in which case there is little point as you are stuffed if an attaker gets you from behind or without enough warning for you to speak.....

"£770,00 paid out to police dog bite victims......The statistics showed that 2,725 suspects were bitten, along with 196 police staff and 155 other members of the public....Cheshire Police paid £10,000 to a 13-year-old boy bitten on the back, who had a phobia of dogs....Durham Police paid £7,000 to a victim bitten while running past an off-duty police officer out exercising his police dog." from here

POlice dogs with thier trained handlers apprear to get it wrong and the law obviously requirs financial compensation for the victim. If you get a personal protection dog, then it looks like insurance is a must, but I have no idea how much that would cost you, or wheather you would actualy be able to get any cover.

Lots of thinking to do before going ahead with this idea.

I am so sorry you have gone through such an event leaving you feeling like this . As others have said have you spoken to yur doctor and victim support.
If you are thinking about a dog fogetting the pp angle do you want to own a dog ? does you life style now or in your planned future when you feel stronger work with a dog. Are you finances suitable to maintain a dog.?
Are you going to be able to get out daily to exercise your new friend ?
I have a big gsd as a pet , I will admit that I feel sfe with him around never mind what he would do in a crisis hopefully just frighten someone off but people are wary of him just because he is big black and apparently scary looking and also is vocal
Now thats enough for me, I would hate him to show agression of any sort but its people feelings that see him as intimidating. Personally I find it a problem when we are out but will admit that I feel his presence would put most people off from trying anything  I think what I am saying is if you think you would like to own a dog  consider as someone has said some of the breeds that look like they could protect you but are very suitable as family dogs if well bought up. trained protection dogs could bring along alot of potential poblems of their own
Good luck I hope you find a way through this

Looking at this from a slightly different perspective: About 12 years ago I lived in a rough area with a lot of problems and I no longer felt safe. I had Golden Retrievers and Cavaliers and of course they were just laughed at. I decided I needed a dog that LOOKED the business, whether it would DO it or not. Appearances can be so much! I considered a lot of breeds but the people in the area that had dogs like Rottweilers, Dobermanns, GSDs etc and to them, those dogs were nothing to worry about at all. They were used to the breeds. That's when the idea of a Malinois hit me, as I had met a police dog in California who was a Malinois and was very impressed with him. Cutting a long story short I got my Malinois pup and from the day she arrived aged 7 weeks I told people she was in training to become a guard dog (of course back then absolutely nobody knew about the breed, few of the general public do today but back then it was even rarer) and that she would protect me and my family and our house no matter what. I never allowed anyone in our area to stroke the pup as I told everyone I didn't want her to be friendly. (Of course, we also went to normal training classes but the neighbours didn't know that.)

Well it worked. People bought it. We had no more trouble from that day onwards as rumours very quickly spread about this new guard dog to stay away from. I felt perfectly safe to even walk her late at night. The looks and the rumours were everything. And of course the breed is a natural guard so will look very ferocious when people knock at the door etc.

And those CD members who know Ripley will know that she just LOVES people. :)

I'm not suggesting you go out and get a Malinois, they are a lot of hard work and not suitable for everyone at all, but the general idea might be worth considering -getting a breed that looks the business, spread a few rumours, and not tell anyone your dog is a big softie.

I know you want one NOW, but wouldn't it be better to buy a young good temperament dog and train it in working trials?  You learn the protection stuff for the 'patrol dog' stakes and you know exactly what you're doing and what your dog is capable of.  Find a good trainer locally, get advice on a good dog and learn together.  Dogs which are trained to attack people are a liability and a huge responsibility.  Lives (human and your dogs') are at risk and you need to know everything to keep everyone safe.  A sound temperament is the first requirement.

These personal protection dogs are trained to do what their handler tells them to do and, in general, these trainers are pretty skilled.....are you?

If not, forget it, the dog will lose its training very quickly and you will be left with just a big dog with no bite inhibition. :-(

If you need a PPD - you'd need the handler as well.

They do mention they give a three day training course before they will sell a dog to a customer but do wonder how on earth a novice would be trained to a sufficient level of competence to handle and keep a dog like this :-( . It mentions that they will only sell a dog if they feel the person is capable of owning one. I wonder what their acceptance criteria is.

At the end of the day those of us with dogs that are trained to bite would NEVER deploy our dogs unless there was ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER COURSE OF ACTION open to us, because it would put our beloved pets at risk of being put down if they bit or at risk of being injured by the threatening party.

Dogs are also not trained to ATTACK but DEFEND and just as a matter of note, 99.99% of dogs that bite people have never been actually TRAINED to bite! ;)

> 99.99% of dogs that bite people have never been actually TRAINED to bite!

Formally of course. ..... but ask any police force and they will assure you that nearly every little ner do well has a dog which has been 'encouraged to bite' shall we say.

Have pm'd you.

Thank you for all the replies everyone.

LSJ, yes I did get some help but still, it's not that easy to completely just forget about everything. Technically, I'm not at any risk anymore. I know it, though it's often difficult for me to actually believe it. I mean, I know it's a bit illogical but sometimes I just think "If it happened once, why wouldn't it happen again?"

mastifflover, don't worry I will be careful if I make a decision to buy this dog. I will do some more research, try to find trustful companies etc.

furriefriends, fear is not the only reason why I want to buy a dog. It's the reason why I want to buy a personal protection dog but I thought about owning a dog (not a trained one) for a longer time now (before the event). I've had a german shepherd dog for many years but she died two years ago... After that, I wasn't sure if I want another dog ever again because their lives are so short, much too short and it was very painful for me to see her suffer before she was put to sleep to end it (and this left me feel extremely guilty too). But after a certain amount of time, I got over it  a little bit.. and started to miss the companion of a dog more and more... Even the barking. House always seems so empty without a dog.
Then the event happened... And after some time I heard about personal protection dogs. So I thought that if I want to own a dog anyway, why not consider buying this dog and feel more safe? I think it would really make me feel better, to be sure that my dog will always try to protect me.
To answer your questions - yes, my finances are suitable to maintain a dog and I'd have enough time to care for him properly.

Sorry if any of you asked me something and I forgot to reply, there are just many posts here and I might have missed it.

> As for the assertion that most dogs would protect their owner if the need arose, I am afraid that is a fantasy born out of Disney films.  Unless a dog has been specifically trained for that purpose 99% of dogs would be at best confused and at worst run away.

I don't know Tohme, there seem to be plenty of cases if you google 'dog bites attacker' where pet dogs have bitten people attacking their owners. (Disclaimer, please don't click on the 4th link down!!!!)

LOL you just ensured everyone looked at that one.

Noooo... you didn't did you? Let that be a lesson to any would be attackers eh :-)

Oh my dear god. I looked and wished i hadnt!!!!!

> (Disclaimer, please don't click on the 4th link down!!!!)

Ha!  Goooooood dog!!

OP - I agree with a lot of what's been written here - personal protection dogs need experienced, trained handlers, not the general public.  And they are trained to respond on cue - if you were attcked, in the heat of the moment you might forget the cue or be so surprised you don't say it.  The dog might attack anyway - but it might not, for the reasons already given (trained to on cue, trained only on bite sleeves etc).

Personally I think you would be better off getting a pet dog of a guarding, loyal breed and socialising the backside off it - the best protection dogs are the best socialised ones, as they are better at distinguishing between friend and foe.  I suspect you would also find it considerably easier to insure such a dog and would be less at risk of legal problems (as illustrated by whomever posted the stats on police compensation to the public for dog bites).

Something like another GSD or a dobermann would be a good bet - fabulous, friendly dogs but if you treat them with respect they are fiercely loyal and protective.  I have 3 dobes - not one of them would consider biting a human ordinarily and none are even remotely protection trained, but if I was threatened they would protect me (and each other).  I feel totally safe with them around (and incidentally, all of my crossbreeds are the same!).  You don't need to spend thousands to have a safe, dependable friend.

You might also find that getting a pet dog is easier for you to cope with day to day - I suspect protection and guard dogs are going to be very high drive dogs, requiring a LOT of input from the owner/handler.  You could get the same safety from a pet dog without the huge drive.

Do you know anybody that has a large or imposing looking dog that you could take for a walk? You may be suprised how secure you feel walking a pet dog.

Agree Nikita, mistakes can happen all to often when personal protection dogs are owned by the general public.  I know of an instance someone had a dog trained for personal protection...for years all was well until one day the owner used a couple words which were the command for the dog to attack....he lept the fence and attacked the next door neighbour who was just chatting to the owner of the dog.

I think personally the suggestion of getting a breed you are comfortable with and training the dog in working trials and if you are able enough to work your way up to PD level.  This way you will build such a strong bond with your dog and also have one that you have trained to a very high standard.

There is a Dogue de Bordeaux male looking for a man-dog relationship. He would look the part and be a loyal companion, i have no fear when i walk mine. He would be a great confidence builder for you too.

Anybody can use the command I use for my dog to bite, he would not obey!

I certainly do NOT think my dog is LASSIE and distinguish between friend or foe!  It is beyond the wit of most PEOPLE to do this!

Its MY job to risk assess a situation, not my dog's!

Real dogs in real life I am afraid do not reflect Disney films! ;)

> It is beyond the wit of most PEOPLE to do this!

Very much so but we are talking about dogs - let's face it, dogs tend to be a damn sight better at reading body language than we are; they can also identify scents that we can't and pick up on all manner of sensory input that passes us by.

I never said your dogs was Lassie - I'd be a fool to think any dog is.  But dogs can pick up on threatening behaviour that we can so easily miss.

A lot of dogs may miss these things, yes - but a lot of dogs don't, they can and will protect their owner from a genuine threat as mine would.  I've seen the change in their demeanour when a threat is spotted - we walked a woman home once who was being followed, the two I had then picked up on him straight away and he left sharpish.  I've seen similar late at night walking them by myself.

I've also heard many, many tales of dogs protecting their owners.

I know one owner in the states who was upstairs a couple of years ago; she heard growling, went downstairs and found her two dobes had cornered and intruder but, being well trained and socialised (NOT protection trained, just general obedience), they had him cornered and wouldn't let him leave (until the owner called them, at which point they walked backwards to her, never looking away from him) but never touched him.  These are just pet dogs.

Likewise another dobe, this one in the UK, taken for a run in the woods; he was out of sight when someone attacked his owner from behind not knowing he was there - came straight back, bit the man to the bone in the thigh and the man was tracked down in hospital and arrested.

I know my examples are dobe-biased but that's because I belong to several dobe forums/groups!  But I can also mention my best friend's lab - soft as butter - who deliberately frightened off someone who was running straight at my friend in a would-be attack.

Dogs aren't Disney no, god forbid - but give some of them some credit ;-)

> Anybody can use the command I use for my dog to bite, he would not obey!

How would that translate to the OP buying a pre-trained protection dog? If the dog is trained to follow a person not a command, then what would be the point of buying one?

> Dogs aren't Disney no, god forbid - but give some of them some credit

When I was about 13, me, sis and friends were playing in the fields with our freinds. As was usual back then, we had our 2 dogs (mongrels) with us. A horrid bunch of kids came after us, chucking stones and being generally nasty, our dogs jumped up at the ring-leader, stood on thier back legs and barked in his face untill he backed off. (We'd be in trouble for that today!!)
They were friendly dogs that were happy to greet and play with anybody, but were also quick to defend us - isn't that part of the basis for the domestication of dog is the first place- thier natural instinct to protect 'thier own'?

Because they do some training with the dog and the trainer so the commands are transferred.
The other thing is that a lot is contextual
I

How many people are killed whilst walking their dogs?

A lot more than are saved by them...................

> How many people are killed whilst walking their dogs? A lot more than are saved by them...................

This is quite true, and did have a bearing on what dog I wound up with. At the time I was looking, there were two separate unrelated incidents of attacks on lone females walking dogs in my area (one very serious), in both cases the dogs (one BC, one GSD) ran off in fear.

It made me reconsider not only the breed I would choose, but how I would approach training. Back when I was a teenager, I taught the dog we had then (BC/Lab/Lurcher blend) to bark on command, particularly with a very subtle signal. I couldn't imagine owning a dog which hadn't been taught something like that. The one I have now is so perceptive that he doesn't always need the secret code. I also couldn't imagine owning a dog which would run off in fright if its owner was in real danger... Doesn't have to be Lassie, in most cases a lot of noise is enough!

> How many people are killed whilst walking their dogs?
>
> A lot more than are saved by them...................

I don't know how many people are killed while walking thier dog or how many are saved by thier dog, what are the figures?

There is no way of knowing how many people decide not to attack a person because they are walking a dog, so the person doesn't even know they were a potential target.

In reply to the OP question, I have met a dog supplied by A1K9. The family couldn't speak highly enough about the dog they had been matched to, or the service they had received. The dog in question was a delightful character, a GSD of working type, and he happily took part in the fun classes at our Companion Show handled by the daughter. At no time did he give any cause for concern and he seemed as besotted with his family as they were with him.

> There is no way of knowing how many people decide not to attack a person because they are walking a dog, so the person doesn't even know they were a potential target.

Very good point.  Not in quite the same area, but the example I gave of walking the woman home was like that - it's just that she was aware she was being followed and made a point of cutting straight across an empty playing field to get to me and ask for help.  She'd been followed for about 10 minutes, had tried various short cuts etc to see if he was following her and he was (and was speeding up) - as soon as she started walking with me he disappeared.  I saw her again some months later and he'd never reappeared, thank goodness.

Very good point. It is impossible to calculate the deterant effect of walking a big dog.

I certainly feel very safe walking several medium size Spitz types.  Most of my walks are after 9pm at night in the summer.