Hi, I hope one of you could give me some advice. I have a male mini schnauzer 9yrs, female mini schauzer 7yrs and a female akita 7months (all intact). Famale mini always wore the trousers until we got the akita, akita now dominates her, keeps her very much in check and makes her play with her for the majotity of the time. A couple of weeks ago (feeding time) akita had her food in kitchen and I stupidly tried to get mini to walk through kitchen to got outside for hers. Akita attached mini, I tried to pull them apart, the mini bit me hard on hand, then after a bit of grunting with head over mini left her be will a couple of superficial punctures. A few days after both bitches came into season. All seemed pretty much normal until last Thursday when akita attacked mini again, I'm not sure what provoked it this time, but I thought she was going to kill her, she left mini for a couple of seconds then attacked again. Mini has needed surgery to the neck, and is now recovering at my mums (temporary). The vet has said by getting both bitches spayed should eleminate the aggression - but I'm so scared for mini's safety now though. Akita doesn't display any dominance over male mini, even lets him eat out of her dish. I'm thinking of keeping mini in a different room when she comes home and get a mussle for akita for when we introduce them (and get them both spayed). I need advice from others with experience of this kind of behaviour though - PLEASE! Thanks, Elaine.

I am surprised that you do not seem to realise the traits of the breeds you have.

Akita's are an extremely dog dominant breed and experienced owners and the breed club will advise that you never leave one unsupervised with another dog, as one day you will come home to a blood bath and a dead dog. 

They are usually totally intolerant with their own sex.  Your other breed are not a placid submissive breed either so this was almost bound to happen, and is right on cue with adolescence.

With proper training the Akita will learn to ignore other dogs, but should never be allowed off lead as they will not tolerate any confrontational behaviour from another dog, and with their size and power will inevitably cause injury or death in skirmish/fight.

You need to segregate your Akita from the other bitch permanently (not worth the risk with the disparity in size).   Fighting bitches when they take to fighting will most often be with deadly intent, even in breeds that normally are sociable and tolerant of their own sex. 

With the male dog she can be allowed supervised if they get on, but never left alone,.

gosh thats such a shame really dont know what to suggest other than the obvious .Unfortunately as said many times before when bitches take a dislike to each other its often for life ...Could be hormonal but I sometimes think vets suggest castration and spaying to end all ills ...The other problem is having two breeds of a huge size and strength difference ...Sorry cant suggest anything more concrete but hope alls well with your mini sounds like they both competing to be alpha female or at least the akita is if your not showing or going to breed I would spay anyway but in a large breed such as the akita i would think she would have to be older before spaying but i dont know the breed at all so get advice ..Good luck anyway and keep us informed

Im sorry to be blunt ( you asked for an urgent reply) but this is an insoluble problem, in that you wont be able to fix it by spaying or training.

When bitches fight in this type of scenario its usually for ever Im afraid. Add into the mix the factor of the instigator being an Akita - a large powerful fighting dog then you have a blood bath waiting to happen.

Too many people buy dogs with little thought of their origins, their traits and their mindset as a breed.

This is IMO a situation which cannot be 'managed' it must be changed with one or other being rehomed.

This will escalate...do not leave them alone ever again.

Totally agree with Brainless....I own a 6 year old Akita bitch.

The Akita bitch should never be left unsupervised around either dog, and especially not when it is feeding time.  The majority of experienced Akita owners ALWAYS feed their Akita's separately.  At only 15 weeks my Akita bitch tried to pin our very large male GSD against the wall over her dinner - obviously no damage and I think the boy laughed at her in his own way....after that she has been fed on her own at every mealtime.

I have always owned large guarding breeds but have to say the Akita is like no other I have owned, and I am sorry to say if at 7 months your bitch is attacking your mini I do not think it will get a lot better.  Up until 18 months my bitch would play with all the dogs - bitches and dogs, after that she only tolerated the bitches.  My Akita can play and mix with my male Rottie and they have a whale of a time together and she lives happily but seperated from my Rottie bitch. 

You can teach your Akita to be tolerant of other dogs but I very much doubt they will go back to being 'friends' again.  We have always had a multidog household of up to 7 dogs and have had bitches fall out - all the other breeds I can get the bitches back together and settled...the Akita, I can only get her to tolerate them.

Spaying can help calm them because they won't then have the ups and downs of their hormones but I do not think it will solve the problem.  

Also Akita's were bred to hunt and guard, not fight.

Would suggest the opposite and say spay the smaller bitch as it is likely the Akita will remain dog aggressive and bitches can become even more so on being neutered. But I do not hold out much hope it will help and you will need to keep the bitches separate now for ever, if it were males there is a strong chance you could deal with it but not with bitches who have killing the rival in mind the males just want a bit more space or the nearest bitch and forget the disagreement in a very short time.

Just another note to add, my Akita has had spats with my male Rottie however they can be seperated fairly easily and within a couple of hours after calming down they will return to playing happily (they have never caused any damage to each other)...when the disagreement is with a bitch they just never seem to forget!

I'm in agreement with Brainless, you have to look at breed traits, there are certain breeds I would not bring into a multi dog household for fear of them upholding that dominance, it won't always happen even in dominant breeds, but with some breeds if there are differences you simply can not fix it.

My nephew has a dog dominant Akita he's absolutely stunning but out of the 20 dogs who visit my home at Christmas of all types of breeds shapes and sizes, neutered and un-neutered he is the only dog that can not join us.

Seasons do affect bitches and can make a difference to their behaviour, but I have to agree you may well not sort this out due to the breeds. I would keep them separate or you could end up with a dead Schnauzer.

Thanks to all of you who have replied so far, I am taking all your advice on board and learning all the time unfortunately by my mistakes in this instance. 
I will the first to admit we were stupid getting the akita before thoroughly researching the breed, yes she was an impulse buy. But we love her to bits and are now responsible for her, so all my research into the breed has happened since getting her.
She's got on great with all other dogs she's met whether at obediance class or out and about and so I was probably lured into a false confidence in her because of this. From reading your replies it looks like I am going to have to reorganise their living arrangements, so that the schnauzers have the front of the house and the akita the back and precausions inbetween so they don't meet.
As I say I am learning all the time and want to do the best I can for all three dogs so all your advice is appreciated.
Thanks again, Elaine.

Its lovely to see someone dedicated to their dogs.  The Akita is a fantastic breed but they do have their querks!  My dogs main room is the conservatory and the Rotts have one side the Akita the other, they are seperated by a pen which works with mine perfectly because my Akita has no intention of getting to the Rottie bitch - she just basically doesn't want her in her face.  The Rottie bitch is very submissive naturally which also causes less friction between the girls.  My dogs live perfectly happily like this and if for any reason the Akita did get near the other girl a quick 'stand wait' command works perfectly until I go and collect her....so work hard with your obedience skills to get the solid 'wait' command in.

personally I think it is refreshing to hear someone admit they made a mistake .......Everybody and I mean everybody has at sometime made a mistake re their dogs to a more or lesser degree ....unfortunately this is a major issue and I wish you good luck in whatever you do in regard to this horrible situation

In all my years of keeping dogs I've never been able to get bitches who have fought back together again to live in harmony. It would either mean keeping them seperate (and relying on everyone to remember to shut doors etc) keep them in crates or rehoming them. I've tried the former and it doesn't make for a happy household plus lots of stress for the dogs, and more often than not I had to resort to the latter, rehoming. Like some people, some dogs just don't get on!Heartbreaking to do but much better for all concerned.

My girls never had a fight until the youngest one spayed. The other bitch having had a litter ( i also have 3 males  )had already been spayed for a year. So it is not always the answer.

No advice for the O/P just lots of well wishes that everything works out with the seperation an training. Just wanted to say some cracking advice given, especially by Staff! And well done O/P for realising your mistake and taking the advice offered! Great job all round people! :) xxx

Spaying won't make a difference.  My 2 akita girls had a stupid spat over a blowing leaf (or something so stupid) and they wouldn't stop fighting.  I got them both spayed hoping it would calm things down again but it made no difference.  I got the girls to a stage where they would ignore each other when I was there but I could never leave them alone again.  Your male would be OK with her as they don't tend to fight with males and if they do, it's only a squabblenot full-on fight(normally).

Toolz, just wanted to add that I am horrified by your 'fighting dogs' remark.  Do you work for the Sun newspaper??

Huge difference between dogs that fight and dogs bred for fighting, or a fighting breed, whcih of course Akita's are not they were hunting guarding breed.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who picked up on the fighting breed.  They were used for hunting and Royal families used them to guard their children, they were at no point used to fight.

Cracar - I know what you mean about stupid things they have spats over...My Akita and Staffie fell out over the water coming out of the hose pipe...before this day they played together perfectly.  And like you say a bitch normally has what I call spats or squabbles with the boys but no harm done and they go back to playing together nicely the same day.

> They were used for hunting and Royal families used them to guard their children, they were at no point used to fight.

Most histories I've read  talks of thier use in dog fighting (it's a breed I was thinking of getting).

"...Collectively they were known as the 'Regional Dog'. Of these regional dogs, those living in towns and used for fighting were known as 'Kuwae-Inu' or 'Kuriya-Inu' in the local dialect, while others that were used for hunting in the countryside and mountains were known as 'Matagi-Inu. The dogs themselves were more or less alike. They were all Japanese dogs, which had been bred in these areas since ancient times. These were the ancestors of today's Akita..........One must assume this dog to be the one bred before recorded history" From here.

It seems to depend on the author of Akita history wheather they will include, dismiss or deny fighting roots.

Its because they were sometimes crossed with the Tosa which infiltrated many lines and is commonly believed to be the reason why they are 'kean' to fight.

They are described as 'intolerant of other dogs'.

Ive handled several Akitas and like them but I have witnessed them fight...they dont take prisoners.

> Its because they were sometimes crossed with the Tosa which infiltrated many lines and is commonly believed to be the reason why they are 'kean' to fight.

That was more recent that the origin of the breed though wasn't it? ie they were used for dog fighting prior to the Tosa influence? Or was the Tosa influence the more defined 'start' of the breed as it is today (if that makes sense??).

Anyway, the lack of tollerence to other dogs was the thing that put me off them (especially being as I had a dog allready), allthough there seem to be people that keep them with other dogs, I'd have thought one would need experience with the breed before even attempting that.
They look quite hard to 'read', seemingly looking alert all the time.

>Ive handled several Akitas and like them but I have witnessed them fight...they dont take prisoners.

Very powerfull and agile looking dogs, I bet it's a disconcerting seeing them scrap :(

My neighbour has a (very handsome :) ) akita, she can't let him near other dogs.

This is a mistake many people make, even I myself once believed it until I researched a lot more and found the Tosa was not mixed in with the Akita. 

I haven't read through all the site as it comes up straight away as the Japanese Akita Inu - this is a seperate breed from the Akita.  They are different in both appearance and character.

Again I will reiterate - they are not a fighting breed, they were bred to hunt.  Look into the history of how hunters used them against bears....this is why they possess the breed characteristics many like or dislike.

> Very powerfull and agile looking dogs, I bet it's a disconcerting seeing them scrap :-(

Certainly is.  The first fight I ever broke up was between a huge akita bitch and a very soppy GSD dog - the bitch was redirecting as she couldn't reach the dogs on the other side of th fence (this was in kennels).  Took a fair bit to split them, but I was by myself!

They were fine afterwards though, we made sure to get all the other dogs out and in before those two went out after that and had no more problems.  Best of friends.

Good post, Staff!
The akita was not crossed with the tosa at any stage and in fact, the japanese kept the lines pure and clean for hundreds of years.  It was only after 'gifting' dogs to American soldiers, that the breed went quickly downhill.
I, at one point, had 4 males(3 entire), and 4 females all ruled by my old akita boy and my cocker bitch.  A tight ship but it worked well.  It only goes wrong when the humans are not the 'leader' or fighting starts.  They are not as bad as you would think when they get going as it is usually all coat and noise but the worst fight I've ever seen involved a staffie and english bull.  I was in shock for about a week after that and neither of the dogs were mine!!

> The akita was not crossed with the tosa at any stage

Why do many articles say they were?

During the Taisho Period (1912-1926), a Tosa fighting dog team toured Akita and soundly defeated the local Akita dogs. In an effort to regain superiority, some of the Akita dog fans took this opportunity to outcross their Akita dogs to the Tosa fighting dogs. This resulted in significant physical changes to the structure and conformation of the original Akita dog. These dogs came to be known as the "Shin-Akita (New Akita)." (from here)

I can't understand why people would make up something like that and pass it of as factual history if there were no truth in it

I find it hard to beleive the Tosa and the Akita Inu were mixed at any time, purely because of how they look, the Tosa is much more mastif looking than the Akita Inu. It has a short coat, floped ears and a turned down tail... VERY different looking dog to the Akita Inu with its double coat erect ears and very curled tail.
While dog fighting in the pit sense we think of must have happend the world over with many different breeds, making this passage tecnically historically accurate, it was not the purpose of either the Akita Inu or the Tosa... the Tosa was bred to fight but not in the pit fight to the death sense. Infact that kind of fighting was serverly looked down on by the true breeders who bred the dog to wrestle and pin the oponant much more like a sumo wrestler.

The dog most people in the UK know as Akita and the Akita Inu are quite different and are now separate breeds.

The one is as bred and developed by the Americans (and may have mastiff input, and certainly looks like it may) and the other is the dog the Japanese accept, the Akita Inu, far less common in the UK.

The former dows weem far more dominant than the latter, but that is only from dogs I have met.

Very interesting information here about the history of the breed ( when it was Akita Inu which, I believe, just means Akita dog) before the Americans got their hands on the breed and created the show dog....but still its origins.

A very interesting comment from this breed club site "History brings us to the restoration of The Japanese Akita-Inu, although the original breed survived and continued to perform its intended task; it is clear that this breed had been superseded in the show ring by the larger, heavier fighting Akita."

> I find it hard to beleive the Tosa and the Akita Inu were mixed at any time

The link I posted contains "Excerpts of The Breed History are reproduced with the very kind permission of JAPAN KENNEL CLUB."

Best of luck to the OP. Have to say if it were me I'd be thinking along the rehoming route, personally I couldn't cope with the fear of a fatal fight, but whatever you decide to do, I really hope it works out for you x.

My cousin got an Akita, not KC registered as he didn't want to pay the money for one. When he went to look at the litter he met Mum and Dad, seperated as they would kill each other otherwise. 'Dad' was showing aggression towards him! And yet, he still paid out several hundred pounds for her. I warned him, and warned him again, until it turned into a row, I could see the direction it was going to go in, and he wouldn't listen. She's aggressive towards other dogs, mainly other bitches but dogs too, growls and snarls at the sight of a child, even in the distance, and has attacked their cats and his sister-in-laws cats several times. Luckily she's fat and slow and the cats managed to get away. Then he announced he was going to mate her with his s-i-l's Husky to calm her down! He and his wife have since split up, and although that's sad, I was secretly relieved as it put an end to the mating plans. And the dog has gone with his ex-wife. Thankfully!