I have a 4 week old pup who went lame on his back leg on Tuesday we took him to the vets and they (without x ray) diagnosed a possible greenstick fracture possibly due to rough play with litter mates. We were told to seperate him from litter mates and mother as they are all weaned now to prevent any further damage. On Wednesday he went lame on other back leg and one of his front legs too, we rushed him back to vets and they did a full assesment and phoned a neuroligist who believes he has a fibrocartilaginous embolism which I hae been told is bascially a blood clot or cartlidge splinter in the spine his must have been fairly high in his neck to affect front leg aswel. Brough him home lay him down he howls when he wants food, water or toilet bless him. I have been back to the vet today (Thursday) as he has regained almost full use of his front leg and partial use of one of his back legs. Now I've been advised to sit and hope as there is nothing they can do we just have to hope it passes and he regains full use of everything but as he has already regained some functions and no sign of others yet he is not out of the woods and it could go either way yet but we just need to give him time vet reckons days internet reckons weeks even months. He is such a dear little one who now needs help to stand to toilet etc. which I don't mind doing at all but how long do you keep him going for? Am I doing the right thing? Has anyone been through this or similar? If so how did it turn out?

Sorry you have a poorley pup. I think you need to have a very in-depth chat with your vet to see what the possiblity of a long and happy life would be for this pup if you get him through this.
I don't wish to sound callous but if the prognosis for a good life is not good then the answers to you question will be different than if the chances were for him to make a full recovery.
Aileen

I have had a chat with the vet about his prognosis and the best she can say is that about 80% of dogs make a recovery and about 50% of them will make a full recovery and it is not something that is recurrent. His age is on his side apparently so I'm just kind of sitting and hoping. I think if he makes a good enough recovery to have a good quality of life then I'm happy with that but not sure how long to wait to make a decision because he is obviously getting a bit fed up as he can hear his litter mates playing and although he cannot use one of his back legs at all and only 50%ish in the other he has no pain at all (which is one positive) but I don't want to drag it on longer than I perhaps should for him but at the same time I don't want to make a drastic decision when he stands a chance of recovery (sorry I'm tearing myself apart). Vet wants me to ring her tomorrow with an update but even she doesn't know too much as the neuro said it is so rare in such a young dog that it's sort of see as we go.

if this is a boxer pup it sounds very like PA i hope its not as you would need to keep an eye on the other pups for symtoms as well.

Sorry but was is PA?

the proper name is progessive axonopathy unfortunatly its a rare terminal inheritable disease in boxers thats carried by both parents.
as far as i know it hasnt been recorded for quite a few years but that dosn't mean it's not still around in some lines i really hope this isnt your pups problem but if it is you would need to inform the boxer breed council

Thanks Jogold I have just had a quick google into it and the one thing that seems to be a positive for us is that his front leg and one back leg have come back now although the back one isn't at full stregnth yet. I will mention it to my vet and get her to look into it too. Thanks again for the heads up.

your welcome fingers crossed its not that and its just an injury possibly fell and hurt his neck somehow.

I really really hope so, this is our first litter and I am trying so hard to get everything right and yet it all seems to be going against us. I have emailed my vet with your suggestion and will ring her in the morning. Thanks again for the heads up though.

PA has not been seen in the UK for years.  The Boxer Breed Council website states quite clearly that it is no longer a problem (see here - http://www.boxerbreedcouncil.co.uk/thepast1.htm).  It might have been sensible to check up the facts before scaring a newcomer, who is trying to do her best, half to death :-) 

>I have a 4 week old pup
>We were told to seperate him from litter mates and mother as they are all weaned now

All weaned at only 4 weeks old? :-(

yes. why is that a problem?

Most people keep the pups with the mum till they're ready to leave, and they still have a comfort suck even then. At four weeks they still need several feeds a day from mum as well as the solids you give them.

oh right well on vets advice they have been off mum since they were 3 weeks and 5 days, although the size of them is astounding so I don't think it's doing them any harm.

i was not trying to scare anyone and as i said it is possibly still in some lines just because it hasnt been recorded for awhile dosnt mean its gone

>oh right well on vets advice they have been off mum since they were 3 weeks and 5 days

What does your vet breed?

I assume the pups are in with another adult dog to teach them canine manners, seeing as mum isn't allowed to?

I'm not sure but I know she deals with mastitis (in 4 teats) which ruptures out the side of 2 after 24 days of antibiotics if that helps

and yes Mum's sister lives here also so they do see Mum (with a t shirt on) and Aunt all day.

I have a 4 week old pup

We were told to seperate him from litter mates and mother as they are all weaned now

All weaned at only 4 weeks old?

My pups (same breed) are always onto 6 meals a day by the time they are 4 - 4 1/2 weeks old.  Don't start weaning until they are at least 3 weeks old and it usually takes five days max to get them onto solids (no complete food, just the old fashioned stuff like rice/semolina pudding, goats milk, scrambled eggs, raw mince meat etc).  During this period, mum has access to her babies whenever she wants but by the time they are 4 1/2 weeks there is no way she will sleep or stay with them for long periods of time.  They jiggle the milk bar whenever she sees them and continue to do so for as long as she will allow.  However, as far as mum is concerned, it's over to me by the time they are 4 - 4 1/2 weeks old.  They learn their manners from mum and the rest of my gang who they are allowed to mix with regularly. 

>vets advice they have been off mum since they were 3 weeks and 5 days

I can't believe that!   

I would have been putting up very strong arguments if my vet had even suggested that. 

If you 'can't believe that' would you like my vets phone no.?

I am always amazed at this forum as whenever I have asked for advice (for the well being of my animals) I am always picked up on things which have no bearing on the question I am asking. Silly me I thought that people were here to help each other along.

If I wanted advice on weaning I would have asked you all but I asked about the welfare of a poorly pup.

If you would all care to read this post and then read the replies I can honestly say that all most of you want to do is criticize and aren't actually here to help at all. Well for all the self righteous know alls out there thanks for nothing. I have found a few people who are genuinely here to give advice and not pick fault continually.

I really hope that all that knowledge does you good and you don't have to post on any of these boards because I'm not sure any of you could take the muck that will be flung at you.

Well all I can say is thanks to all those who have tried to actually help me! and to those who haven't go spit your poison at someone else.

Unfortunately, I think people wrote their replies prior to seeing your post with regards to severe mastitis in your bitch, in which case it is quite right that the pups would need to be weaned early, in this case your vet made the correct call, unfortunately vets often don't get things right with regards to breeding they can say and suggest the funniest of things. Personally I would still top up morning and evening with pasturised goats milk with egg yolk in a bowl for them if your not already doing so with puppy milk.

I hope that the pup recovers well, it's a real dilemma particularly when a diagnoses is not imminent, not knowing what to do for the best is very upsetting. Let's hope for continued progress and let us know how things go. :-)

If it did turn out to be PA (hopefully very unlikely) let us know.

They have been on lactol three times a day since weaning from Mum on vets advice again.

My point was that noone bothered to stop and ask why I may have weaned them they were just hapy to jump down my throat and shoot me down in flames.

Thanks for the nice post, it makes a change tonight and I'll be sure to let you know how he gets on.

they were just hapy to jump down my throat and shoot me down in flames.

I guess it can read like that, when we write it often doesn't come across in the same tone as if we were to speak and it often happens when the full picture isn't there, everyone has your pups welfare in mind. :-)  I'm glad that your vet also saw to prescribe lactol for them, not forgetting to wish the dam also a full recovery, it's been a tough time for you and also the dam, it's great that you have another bitch there for support to also help the pups socialise and learn their etiquette, at least that is a blessing.......

Unfortunately, I think people wrote their replies prior to seeing your post with regards to severe mastitis in your bitch, in which case it is quite right that the pups would need to be weaned early,

One of my bitches had mastitis with abscesses and my vet's advice was to still let the pups be with her. We used Intrasite gel in the wound from the abscesses (it was big enough to have fitted a golfball inside, I even took photos of it to remind me how bad it was), it looked awful when the pups were tugging on the teat that basically was hanging just from a bit of skin, but it did no harm, the bitch healed well and the pups never needed to stop feeding from her.

I have a bitch with 7 ½ week old pups at the moment, she feeds them after every solid meal they have plus a few times in between -all on her own terms. When she doesn't want to be near them she jumps onto the furniture and they can't get up there yet.

>I guess it can read like that, when we write it often doesn't come across in the same tone as if we were to speak and it often happens when the full picture isn't there, everyone has your pups welfare in mind.

Exactly - it read as though the pups had been taken away from mum simply to wean them early and get them sold and away quickly (the way some people do :-( ), and were being kept together without any adult canine input. Now that we have more information it's much less upsetting. :-)

I don't envy you - six meals a day plus milk meals afterwards is very time-consuming. Good luck!

people are quick to judge let something like this happen to them and its a another story i had a puppy years ogo that sounds the same he got behind the door and the wind blew it and hit him  he was down for days and i put him on noni juice and he made a full recovery but unsteady for a long time he did eat well right the way through

> put him on noni juice

What is noni juice please? It's not something I've heard of.

oh I am so glad someone has similar as I was beginning to worry myself sick. What is noni juice sorry I've neer heard of it. Thanks

oh langridge how long did it take for your pup to regain use of his legs? did they all go at the same time? and did they all come back at the same time? his left rear leg went first and then the right back and left front the next day but the left front has come back now and he has partial use of the right hinde again. The neurologist seems to think that it could have been rough play with litter mates (typical of boxers) and a pure coincidence that he happened to be in a strange position at the same time.
Thanks again for a positive post :@)

http://www.nonijuicehealthbenefit.info/

Not so sure what benefits it can have on dogs personally, also a little worried that it comes in grape flavour, as we know grapes cause renal failure in dogs.

I have just spoken to my vet who has phoned a different neuro for a second opinion and he is in agreement with the first. He has also stated that pa comes on slowly (and this did not) and there is never an improvement (and we have had a couple of small improvements) so this little one does not have the classic signs of pa so he has said to rule that out completely.
I have been told to expect about 2 - 3 weeks for even the start of the recovery but that it should come.

Very good news on both points. :-) Fingers crossed for that full recovery.

noni juice is fine for dogs ive used it on mine he went down over several days and was right of his legs very little deep pain response and stayed down for quite a few weeks i used to roll him in different positions and prop him up with a tri pillow to support him always had him on vet bed he did not seem in pain i used to massage his legs andstretch them out so not to get mucsle waste he started to move a little at a time when he started to stand he often fell if he went to fast he fell even now he sumtimes staggers but he has a normal active life and is a lovely boy  but do try the noni juice when i was told about it i was skeptical best of  luck jenny
k

you can get noi juice at  holland and barret mine came from usa  all i can say after being on it for11 days he moved on his own  its nothing do do with grapes lets be positive here

thats great