I am working this pm 2.30 till 10 and OH usually gives the girlies thier second walk when he gets in but there is heavy rain forecast for later so I thought I wouold take them out earlier...Wish I hadn't bothered. My three are so good and easy going with other dogs but as we were out of our time slot we met lots of different dogs today.
1) 4 Tibetan Mastifs of various ages, all of lead, no control from the owner and one barking at mine and one looking very shifty. Ok so we got past them, with my pup on lead and the other 2 walking "close" as we do.
2) A woman with 4 bullmastifs, 2 boxers and a ? cross bully/dane all off lead I was about to leash pup as she will rush in to play and not think of the consequenses..but she shouted they were ok so I left pup off lead and the older 2 never take any notice of other dogs anyway. Next thing her lot then rushed up and the cross laid into the pup...give Vino her due she had stayed by my side as was a little in awe of so many big dogs all together. No damage just noise but I do not need it with a youngster. Leashed them up and passed them without so much as a sorry from her.
3) Just getting to the car park, all three on lead when a man with a Westie came in the gate...westie rushed the girls barking and snapping and the man laughed at it, saying "They are a big bigger than you Ha Ha"
I lost it at that point and the scorpio sting was unleashed (keep it in check usually as it's nasty !!)....he got both barrels...then as is usuall he said "well he never normally does that he must be frightened" OK but I had mine on leads and under control and they never even looked at the westie...Why is it so funny for a little dog, I told him if one of mine did it to his he would be up in arms...so all in all a pretty hopeless walk.
Grr it makes me so cross, My girls are the least offensive you could wish to meet. More than once they have been blamed for other agressive dogs just because they are  "intimidating" by their size... even when on leads and sitting quietly waiting for others to pass...
Aileen

Been there too. My lot are never off lead now, I have one reactive boy, who is always muzzled as well (for his and everyone else's safety). I've lost count of the number of times we've tried to enter the park to be faced with an off lead dog running out of it, (access is via narrow alleyway). Off lead dog goes nuts to be faced by 3 rotties, and then the boy reacts to the "in your face dog". I now just turn around and walk out, the boy does calm down very quickly now, but initially this would signal the end of the walk, because he would be on high alert at anything and it just wasn't a pleasant experience.

But because of the breed - it's always us that gets the looks and comments, even when my guys didn't start it. You're right aswell about the little ones - I'm not sure whether this is because they a) actually feel threatened b) have short man syndrome so want to get in first, or c) haven't been trained by the owners as they now they can always physically restrain them if needed.

Rant over - just wanted you to know you're not alone.

T

Yes I think you have a point there in 'C'.  Thought this myself many times, why train it when you can just pick it up.

I'm going to have a rant too !! My 17 week old Border Terrier who is IMO a lovely well balanced young man was at training class last night, a young male lab who's owner had NO control of was lunging out at the end of the lead, my boy had palled up with a xbreed (prob FCR x collie) who was quite nervous, said lab got right in my boy and the xbreed's face and my boy politly told him to go away which the lab did for about a nano second, the next time my boy was not so polite (all noise nothing else). now i dont want this type of behaviour so i had a word with my young man, the lab owner said oooh your dog just attacked mine ......now i KNOW she said it jokeingly and i just smiled sweetly but inside i wanted to tell her what for about her hooligan that was terrorising all the dogs grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr . Next week if he does it again she will be told in no uncertain terms to control her dog.

I don't know if it is getting worse or my memory is getting worse!

4 TMs/ is a concern.....I feel a new breed note topic coming on!
Please be assured most TM owners are more responsible - although not all! :-)

Jeff.

> Rant over - just wanted you to know you're not alone.

Deffo not alone, we have this all time time where I live, not even in the park in the actual housing estate. I live in maisonette & my neighbour and I share ane enclosed garden aswell as an open plan garden and at night I wee the boys in the open plan bit before bed, well the other night there I was waiting for Razzle to cock his leg when from know where this staffy cross comes charging up and leaps on Razzle's back so I pull him back in to the house but this other dog followed us in & carried on having a go! I kicked it out and the shoed it away when 2 ladies appear and one asks what happened the other said oh nothing he was just having a pop............not even a sorry from them.

And once I was cornered at the entrance/exit to the estate by a collie that runs round free whilst the owners 7 year old child plays & of course has no control over the dog, so when I tried to walk back home he rounded us up all the way down the hill nipping at my dog!
Grrrr some people!

merlot, what breed do you have?
are they bernese?
im only asking cos my schnauzer is terrified of a nefie that goes to our park, not the same breed i know but similar size.
the newfie is black (but so is my schnauzer) and nearly all the dogs in the park bark fearfully at this dog, i think its just cos its so big and being black is more likely to be scary cos dogs apparently cant see the eyes of  black dogs.
my dog is ok with all other dogs except this newfie
i just wonder if its your dogs size that is scaring others?

I have a funny man with a funny dog who walks in the same place as me. My Viz is normally off the lead while we walk on a path in the woods - she is excitable but the least offensive dog ever. Normally when the guy see's me he panicks and hides in the woods while his dog is lunging and snapping at mine.

Now early yesterday morning while walking back from said woods towards my house on the pavement (on the lead and perfectly to heel) he actually crossed the road to avoid me! The one time his dog was off the lead the 2 of them just played (mine is a bit vocal while playing).

I'm convinced he thinks that my dog is going to savage his and I actually find it very offensive when it is his dog that is all teeth.....

we have a lady with two choc labs one an older male the other a youngster and they are both hooligans and she said it is part of there breeding, they are quite over the top, leap on other dogs, growl and snap at other dogs but she thinks it is alright , when she sees people comming up to her she just shouts they jump up at you,never attempts to put them on the leash at all, and we can't make her understand that they could knock someone over and hurt them she said well they will be labs and that is what they do.

I find it very annoying when people try and make excuses for bad behaviour by blaming the breed.  I have a lab and 2/3 lab crosses (Opi is guesswork but lab is likely :-P) - River is the only one who would ever think of jumping up without being asked and I have put a lot of work into stopping her.  It's working well, jump-ups are few and far between now.

Yes, labs are energetic - that's no excuse for bad manners though.

Dobes are clingy people-dogs with a thing for sitting on laps - but I would be mortified if my 3 went round sitting on every person they found.

I walk my staff and we always bump into westie and all it does everytime we see it it lunges and snarls on this occasion my sister was with me and said in passing that's not a nice one.
The bloke said it's not like it if he was off lead.
I replied with that will never happen because you think my dog should be muzzled.
I've had confrontation with this person before even tho my dog was not even retaliating even with all the noise and she needs a muzzle.
people think because there little dogs they don't need too train There dogs but they only have to see my staff and think its a devil one.

I'm a responsible dog owner with a staff unlike some round my area with there Pitbull/staff types walking with there's walking on tight lead and walking on their hind legs as they try to get to a dog.

Some people will never learn

Nessa

4 TM's off lead ! hope the owner had their running shoes on !.

I have to carefully time my local walks to avoid the pub owner walking his two BC's, he thinks nothing of allowing them to jump the wall of the field we have permission to use and letting them go for Ben ( this is the the only place I can let him have off lead exercise ) poor big Bendolina just woofs at them while they do their damnedest to get a nip in. Wonder if  he'd mind if I let the 2 SBT's welly in and help their big pal defend himself , I don't think so.

Tina S, just wondered how you react to your dog behaving in such a way to the Newfie?
To me that behaviour is just what we are talking about on here. If the tables were turned and that Newfie behaved in the same way towards your dog how would you feel?

There is a Schnauzer at one of my r/c's that hates my Bernese, she doesn't like any Bernese and tries to have a pop at him and any others she can. The owner has tried all she can to stop this. I've even tried to help her too, luckily my boy doesn't retaliate to this behaviour.

>You're right aswell about the little ones - I'm not sure whether this is because they a) actually feel threatened b) have short man syndrome so want to get in first, or c) haven't been trained by the owners as they now they can always physically restrain them if needed.<br />

As someone that has tiny dogs, I would like to put in my tuppence worth!  :-)

I expect my Collies to behave, so naturally I expect the same of the Chi's and Yorkies. And I couldn't be doing with snappy yappy little dogs.  Usually caused by fear, and total lack of introduction and socialisation as youngsters.

I know people used to laugh when I always stood next to the 2 ton Rottie boy when I started my last male pup at Ringcraft.  Ok, it did look odd to see a 3lbs dog licking a Rottie's toes, while the Rottie licked my boys ears, but the only "problem", if you could call it that, was the fact that my boy got ideas above his station!  :-)

He fell in love with a 5 month old bitch, and would have loved to court her.  As she was a stunning St Bernard girl you couldn't really blame him. :-)

And I know that I have told about the time I took him for his first booster jab.  It was nearing the end of surgery and I was the only person in the waiting room with my boy.  A guy walked in, took one look at my boy and sneered.  I'd better leave my 3 outside he said.  Yours will be petrified.  I didn't ask what he had, just told him that it wouldn't be a problem.  He said, oh it would, they are really big.  I said, bring them in.  He swaggered in with 3 Wolfhounds and my boy went up to say hello.

So please don't think that all people with small dogs are cretins!  :-)

I have a rottie and akita and spitz and i expect them all to behave regardless of their size, and regardless of what size the spitz think they really are, if i say no or leave they better do it first time, i always remember the first time we got our very first spitz, he was sitting on the back of the sofa and when my OH sat down the litttle so and so showed his teeth and my OH said don't do that and went to sit down again and teeth where shown again, so i got up and he was very uncermonisly picked up and dumped on the floor and OH told he is never allowed to be above you again oh but look how cute he ishe said, and if that had been the rottie i asked what would you of done, he would of been told was the reply well the same goes with the little dogs,they are all treat the same.

i have a rescue in at the moment and he is learning the ropes and quite quickly i have had him for about 3 months and he has gone from a dog that would growl and bark to a one that is quite happy now to walk by people and greet other dogs and it is brilliant to have comments from people i met on walks who i did say to he is a rescue not had him long so not sure how he is going to react around you or your dogs i did warn people first but he was always on a long line and now these people meet up with us all and he is happily running around with their dogs and greeting people and they have said how wonderfull i have done with him , but if he had been given to someone else it could of been diferent he could of become one of the dogs that you did not want to meet on a walk.

JeanSW,

You're right, it is all about socialisation. Most terriers will react before they think and try to use attack as a form of defence. I make sure I socialise my terriers with all kinds of dogs when young and especially with very large breeds.

My current one had an intact flattie as a mentor when he was pup, and he has had Wolfhound girlfriends. He caused much merriment at a show when he took a real shine to a Great Dane- who seemed more than flattered by his attentions!

Tina S, just wondered how you react to your dog behaving in such a way to the Newfie?

i immidiately leash her when we see the newfie, its not like i allow her to run up and bark in its face, other dogs do

Ditto to Jean, my Cavalier boy's best friend at ringcraft was an irish wolfhound, Henry used to put his whole head in the wolfhound's mouth to have a good sniff, and the wolfhound lay on the floor so they could play more easily. I expect my dogs to be friendly but not too forward, and to come back when called. Just because they are small doesn't give them any extra licence in my book. :-)

interesting thread,i too have wondered about other dogs reactions to my newfie,when out with my pug i have no problems at all,if i see the same dogs with my newfie its hell,he has no friends at all :(
i find small dogs like jack russles attack and have had one hanging off his neck,some boxers have growled and went for him,at obediance class a collie is constantly after him so needs to be kept away and at show class an akita was going ape,my other half was bricking it as the woman was holding on for dear life as the akita tried to get near stanley.
Stanley never reacts,even when the jr hung off him(owner thought it was funny until i gave her a mouthful) and when a labrador jumped on his back,even with growling etc,stanley does not blink!!! i assume this is a good thing,stan is on a lead at all times apart from when we visit a field that no one uses then he can run free.I feel sorry for him,i would love for him to play with another good size dog,all though,he has made a new friend at show class with a female chow so maybe there is hope,either that or a lonely hearts advert.
So is it stans breed,size,sex or colour that makes other dogs behave this way
jo

i think its a combination of being black and very BIG. my schnauzer will bark in fear at all big dogs ie st bernard and great dane but one bark and she forgets it (on lead i might add) But see the black newfie and her hackles are up untill we leave the park.
as i say,all the other dogs bark at it too.
perhaps thats why people have several newfs so they can be friends with each other

> i think its a combination of being black and very BIG.

I agree - and novelty.  Newfies aren't that common and I find with my dogs, when we come across a huge dog such as a newf, dane or wolfhound etc, they are a lot more cautious and clearly a bit in awe!  Giant dogs are actually the only ones I've never seen Soli react to - I think they are the only ones she doesn't feel a threat display would work on.

We met a 9 month black newf a while back and the dogs I had with me were very good with him, very careful and polite.

It's a shame you guys with your lonely newfs don't walk near me - mine would be more than happy to play with them :-) Opi especially, she gets very giddy with big boys lol!

I am just back from a walk with Tilly. I was trying to teach her lead work and not to try and greet every person she sees walking past her. Well it was a complete disaster and it wasn't her fault.

Lots of people just launched themselves at her making a fuss of her and encouraged their kids to do the same . They litterally just grabbed at her without saying a word to me. Then there were the people who dragged their kids into doorways and cowered even if she ignored them. Only 2 people actually asked me if it was ok to pet her before doing so - one was a woman with a toddler and the little boy was desparate to say hi the other was a person who had a DDB at home; both stood still and just asked if they could pet her before moving slowly and not rushing at her I really appreciated them doing that.

The dog walkers were just as bad; as I was trying to do training I tried to keep her away from them so she wasn't tempted to try and play but they would walk over and just let their dogs bounce all over her. A couple walked out of their way to let their JR meet Tilly and just stood by and laughed when it snarled and then bit her neck - poor Tilly just danced backwards and tried to hide behind me - I gave both of them a real mouthful for that.

Its very difficult to teach my puppy manners when the majority of people she meets don't have them.

>> So please don't think that all people with small dogs are cretins!

I'm sorry if I offended Jean, but I can't see where I gave the impression that I thought all people with small dogs were cretins. I used to have CKCS, who happily co-existed with my Bullmastiffs, but they were trained and used to large breeds - as I'm sure yours are. I was just theorising based on my experience of owning large breeds, that it tends to be the small breeds that "start it", and wondering why that is.

I've lost count of the number of small breed owners who have dragged their snarling and yapping "baby" away from my perfectly behaved girls, or picked them up because they can't get them to do as asked. I have wondered whether it was to do with their faces being predominately black, but I had a light masked Bullmastiff that would get the same reaction, so don't think the inability to read their faces being the cause.

I got home from work last night and The big bald one (O.H to the uninitiated) told me that Kezzie - CED was mind her own bussiness running around in the garden when a guy walking his lab down our lane off lead.the lab poked it's head through the bars of our gate and started barking at Kezzie.Kezzie then strolled over to the gate nipped the labs lip (no damage at all).The dog went of with its head between its tail and O.H told the owner he needs to control his dog and get it on a lead.A couple of weeks ago a woman with 2 JRT off lead attacked a horse on my lane.What makes dog owners think there dogs are under control when they can't even see them as they are too far away???

Hi Tadsy surprised that someone took offence to your post.The points you made seemed reasonable.

I don't think Jean took offense, rather her remarks were tongue in cheek.

>I'm sorry if I offended Jean

   

I'm puzzled now.  I thought it was easy to see my humour.  Obviously not!  Please be assured that Barbara has got my sense of humour right.