My 6 year old WSD bitch - Meg - yet another problem - thankfully she has calmed down from her trouble before Christmas that some of you may remember.  Now I have her crying and rattling the door at nighttime.  She went into kennels for a few nights the other week and when she came out - she followed me around the house.  I don't think she was very happy -it was a new place for her where she knew the owner and where I go several times a week for training. 

~She sleeps in the kitchen - where her basket is, a favourite chair to curl up in, a mat by the back door or under the table - plenty of choice and which has held no fear for her in the past - except when there are fireworks or thunder - and on the odd occasion when the wind is strong and it howls in the chimney.  On these occasions I let her come upstairs to sleep with us.  She is really stressed out on these occasions and I have made no fuss of her - just opened the door and allowed her to settle where she was happiest - with us of course.  Since coming out of kennels she made a fuss in the night - there was a bit of wind but she was only showing discomfort - not terror.  However I let her upstairs thinking she was a bit stressed from us leaving her in kennels.  Big mistake!  Give her an inch and she takes a mile. 

The following night she was quiet, then the next night a plane going over made an odd noise - made me sit up in bed!  She cried - I went down to her but stayed in the kitchen and watched tv until I saw her relax.  That was OK for the night.  Next night I had to go down several times to settle her.   This has gone on for the rest of the week and now is really wearing me out.  Last night I came down - sent her to her bed, told her to settle down and left her.  As soon as I was half way back up the stairs she was crying.  She eventually settled down and I nodded off to sleep (even when she is quiet I am snapping awake thinking I can hear her).  After about 3 quarters of an hour she started up again.  I just went down quietly and firmly told her to go to her box and settle down.  Each time I left her she was crying as soon as I turned the light off going back up the stairs.  So last night I left a light on!  That worked.  But goodness me I overslept this morning and I wonder how long I have to go on doing this!

I have made up my mind - unless she really does seem stressed - I won't stay in the room with her but just keep telling her quietly and firmly to go and lie down.  If she is stressed then I will stay until she relaxes but ignore her while I am there.  I have listened carefully for any unusual noises that may be worrying her - but I can't detect anything.  I think she just wants my company and is busy manipulating me into staying with her.  That in itself is seperation anxiety isn't it? 

There can be no option of just giving in and letting her sleep where she likes - I have my grandchildren to stay and I can't have her wandering about in the dark - never mind the fact that my husband may fall over her on his way to the bathroom.

I am interested to know if there is another way to tackle this please.

Have you tried DAP diffuser? and leaving a radio on low? and maybe a night light?

he wont fall over on his way to the bathroom, he will get used to 'foot feeling' to check he wont trip over in the dark
let her on your bed poor thing, she wants to be with her human pack

I haven't tried a DAP diffuser for this - only for fireworks - and of course it had no effect at all.  Will dig it out again and get a refill - as for letting her on the bed!!!!  That would be a step too far.  Before we know it she will be keeping us off it!  This is one dog not to underestimate!  Seriously - don't want her around with small children - the first noise they make she is going to be off to check up on them.  I know the oldest two don't take too kindly to having a dog jump up to check them - especially if they have just had a nightmare!

I fellover going to the bathroom at night.........................................he wont get used to foot feeling................I was doing 25 years or so.............

How about Zylkene?

Will she take to a 'comforter' of some sort ceejay?

Something with your scent on........... a nightdress, jumper, something that you have worn popped in her basket, it may well calm her down, along with one of those plug in night lights, which aren't too bright (if the light worked) she's obviously been thrown out of her comfort zone and needs to know you are there, it is taking her some time to get back to old routines.

You shouldn't keep going down to her, I know you are feeling sorry for her, but the more you go the more she'll need, I think she needs that comforter. :-)

That's a good idea Carrington.  I have to keep going down to her - she could damage the door for one thing, and if she continues to paw the door she just might find that she can open it.  Our second dog found how to open doors out and in - I know he was a bigger dog so leaning on the handle had more impact but it is only a matter of time before she accidently discovers how to open it. 

> but it is only a matter of time before she accidently discovers how to open it

Can you either turn the handle upside down or replace it with a round handle (which is what we have done with all the doors here ) :) ??

Did you hurt yourself Karen?  It is not him falling over so much as him treading on her - she will snap and cry out and he will be utterly confused - he gets up most nights.  I have used a night light when she has been about. Thanks for all the ideas everyone.  Time for bed - well hopefully.

Hmmm - just pondering here, and nothing I've ever tried out - but could a baby monitor work (but in reverse) if it's really getting to be a problem?  You would hear your dog - so the receiving end would be near your dog - but when you did hear the dog you could verbally settle the dog down using the bit that was usually with the baby.   Am thinking online here - so be gentle with me folks if there is something obvious that i've missed.  Second hand baby monitors are readily available quite cheaply.  If it didnt help - equipment easily sold on.

I'm not sure I can help but I can sympathise as my Chow is the same. 

As hard as it is I try not to respond to him as I think it is better for him to settle himself.  He is very relaxed with us but as soon as we go upstaires (he's not allowed) he starts pacing and 'squeeking' to himself.  Usually he settles within around half an hour. 

If he's still going an hour later I will go to the top of the stairs and tell him to get in his doona (bed) very calmly which he will do and will then normally go to sleep.

On very rare occasions he starts panting so I know he's more anxious, I go down to him and put him back on his doona and just do long, slow strokes the whole length of his body to calm him down and talk to him in a quiet soothing voice.  I don't put the light on, cuddle him or sympathise with him, just calm him down.

I've tried DAP with him as well but it was ineffective.
Mel

I have thought about a baby monitor - from the point of view that our bedroom is now on the second floor above the kitchen and I worried that I wouldn't hear her if she wanted to go out for any reason.  She has found that rattling the door harder and harder will eventually wake me up.  I can just about hear her crying but it wouldn't wake me.  Funny she has never thought to bark to get my attention.  I could ask my d-i-l if I could borrow one - I am sure my 2 year old grandson can make himself heard if he needs anything at night now!  Not sure how she would take it - but it would distract her from the door for a while! 
Last night I came down about 4 times and each time I just opened the door and sent her to her box.  Praised her for lying down and left.  The last time she gave up and settled. 

She has started early in the morning now - she woke my husband who came down and just let her out into the garden.  She is following us around the house in the day too.  She is a determined little dog.

I have a baby monitor with the receiving unit having a button that can be pressed to speak to the other end that is where the dog/baby is.

Thought I was having my grandson last night and I was going to try the baby monitor - I can here him in the next door bedroom anyway - he is well over 2 anyway.  But that was cancelled so I had my battle again - lasted over 3 quarters of an hour.  Everytime she got really noisy banging the door I went down to her.  She just walks away from the door and waits to see what I am doing.  If I can't get the right tone of voice straight away she ignores me.  Anyway finally I came in and said 'no' sent her to her bed - she responded - dropped my voice to a whisper and made her lie down, and settle down.  She was quiet all night.  When I came down this morning she got out of her bed came to me then went and got back into her bed again.  I left the kitchen door open and an hour later came down and she was still lying there.  Yesterday morning the wind was blowing - this morning it was still.  I have got to be so careful not to get too wound up about these night-time battles - I really don't want it to be a battle.

Have you thought about putting a baby gate across the kitchen door way instead of closing the door, she would be able to see out and may not feel so confined and cut off from the rest of the house and you.

It's difficult. I suspect she is very unsettled due to being away from you, and getting to be anxious about it.  I can't recall how old Meg is now, sorry, but as dogs get older they do tend to become more anxious when routines are disrupted and their environment can't be "relied upon".

As well as the DAP, you could try scullcap and valerian for a bit. Certainly worth a go :).

Lindsay
x

The kitchen door is a double door with glass panels in the top.  She can see into the hallway.  She can leap a dog gate anyway.

She is 6 now Lindsay and yes she does like her routines - I have noticed that.  Something upset Meg at the kennels I am sure - she had taken the hair off part of her leg and scratched herself.  They walked her in the paddock twice a day and when she was being brought back in and having her lead taken off she had snapped at the owner.  I have seen him handling her and he is very good with her = so I have no qualms about that.  Once off the lead she was quite happy to go back into her kennel and came back to him to make a fuss. It wasn't him but the situation.   I so wanted to get her into this kennel - after the last place I tried looked so awful yet she came out looking completely happy.  

Sorry ....was away1
Yes I broke my ankle, a compound fracture and disclocation.
Now cautious about night lights and such like.
KAren :)

You could always use a child gate to stop her from waking your grandchildren. My two sleep upstairs (as have all the dogs I've ever owned) and Ive never had anyone trip over them during the night.

If its means shes not stressed and you're getting a nights sleep I think its worth considering

Nasty - my husband broke his ankle a year last Christmas walking Meg - managed to find a bit of ice that hadn't melted.  He has a plate one side and pins the other.  He also picked up a filthy cold after sitting in the cold while shouting for help and then sitting around the hospital in his wet things.   He couldn't go out walking to clear his nose and suffered from not being able to breathe properly at night.  He gets very claustophobic at night now too.  Meg tends to sleep all over the place when she does come up with us - do hope it doesn't thunder tonight!!  One of her places is stretched out alongside the bed - like a mat!  Just ready to be trodden on!!!!
I only told her once last night and she settled.  Might be different tonight.  Off to club first to wear her out.

I feel his pain :(
Mine was February, pins in Tibia and a plated fibula! Luckily as it was 3 am, I was able to have surgery at 9, having fasted unknowingly.
Fingers crossed for you for tonight :)

Karen

Not nasty at all? Just trying to help? I read on here how important it is for breeders to find good homes for their puppies. My dogs are always allowed to be part of my family wherever  we are.
My ex broke his ankle and several other bones but didn't  make our boxer or children sleep downstairs at night

Everyones situation is different and they do what is best for them, because my dogs are not allowed upstairs does not make them any less part of the family it just keeps things in proportion as my husband and both children (now left home) are asthmatic.
From Ceejays previous posts Meg is quiet a reactive BC and will try and minipulate situations to her liking, there has to be a line drawn somewhere and if that means she has to learn to settle downstairs again then that is up to Ceejay, asking for advice on how best to handle the situation proves she is trying to work out what is going to be the best for Meg and her family.

> Not nasty at all? Just trying to help?

I think ceejay was referring to poloaussie and not saying your post was nasty - rather that the accident was nasty :-)

Sorry Flora2 that was careless of me - I pressed reply to Poloaussie then forgot to quote - Meg is part of my family but when my grandchildren visit I do have to keep a very careful eye on Meg - the children are too young to know how to treat her yet and she is nervous of how unpredictable they can be.  

Thats okay. I misunderstood :-)

I appreciate all families are different. My grandson is only a baby and sleeps beside me when he stays. I dread when he starts moving around but as my dogs have always slept upstairs they will continue to do so.   

My girl is pretty much the same.. She wont sleep in her own bed at night.. crys and is unsettled.. shes does however sleep in her own bed during the day.. her bed in in the dog room with the other guys..  i have just given in totally after many many sleepless nights and now she sleeps in my bedroom in her crate at the bottom of my bed.. she used to get that stressed about the whole thing she lost weight etc..since shes been sleeping in my room shes totally fine.. put weight back on and i also get a full nights sleep.. oh i know its just mad as she clearly sleeps fine during the day in her own bed in the dog room with the other guys.. i know she does this as i work from a salon in my drive and i am in and out the house all day letting the dogs out and checking them.. there is no understanding her so i just gave in.. not good but best for her and me...

She is calming down a bit thankfully - night before last she didn't make any fuss but woke me up at 1.30.  I let her out to the toilet because she drinks more when she has been training in the evening.   Last night I heard her start crying so I just called downstairs to her to settle down.  Next thing she was barking at the back door.  Had left the trickle vents open because everywhere seemed so stuffy so she may have got a whiff of passing cat.  There was also someone whistling close by.  Anyway she woofed a bit - not in a stressed way and then slept all night.  Well I didn't hear a thing anyway - I was making up for lost sleep.

I think your spoiling your dog pampering to her every whim. The more you give the more she will want. If it was me i would make sure that she had a good walk that day and when it was bedtime put her to bed and leave her. If she wines and scratches the door or barks ignore her, if she's still doing it after half hour go down and in a stern voice tell her to go to bed and make sure she does, no telling her she is a good girl, because she isn't a good girl she is a naughty girl. You need to toughen up with her because if you dont she will soon rule the roost.

Have you thought of the possibility of crating her in your room at night? that way she would be with you but out of harms way from the children and not a danger to your OH. Does she use a crate at all? It could become her den for escaping the terrors she obviously has in her head. May give her a new outlook on life if she knows she has a "safe" place all of her own.
Aileen

Actually crating is a good idea, at least while she is in there she can't scratch your door, but i would leave the crate in the kitchen.

ceejay, Think about this in terms of attachment.  You are your dog's main attachment figure.  Your presence and accessibility makes her feel safe and secure and helps her believe the world is a safe place.  The world did seem to be a safe place, and she was able to tolerate being separated from you and still believing this - until she went into kennels.  In kennels, you were no longer accessible.  You seemed (to her) to disappear and she was afraid.  Now you have returned and brought her home, who's to say this won't happen again, if she lets you out of her sight?  Your presence and reliability is no longer taken for granted.  She can no longer feel safe and believe that you will always be there when she needs you. 

So, that, in my eyes, is the problem.  The question is:  How to regain that feeling of security, so that she is able to sleep somewhere else and to be ok apart from you? 

I don't think it will be achieved by shouting at her to go and lie down, or by rejecting her.  That is likely only going to confuse her further:  She is scared, and she seeks reassurance from you, and you, her attachment figure and source of reassurance respond by rejecting her.  Then she really will be alone! 

I would treat her like a little puppy for a short while.  Because, just like a new puppy's attachments have been affected, so have hers.  It sounds like things might be settling down again, so perhaps you won't need to do this, but if you feel it's becoming a big problem, I would let her sleep by your bed (if she is ever let in your bedroom).  If she is already crate trained, then I'd crate her there.  And move the crate further away each night.  I'd go over the stages you go through with a new puppy, only it will be much quicker (we'd hope) because you're not doing it for the first time.  Let her come to believe that the world is a safe place again, so she can then be apart from you with this knowledge once more.  Calling down to reassure her is also ok - fear is the not the same as noise made by protest.  Fear noise should be addressed.  Protest noise can be ignored.  Telling the difference between the two can be difficult for new puppy owners, but you know your dog by now.