Hi all, you may or not remember that I have a bitch who has missed twice.  This last time she was scanned day 26 (very experienced sheep scanner), then day 27 (vet) and day 35 (same vet).  All have said no puppies.  The sheep scanner scanned stood up without shaving her.  Vet did her laid on her side (sort of on her back) and wanted to shave her although I declined.

I am sure I am going mad but she is completely different this time to after any other season.  Now she has had phantoms before but not quite like this.  She has much more mammary development than normal, swollen vulva, very greedy to the point of demanding (although she is normally greedy anyway).  She always puts on weight after her season anyway, regardless of how little food I give her.  I have had her on reduced food (as per usual) and yet she is still looking wide, although she's a broad bodied bitch anway to be fair.  She is digging frequently and a bit "giddier" in character than norm.  When she has a phantom, she is usually grouchy but no sign of that.

I suppose my question really is that she would now be 10 days off whelping.  Could it be possible that she has just a very small number of puppies (1 or 2) who could have hidden on all the scans?  Should I be seeing obvious "filling out" at this late stage regardless of number of puppies? I know I will find out in a couple of weeks but my concern is that if there is a single pup, a c section may be required and I need to
be aware.

Any other similar experiences?  I know anything is possible but just wondered about personal experiences?

I have bred a bitch, had her scanned twice at 28 and 35 days by a very experienced scanner and was told no pups. I was very broody at the time and so I bought my bitches grandson. A week later I had a gut feeling something wasn't right so had her scanned again (in the final week) and found she was carrying a singleton. It can happen. I couldn't part with the singleton and ended up with my two bundles of mischief. I Was also told this time at 30 days 2 pups showing and definitely a small litter. Re scanned a week later and could see six straight away. The scanner said there were so many they looked like frog spawn. What a difference in a week.

Hi Naomi, thanks for your reply.  Was your 3rd scan done by the same person?

If she is over 50 days then you can get an x ray done as this will pick up pups

Yeah same person and same machine. I have been to loads of scans now and its unbelievable the change form week to week especially in a deep chested breed. I personally wouldn't scan my breed until day 35 at least in future (alaskan malamute)

My girl had 2 phantoms - both scans showed nothing.The third time it showed she had at least 3 (scanned at 35 days at vets request).She did seem different to her phantoms but when I took her back for a check up and the vet thought she was filling out and putting on weight I had a gut feeling that she was no longer in whelp.Could feel no movement-never had -and she just wanted to be with her pack.Sadly as occasionally happens she reabsorbed them.Myself and her breeder were gutted. I have given her a break and have tried again this will be our final attempt and then she will be spayed.Fingers crossed as she should be 5 weeks - temping as it may be I am not having her scanned.

Thank you all for your comments.  My girl is a gsd and very broad bodied for the breed so I suppose there is the chance that a singleton was hiding at 5 weeks so I am considering having her scanned again just to be on the safe side.  If I am honest I am not really expecting there to be anything, I just want it confirmed that its a phantom. Cornishmals, I really hope its worked out this time for you.  This will be your 4th attempt is that right?

and last......2 good ties.
Just bathed her and all the signs are there.Back mammary glands very large and deep pink nipples,broadening around the waist,slight clear discharge around a slightly bigger vulva,stealing food from one of my other woos -which is very unlike her.Fingers crossed.I am having my nerve graft on my hand on the 30th june so if lady luck is shinning on me then I should have a week to convalese and quite a few weeks at home being midwife and Nanny.....mustn't get carried away....will keep you updated but may have to change my user name to keep admin happy.
Oh happy days - I hope.

Oh I do hope you are right!  4th time lucky, instead of 3rd!  Gives me hope to keep trying perhaps.  Yes, keep us updated!

Was there anything you did different this time?

Not get too obsessed,and didn't tell anyone I was going to try again lol didn't want to jinx it LOL.But nothing really different.But time will tell as her phantoms have been very realistic but have always had that gut feeling she wasn't in whelp.

Yes I can understand not telling anyone.  Does she have more mammary development this time that she did with her phantoms?  Sorry for all the questions.

Ask your vet for a Relaxin blood test .the result is either positive or negative

seems to be earlier this time,and very noticable at the back.Nipples seem more darker pink and firmer,and her appitite has increased -though I am not giving her extra at the moment as she is barf feed and this can cause her to gain weight.I am just getting alittle obsessed now and keep reading BOTB, and can recite most of it by heart.My last litter was 18 years ago!!!!

Hi Paris, is the test 100% accurate do you find?  I have heard of false negatives but that a positive is always a positive, is that your finding?

LOL!  You sound just like I did a few weeks back, I was obssessed about seeing signs. Not that I am saying yours aren't real ones! 

Yes it is if it is done correctly from day 32 onwards

Do bitches tend to show more signs and look like they are carrying pups sooner on a second litter ?

Yes they look bigger with a second litter even if there are less pups.

Thanks Paris. I am having her scanned again tommorow by the sheep scanner to be on the safe side.  I saw a small amount of sticky opaque discharge yesterday, only a very small amount.  I'm pretty sure she's not pregnant, she doesn't look big enough to be almost 8 weeks pregnant.  The different signs to her usual phantom are making me want to have my mind put at rest though!

how did the scan go zajak ?? xx

Hi White Lilly, no puppies as expected.  Good to know so that we can get back to normal and at least I know that any digging, etc is purely phantom. Maybe 3rd time lucky next time we try?

sorry to hear that your bitch has missed again... it's horrible isn't, my bitches first Litter she had a phantom and ended up going into full blown labour... it was awful to watch. But luckily that was her only phantom has had 2 litters (well one litter of 10 and a sihgleton) since then and has now been speyed! Good luck on your next try fingers crossed X

Thanks Emz.  Its a new experience for me, my other girls have never missed.  Still, its all learning isn't it?

so sorry to read this zajak ,i do wish you well next time and fingers crossed 3rd time lucky xx

Sorry to hear that :(  My fingers are still crossed that it isn't a phantom with my little lady.

aw how disappointing for you, my girl has missed twice now, we are having a third try next month, am considering covering her with abs this time and then cross everything!

Hope you have success next time

Thanks all :-)