Hi,  I have a lovely natured golden retriever who's 4.  I took him out for a walk the other week and a staffy tried to attack him.  He'd escaped from the owners garden.  The owner kept telling me to kick her dog, which I couldn't do.  Fortunately, she got her dog off mine and luckily he wasn't hurt.  Goodness knows how he wasn't hurt or killed.    

Yesterday whilst walking him a different staffy tried to attack him.  The owner had two staffies walking off their lead and I knew there was going to be trouble because the minute I saw her from a distance she started yelling at her dogs.  Again, fortunately she got her dog off mine. I don't know the owners and didn't wait around to ask for their details.  Otherwise, I would have reported it to the police.  I was more concerned with getting my goldie as far away from the other dogs as possible so didn't wait around. 

I've done some research and read that some people advise to get some pepper spray, but others say it will only agitate the other dog.  I don't want him to get hurt and he's so lovely natured I worry about the damage another dog could do to him in this situation.  I know its not the dogs fault as I walk with a lady who has a staffy who's lovely natured. 

As this has happened twice by two different dogs in such a short period of time I need some advice as I don't know what to do in these circumstances to defend my dog.  If people know their dogs are agressive why on earth do they let them walk off their leads and unmuzzled??

Please advise.
Thank you

There is not a lot you can do really, you could take a walking stick but if you use it to fend off an attack you may get bitten yourself. It is not so easy, although not impossible to muzzle a Staff type breed because of the shape of the head so I would think that is why people do not attempt it.

Perhaps in some innocent way your dog is inviting these attacks, has it only just started or has it always happened, has your dog been neutered, is the other Staff you were talking off with you at the time?

I carry a stout walking stick and will not hesitate to use it if needed.
too many idiots own powerful badly bred unsocialised untrained dogs to extent I no longer use the park on lovely sunny afternoons unless have o/h with me to help protect our dog for fear of running into them. early mornings are usually safe as the type of scutter who owns these dogs doesn't like getting up in the morning.  likewise walking next to fast roads tends to be safer as less off lead out of control about.

Not a pepper spray but you can buy something called Pet Corrector - a friend used this because 2 St Bernards kept escaping from their garden and imtimidating her collie which was not very friendly, to save any confrontation she used to use the pet corrector as the dogs approached and off they went on their merry way.  It just makes a loud hissing noise and cannot hurt a dog.  Its obviously not going to work in all situations but its definitely worth a try.
We've come across a man carrying a walking stick who proceeded to hit our dog for putting his paws on one of his bitches (no teeth no aggressiveness)....it just so happens his bitch was in season running loose in a field and our boy quite liked this...I have no time for people like this!

Pepper spray may work but, like hitting/kicking etc, it may make everything a lot worse - in an attack situation the attacking dogs is full of adrenalin and endorphins, and a hit will just exacerbate that and make the attack worse.  Years ago Remy was sidled up to by a gorgeous staffy - it did absolutely nothing until its owner smacked it on the bum for dog-knows-what reason.  The instant contact was made, the staffy went for Remy - luckily not too badly as me and Remy were trying to calm it down and very close by so everything could be stopped sharpish.  But if the owner hadn't hit the dog, nothing would have happened.  Similar thing in a fight.

I've heard a lot of people say they have great success in just getting in front of their dog and using the Voice of Doom - really bellow at the other dog to startle it into stopping its charge.  Some have said shouting 'sit' is surprisingly effective!

Pet correctors can work but the flipside is that you need to be sure it's not going to frighten your own dog too - otherwise even if he's been resilient to the damaging emotional effects of attacks so far, adding that noise may just be too much and make him anxious or outright fearful of any dog approaching in the future (especially if you use the spray to prevent an attack, as opposed to interrupting one).  If you put the work in to make the noise have good associations for your own dog it could be quite effective though.  Ditto water spray, again make sure it's not going to freak your own dog out.

If a dog does get to attack again, try not to use any physical violence for the reasons I've explained above.  Harsh as it sounds, the best technique I've found so far (having had to break up a number of fights last year thanks to irresponsible bookings by a home boarder I was helping) is to get a lead round the neck of the attacker, loop the clip end through the handle and pull it tight.  Hate doing it :-( but it is very effective - the attacker needs to breathe, after all.  And it means that once you've got the attacker off, it's already on a slip lead of sorts so it can't get loose and start again.

Thanks for your responses.  These attacks have only just started.  He is neutured and the other staffy wasn't with us at the time. I couldn't hit or kick another dog + I think it would make the other dog worse. 

Could be the fact that he is neutered but that is only one reason does he walk with his tail carried high or perhaps stare at other dogs. It could just be that you have been unfortunate in having a confrontation twice in a short time. In some ways I can understand the attack where the dog was on its territory he was probably just protecting it and the owner should make sure the fence and gate are safe to retain his natural wish to protect what is his but the attack in open ground is more worrying and one has to decide if the attacking dog has the problem or something about your dog attracted the attack. You can get a high pitch emitting aerosol that is designed to cause a dog to pause in it's intentions but I think it needs careful timing.

He does walk with his tail carried high.  He wants to play with everyone and everything.  Could that be a possible cause of the attacks?

I think I also need to take control of the situation.  As the 2 attacks have happened in such a short period of time I've now become nervous for fear of another attack and the dogs could sense this.  I need to give their dog a command...  say to sit or down.  Like you mentioned...the voice of doom. 

I think the first attack was the dog defending its own territory + the owner was standing by me as she was trying to find her dog (before it appeared from nowhere).  I'd seen the pet corrector online and had considered buying one.  What suggestions would you have for using this to ensure it doesn't make my dog anxious?

Luckily, the attacks don't appear to have made him anxious so far. 

It is possible that your body language is not helping try to tell yourself that the dog protecting it's home does not count, unfortunate but one of those things. The second may have misread your dogs tail carriage and perhaps steady stare not as an invitation to play but as aggression and you were just unfortunate to meet him. Would walk somewhere else for a while or only with others till you get more confident and then try to forget these two upsets, no actual harm done to the dog and it may never happen again.

You're right about the 1st attack as I think he was just defending his territory.  Think it was just a case of being unfortunate to be where we were when he came out of his garden.

I changed my walking route yesterday and felt happier about walking my dog.  I'm also going to start to tell him to sit everytime another dog initially approaches... this will stop him from carrying his tail high, which could be the reason he's being attacked. 

Main thing is though he's fine and despite what's happened he hasn't been injured and doesn't appear to be affected by this.

Your plans sound good to me, and I am sure you will soon regain your confidence.

> I'm also going to start to tell him to sit everytime another dog initially approaches... this will stop him from carrying his tail high, which could be the reason he's being attacked.

Sounds like a good idea, but I used to get Buster to sit when meeting dogs so he would look less intimidating, however some dogs seem to think a sitting dog is an easy target :( Bust has never been attacked in a physical way, but plenty of dogs have lunged/snapped/growled/circled him so now I don't make him sit.

I've asked advice here about difusing potential agressive situations and one of the things was to chuck treats for the approaching dog (not AT it, but out to the side for it to go to the treat and you to make your exit). I've personally not had any success with chucking treats (cheese) for appraoching dogs, but still worth a try.

Buster has met a few dogs where there has been a lot of 'tension' between them, tense body, (other dog rushing at him with him on lead), I found that an initial firm, "gentle" (to try to sound like I am in charge to BOTH dogs),followed with soothing & encouranging "good boy", repeating 'gentle' every now and then helps alot. 3 occasions stick out in my mind where I really thought there was going to be a scuffle, but it seemed to calm the situation down.

Try to keep your dogs lead loose when another dog approaches, it helps keep your dog relaxed (or, not tense in a negative way).

It really is suprising what difference a cool, calm, confidant attiude can make - so once you have a plan of management in your mind to deal with thse things, it's easier to be confidant.

> Main thing is though he's fine and despite what's happened he hasn't been injured and doesn't appear to be affected by this.

Glad he's OK and it's great that he isn't bothered :) It's really nice to hear your attitude, that you don't tar entire staffy breed as savage for a couple of incidents. Fingers cross that you don't have to deal with this again though, even if your dog wasn't injured or bothered, it's something you both could do without.

Hi,

I'm not convinced that the problem is anything to do with your dog. A high tail alone does not necessarily promote instant aggression on the part of most other dogs- if he was intact then perhaps, but you say he is neutered. If only recently neutered he may have enough testosterone in his system to make him provocative to other males, but it sounds like both dogs had to run some distance to get at him, so I'm not totally convinced by the high tail explanation.

I have a feeling that you have had the misfortune to run into two dog aggressive staffs/staff types- and this is not so unusual these days, I am afraid. In the second case this is rather supported by the owner's reaction to her two dogs running towards yours- I reckon she knew one/both would have a go. The first, well the staff may have been protecting his territory, but staffs are not known for being guardy or territorial, some will however go for another dog, any dog in their eyeline. In my experience staffs or staff types, bolting from the garden or front door or car etc.. to go for another dog is getting to be a more common occurence. The first owner's suggestion that you kick her dog off yours may also be a clue.

Has your dog recently been attacked by any other dog breeds, presumably he carries his tail high around most dogs? If not, there may be a clue there.

He was neutered 3 years ago.  I've dealt with tense dogs around him and that hasn't been an issue for me or my dog as I stay calm.  What threw me was that these dogs attacked.  They just ran and immediately pounced on him.  I pulled him towards me out of instint to protect him.  I didn't leave his lead loose like advised.  I'll do that from now on. 

He was bit by a golden lab when he was 4 months old.  He's 4 now. 

Well then, I would suggest the problem is not your dog, but the dogs you were unlucky to bump into in close succession. Having reread your first post, it is just possible that the garden staff got a fright and turned a corner to bump into your dog unexpectedly. Even then, a full on attack seems excessive. For me the clue lies in the owner's reaction, urging you to kick her dog. Sounds to me like she's been here before!

have you reported this to the police?

Interesting to hear people's ideas on how to stop attacks like this(especially as in this has been much discussed by dog owners where I live after another very sad incident).The problem is that staffies are so hard to get hold of as they are just solid muscle and there is no loose skin you can grab.Plus the fact that most staffies dn't seem to wear collars you can grab.A friend of mine suggested that if you pick up the attacking dog by the back legs and pull them away they will let go-I can't quite see how you could do this without getting bitten though?
Nikita's suggestion of using a lead sounds like a good idea though-its worth taking an extra lead just for this purpose(as if I saw a staffie I would put my dogs straight on their leads and walk away anyway).
Goldieoldie,I don't think its anything your dog is doing that is the problem either,just that you've been unfortunate to meet the wrong dogs.
Yes,I know some staffies are ok with other dogs,there's plenty of nice ones about but because the consequences can be so dire when they're not I always avoid them on walks.

>> Sounds like a good idea, but I used to get Buster to sit when meeting dogs so he would look less intimidating, however some dogs seem to think a sitting dog is an easy target :-( Bust has never been attacked in a physical way, but plenty of dogs have lunged/snapped/growled/circled him so now I don't make him sit.
>

But surely that is just fear aggression due to his size being intimidating(and he isn't really in any danger of being attacked)? I was speaking to the owner of a Great Dane a few weeks ago who is a big softie who said he is always having dogs bark and lunge at him but he must just know the other dogs are scared and aren't really a threat and he never retaliates.

Agree a high tail does will not necessarily be perceived as aggressive but some dogs are not good at reading body language, I know I have one, and they will miss interpret.

The reason I asked about the castration. that alone can confuse and anger a male dog, castrated dogs may smell like in season bitches in which case they will be pestered and mounted or they may look like a dog but not smell like one and this can stimulate aggression.

have you reported this to the police?

Why would you do so?

if someone is unable to control a dangerous dog that is what I would do.

Goodness knows how he wasn't hurt or killed.

This tells me the dog that attacked is dangerous and was out of control. under the dangerous dog act you dont need to have a dangerous dog you only need to have a dog that is out of control and scaring someone. In this situation the dog would apear to have been out of control and dangerous....unless I have read it wron. if I have I am sure someone will tell me.

Nova, I understood your point and was not implying you were wrong, in addition, staffs are not always the greatest at reading canine body language or indicating intentions with their own. Nonetheless, it was the overall picture that made me question the high tail as root of problem and I cannot ignore the pertinence of dog breed and owner reaction, in this case.

The OP has now said that their has been tenseness with other dogs before but no problem. That is a further clue and might bring us back round to your point. All in all, I guess, highlighting the limits of offering advice by remote.

A friend of mine suggested that if you pick up the attacking dog by the back legs and pull them away they will let go-I can't quite see how you could do this without getting bitten though?

If you grab a dog's hindlegs and pull upwards they cannot easily bite you. However if that dog has hold of yours and does not let go, you could potentially make the injuries worse, so it's very much a two edged sword.

> But surely that is just fear aggression due to his size being intimidating (and he isn't really in any danger of being attacked)?

The worst case I've seen towards Buster was recently with a collie we were walking past. Buster had not even seen it, he was busy with his nose in the hedge, as we got past the dog it lunged at Buster from behind (I was between the collie and Buster, it lunged past me), errupting into a very aggresive display of snarling, snapping, growling all the while straining at it's lead to get to Buster, so much so it was on it's back legs with effort to get at him.
If that dog had not been on a lead it would have attacked Buster, I've no doubt about that atall, it went form laying nicely on a slcak lead to a full-blown lunge in an instant. I spotted it on the way up the road, it was laying nicely on a front lawn (not it's own front lawn, it doesn't live in this street), giving no indication of threat or fear,  if it had've I would have crossed the road so as not to frighten it with Buster, but it didn't it waited nicely untill we had just passed it then launched itself :( Buster hadn't even seen it, the first he knew about it was the sound it was making when it launched it self at his rear end! (I wonder which dog would have been accused of being the 'dangerous' dog, if the collie had got loose and Buster defended himself? bet it wouldn't be the collie)

However, on this occasion, Buster decided he would sit down on his own accord, watching but not looking directly at the dog. I'm pretty sure he was trying to calm the dog, but nothing would calm it down. That dog was, at that time, a real threat to my dog, the collie may not do that to other dogs and he may well have been frightened of Busters size but behaviour like that can not be brushed of as 'just' fear aggression. If my dog were to do that I'd have the police at the door and if a staffy were to act like that, rumours of the dangerous staffy would spread like wild-fire!!

Not all fearfull dogs act aggressive, 'aggression' is problem behaviour, no matter what the root cause, a dog with fear-aggression IS a potential real threat.

I may have given the impression that there are regular incidents where dogs are tense around my dog.  On occassion I have come across a situation where an owner walking passed has informed me that their dog is aggressive.  These are the type of occassions I was referring to.  When this happens I just tell him to keep closely to heal and walk calmly passed.

I didn't report it to the police.  The area concerned in the first attack was surrounded by houses so it was difficult to know where the owner lived and my main concern at the time was to get my dog as far away as possible from the dog in question to prevent it from attacking again.  My car was parked quite a distance away.  Would the police record incidents with such limited information?

By pulling the dog away by its legs may result in further injuries and raises the risk of me being bit too.

I make sure that I decide whether or not he can play with individual dogs.  He's such a good natured and playful dog and he'd go up to every dog to play if I'd let him. 

> He's such a good natured and playful dog and he'd go up to every dog to play if I'd let him. 

Ahh bless him :)

It's just not fair is it. People should keep thier dog under control You go to the effort of keeping your friendly dog under controll yet have had your dog attacked by unfreidnly, loose dogs

I wouldn't say it was your dogs fault,it's just bad timing all round, too close to property and an owner with no control.

I am a trainer and yet my 4 month old collie pup was attacked by a HUGE mastiff in Jan this year. Now I love dogs but attacking mine is like attacking my sons!! Brings out the lioness, if I can't use my voice to stop the attck,which usually works then my welly is gonna find ya!! In the attack on the pup,I knew it was coming asI knew the mastiff and he shouldn't have been off lead as he has issues. He targeted my pup out of my gang and went for it, and so did I!! I pushed him away but he was just too strong so when he started mauling her I fell to my knees and got my arms round his neck and pulled up. That didn't stop him so I stoodup and booted him, behind ribcage, not with all my strength but he still persisted. I went back to dragging him off and that worked and ended up with my pup out of his mouth and me being dragged down the path on my kness by this dog. What did the owner do??Nothing as he's an oap and couldn't have done a thing.

End result dog was reported to police, now got a crimnal record and I have put months of work into my pup. Yet I live in Manchester, which at times feels like staffie central!! Last week another cat was killed by these dogs, whilst being on leads. Week before last booted another staff off a dog whilst on a wallk. Same dog who attacked did same week before to another dog I walk. If there is another attack I will report the dog as owner does nothing but wallop his dog after the attacks, thereby making it worse as I told him, whilst asking him to stop hitting his dog.There will always be dogs who attack others for fun, just humans do. What you do is react!! Grabbing dogs can get you bitten but a well aimed boot behind the ribs togther with a lead cracked on the ground behind the dog stops a lot of it.

I like staffs and have lots of them in my groups but I hate the staff owned by someone who doesn't understand the nature of the beast. Same as a collie,same for every dog breed.

Well,that does sound rather horrible,Mastifflover,it sounds like your boy is a real softie to not react to something like that.I wasn't meaning to make out that fear aggression isn't a problem at all.

Gm,

I think most agree, problem most likely not your dog, but the staffs.

> I live in Manchester, which at times feels like staffie central!!

Bristol is pretty much the same, and sadly so many fo them are badly bred ones, some deliberately bred for 'aggression' and then end up in the hands of families who haven't a clue about dogs, as well as the yobs.

How sad is this world that you've ended up with a criminal record for trying to stop the dog mauling your pup? How does the law protect innocent dogs who are attacked by dogs who's owners either can't control their agressive dogs or walk them off the lead?

I know we were just in the wrong place at the wrong time and I'm going to continue walking along our new route.  I have a spare rope lead that I'll take with me and will also get a corrector.  It's a bit like having children.... one child and loads of accessories.  One dog and loads of accessories to prevent him from being attacked. 

On a lighter side I got totally lost yesterday as I ventured into parts of the estate where I live that I've never been before.  We ended up having a walk that was a lot longer than it usually is.  No complaints from his nibs though!

> How sad is this world that you've ended up with a criminal record for trying to stop the dog mauling your pup?

I might have read that wrong but I thought happyhoundlover meant the dog got a criminal record ie had a control order placed on it.Please,HHH,say it wasn't you with the criminal record or the law really is completely insane!!

I may have read it wrong?  I interpreted as you'd got a criminal record for defending your dog.  No doubt you'll clarify. 

But I don't really see how either of these excuses have anything to do with it. The staffies came from a distance & didn't have time to know whether this dog was castrated or not. Neither do I think the high tail carriage was to blame. Unfortuntely some 'staffies' & I am not tarring them all with the same brush, can't be trusted & will attack just for the sake of it. In my opinion, the Golden Retriever was in no way to blame, it was the other dogs owners. I have a rescue GSD who does not know how to greet/meet other dogs. He prefers to 'floor' them & really give them what for. Then he will play. I put him on the lead when I see loose dogs & he is only allowed off because he is very obedient & will NOT go out of his way to cause trouble, or run off & attack other dogs at random. I was walking this morning & a very bouncy (small) staffie came out of the woods running towards him. My dog was held by his collar, but as the person who was walking her (not the owner) could not stop her attacking my dog, or get hold of her, there was a bit of trouble. My GSD pulled away from us to defend himself & managed to pin the dog to the floor. He sounds very aggressive but actually he has never attacked anything, he just sounds terrible. The chap then managed to get hold of the dog & explained that she couldn't be trusted & had attacked various dogs for no reason. Now, why the hell did he have her off the lead.............it's the owner's.........in this case not the owner, but the dog walker!

Yep, definitely the dog and NOT me that got the crimnal record!!! Did give me a good laugh though reading your posts!!! And it is most definitely the staffs that are badly bred and used as status symbols that offend the most. Since January this year over 6 cats have been killed by this type of dog in a small 5mile radius. Local police refuse to do anything or did till my pup was attacked. After 2 hours of wrangling on the phone with them I called Trevor Cooper( solicitor in dog law) got everything I thought I knew confirmed and made a complaint about police procedure. Within 30mins they were back on the phone, sweetness and light and resolving the matter. When another locallady got bitten defending her own dogs police backedout again so she went to the paper where the police openly said they could do nothing about dog to dog. To cut long story short I ended up in paper complaining about police and telling them what law to use as they don't seem to know. I fully expect there tobe an incident in Manchester in the 12months that ends badly. I know of 1 recently that had a news blank out on it that involved a 3 year old girl and a bulldog. Not good.

> A friend of mine suggested that if you pick up the attacking dog by the back legs and pull them away they will let go-I can't quite see how you could do this without getting bitten though?

The idea is that you lift the back legs and start walking backwards, weaving if necessary, so the dog has to walk on its front legs to stop itself hitting the ground.  That way you can get both dogs to a safe distance and secure them.

That said, it doesn't always work.  It didn't work on the fights I had to break up last year - that was a staffy mix, her MO was to get onto the other dog's back and just latch on.  Purely fear-driven, if she latched on the back of the neck then the other dog couldn't do anything.  A fear aggressive display to the extreme, bit like pinning someone to stop them hitting you.  The only thing that stopped her was the lead trick.  First fight I tried to walk her backwards and she just would not let go.

early mornings are usually safe as the type of scutter who owns these dogs doesn't like getting up in the morning.

had to laugh at that!

i think a dog attack is so fast there is little you can do and mine in that situation spin in circles so no chance of grabbing legs

You could always carry a "pop out " umbrella ( and with our weather it's probably sensible anyway ) I've always found the surprise factor of having an umbrella pop out in their faces deters most dogs.

Like the pop up umbrella suggestion although I doubt my OH would entertain the idea lol!

I have 3 Goldens and I don't think I've ever had a serious problem with an aggressive dog. I do however count myself as very lucky and know that something as unpleasant as this could be round the next corner!!

That said, I have often "faced off" dogs who are being persistant, or chase my puppy around when I'd rather they didn't! I tend to walk where there are paths, and we cross paths with several other dog walkers, dogs of every size, shape, and temperament. I don't have any problem with laying down the law to another dog if the owner has no control. Not surprisingly i've had 100% success so far. Funnily enough my only male, will come and stand behind me if he feels threatened so I have no choice but to protect him (he's a big softy too!!!).

To the OP, when passing any dog you're not sure of, especially if both are on lead, I would always have myself between my dog and the other dog. Letting dogs pass dog to dog is more likely to lead to problems.

Hopefully these instances were just a fluke and you won't have any more problems. Remember, your fear will go right down the lead to your dog, so try to be upbeat and in charge (not always easy I know :)).

A few years ago I fostered 2 large dogs (different breeds) who had been kept confined in a small room. I noticed  that they never eyeballed eachother or other males and they were never a target for other dogs.

When walking my oldie off lead we were approached by a Rottie who'd escaped from the pub. He had a reputation for being a thug. I didn't want to shout at him so said hello to him in a high jolly voice and threw some dog treats to him and quickly got my dog away.

To the OP I think it's very unfortunate that your dog has been a victim of unprovoked attacks but one of my castrated males was always a target for entire males to hump &/or pick a fight with.

I carry the Pet Corrector.   I used it one lovely sunny afternoon when I was walking with my Goldie over a lovely green field when he was attacked by an off lead Staffie.  
The owners of the Staffie (two rough looking eighteen-ish years old) tried putting him on the lead but werent quick enough.  I used the spray and he let go immediately.  
The man started screaming and swearing at me for using it.  Seems that they had no idea what it was but he did let go immediately - probably surprised him.
It was okay for their dog to bite mine who was minding his own business BUT not okay for me to protect him...