I am keen to find out from others their beliefs regarding their dogs temperments. Do you believe that your dog is going to have his temperment regardless of how you handle it or do you believe that its half genetics and half handling or purely the handling that produces a well balanced dog?

I personally believe that if you handle and treat your dog properly that it will grow into an adult dog that is a delight to have . Though I do recognise that some dogs are harder to handle and train than others.

Have I been lucky to have had to dogs so far that have been very lovable and constant companions by way of their genetics or by the way they were treated?
(one was a doberman the other a cross boxer)

Now on third dog (doberman) and hope that through care and respect we have for him, the food and warmth provided that he will turn into a dog to be proud of - if he doesn't will have to reevaluate my view of nurture over nature.

Karen.

I believe some depends on genetics, some on early socialisation and experiences, and some on your relationship with your dog.

Logically it must be a combination of all factors. I used to think it must be down to upbringing, but I now have two litter brothers (I wanted to keep a bitch from the litter, but got NO dog enquiries, couldn't possibly keep three puppies, so got left with the leftovers - being the breeder, you don't always win...) Anyway, these two have had EXACTLY the same upbringing - same training classes, same walks (together and seperately) and have such remarkably different characters you'd think they weren't related at all! Neither is like either parent in temperament, but are both lovely boys.

I do believe that as puppies all have different characters, if you handle them wrong (rough treatment to a sensitive puppy etc) you can ruin them.

I also think it vital that the temperament of BOTH parents should be beyond reproach, as the mother will teach what is, to her, normal behaviour to her pups. Grumpy parents lead to grumpy kids!

A good temperament in a pup can be spoilt by the wrong handling, but I believe basic inherited bad temperament is incurable, and the dog will always be a liability.

I believe it is a little bit of breeding (the breed) and how they are raised.
ttfn :)

I believe you can ruin a dogs temprament but cannot improve it. So saying with training you might be able to control it

Regards, John

Hi
Only had one dog that was aggressive:(
Picked up a belgian shepherd bitch at 9 weeks old and treated her the same as dogs I had in the past. At 6 months old she bit my year old son on the face. My vet advised me to put her 'down' :( I decided to take her to see Roger Mugford.
We followed his training program but unfortunatly she did not improve:( She was rehomed by a farmer who knew of her background, she bonded with him and did not come into contact with any other people. Last thing I heard she was doing well :D
Maybe family life was not for her!!
Vickie

This is such an in teresting post! I have often wondered this myself - I too feel it may be a question of genetics, upbringing, plus a whole host of other X factors!!! :)

I have heard of pups that have been genetically OTT when say, guarding objects around the house, (and all the litter are the same.) Some members of the litter went to different homes and owners could not cope, and the pups were pts. Two were helped with a behavioural programme and turned out to be good family dogs (with help - they would not have been otherwise).

I do feel different breeds suit certain people best, also that some dogs are in the wrong home where they may have suited a different home better.

I wonder if we can ever really answer such a question, but thankyou for bringing it up :)

Lindsay

My feelings are that puppies who have the best start: Good natured parents and the right handling from the breeder and correct upbringing from the new owner will almost always produce a good temperament. It depends how you define temperament. Temperament could just be defined as whether it may bite or threaten, but I feel it includes the dogs personality. Does he panic, is he hyper active, does he have confidence in unfamiliar surroundings? - all these traits can be encouraged or discouraged by the way they are brought up. It doesn't take much for a puppy to become fearful if put in a situation it cannot cope with: aggression from other dogs, frightened by children etc. A puppy that has a good genetic and breeder"start" can easily have its temp ruined by ignorant handling, very quickly, no amount of good genes will overide bad/ignorant handling in the formative months. In a litter one can have very biddable puppies and those that are a bit more wilful, but all can be turned into happy good natured dogs with the right upbringing imo. The exceptions would be the breeds that suffer from a rage syndrome or those that are unwell in some way.

Some dogs are bred for a higher prey drive/better working instinct/better guard dog/better pet/better looking/ etc etc. Some dogs think a lot more than others, the APBT evaluates everything you say then it will weigh up the benefits against the disadvantage of doing what you say. While some just carry out your commands without question. So I would say that first you have to consider what your chosen breed was bred for originaly. then where the breeding over the last 50 or 100 years has taken the breed. From here you can then decide whether you have the capability or experience to train and socialise the dog properly.
I would think its a combination of breed characteristics/socialising when young/and generaly understanding the particular breeds needs.
I think an APBT is the best dog in the world. As does everyone about their chosen breed. I would not recomend an APBT to anyone, as it requires a totaly different kind of control. I dont mean physical control although there is that also, its a psychological control that is required more than anything as you cant fight with these dogs. They must listen and respond without delay. Im quite sure there are several breeds like this, the german pinscher being one.
If people put more time into picking a breed for the right reasons rather than appearance all dogs would be more sociable.

Regards mick

It is not only the different breeds which can be in the wrong hands Lindsay. I well remember some years ago reading the late great Mary Roslin Williams bit in Dog World. She was saying just this same thing. The point she was making was that the "Harder" strong willed Labrador was what her husband always looked for in a litter whereas she found them almost impossible to get along with much preferring the softer quieter Labrador.

I know working people whose very demeanour would destroy the softie but whose own harder type literally worship them. By the same token I find so often in class a person who is continually being challenged by the strong willed dog
and just looking I can see that the chances of really getting on top of the dog is slim. I always look for signs of future nature when looking at puppies. That’s the reason I hate people trying to pick a puppy for me. Only I know exactly what I’m looking for.

Regards, John

YOu're right to make the point about matching individual dogs and people, John :)

The dog i have now was the top pup in the litter and is far more of a training challenge than any dog i have ever had - but luckily I am adapting well and we are "gelling" and bonding as we learn. At this time in my life, and because i am so keen on training and feel she is a little cracker, it is all great fun and interesting. Hmmmm - the same situation in maybe 20 years time, and frankly i would be absolutely exhausted and unable to rise to the challenges she presents to me :p ;)

I too feel it is best to choose one's own pup or dog, as although experience must be part of the choosing, the gut feeling plays a big part too :) ( I remember you saying sometime back that you leave the top puppy to others and try to choose the second puppy? I know why :p)

Lindsay

<<<Now on third dog (doberman) and hope that through care and respect we have for him, the food and warmth provided that he will turn into a dog to be proud of - if he doesn't will have to reevaluate my view of nurture over nature.>>>>

Are you having problems at the moment other than normal puppy behaviour, as you write "turn" which indicates change, rather than "develop" ?

Christine

Christine - no problems other than the usual just my grammer.

Everyone -

It seems to me that most of you would agree that when thinking about getting a dog you should firstly do some homework about the different breeds e.g. find out their breed characteristics. Then you would have a good idea of how they will turn out, but even then as John said you are likely still to get variants e.g. a dog that may have a harder or softer character. Most people I imagine though would find it difficult to ascertain the type of training a dog needs, hence the need for training clubs where hopefully the trainers will be able to judge the charater of the dog.

I now believe that is half and half - half nature of the breed and then half nurture by the dog owner.

John, I find it interesting about what you say about getting on top of a dog as my husband is constantly telling me to do this to our puppy. He says I must be harder on him if he is to do as he is told and know his place in the family. He himself has a GSD which he has for work and when he tells me how hard they are on some - to get on top of them - well I can tell you I don't like it - but thats another story. He to says that some dogs have to be treated harder than others because whilst one dog would think nothing of a hard checking another would fall to pieces.

I've found everyones opinion very interesting.

Thanks
Karen

Hi Karen,

I'm sure what your husband says is right with MOST gsds. I have dalmatians, and they are a breed that, if you try to bully them, you've lost. Full stop. They won't do anything for you. They'd literally die before helping anyone they don't trust.

Get their trust and they'll do anything.

Surely dogs are like humans ??
There are some that no matter how you treat them and no matter how ell you treat them there will always be the odd one you cannot help ? :(
I do beleive that if you are a responsible and loving owner then you are doing the best for your dog that you possible can .
Dogs are like children - they need the discipline and love and they need to know right from wrong .
Lel

I think "firm" when applied to handling styles rather than hard. Voices are so important. A man's voice sounds hard even when he is praising the dog! We give an order, not a request and we expect that order to be carried out. What we do if it is not depends (or should depend) on the nature of the dog. If it was my Bethany then she would openly defy me and i would really have to read the riot act. With Anna, if I said "Bad Girl" you would think her little world had come to an end. That is two bitches of the same breed! In a lot of ways, Bethany was easier to handle. Far harder to get wrong. But with quiet handling Anna is a much better worker! But I have to be so very careful or I would destroy her!

Regards, John

Oh John, you're SO right!!!! Most male voices (take away the words) sound like a growl. Male humans find it very difficult to get the correct tone of voice, their pitch is naturally too low. They have to concentrate on really "hamming it up" and are FAR too embarrassed to do this in public!

With my dogs, (male or female) a raised voice is the end of the world. It's so terribly easy to destroy their confidence....and so hard to regain it.

Hi Karen

Relieved to hear it - you had me worried for a while there:)

I do know that it is extremely difficult to believe but husbands may, on very rare occasions, be right, and I would tend to listen to yours where the dogs are concerned. I was very impressed with his handling and the way he adapted to suit between individual adults and puppies as this is something that is rarely seen

Christine

I'm interest in the term "get on top of" your pup. I agree that with guarding breeds(especially dobes) your must be the "Top Dog" (or Top Bitch in your case!!!!!!haha!! just joking !!!! come on, give us a smile!!!), and I have been reading a lot on this topic through internet and books like Jan Fennell and all seem to do things slightly differently. But one thing that I was intrigued to read was.....
if you tell a dog to "down" and he doesn't, you ussually force him down. We, as humans, would then assume we are dominant(cos the dog is now doing what we wanted him to), but in actually fact the test comes the next time you give the "down" command. If he does it, even if it is quite sheepishly, he has ACCEPTED (very important word) you as leader, if he does not.....then he hasn't. Just thought you might be interested to know that.....Dont know how true it is, but after reading that, I've changed how I "communicate" and it seems to have worked great.

But the most important thing of all is enjoy your puppy its not all work and no play.
sandy.