I have noticed for a while now that Tilly (bullmastiff) seems to have a problem with her back legs. She is only 17/18 weeks old so I thought she would be a little young for anything like HD but I am not sure.

Her tail seems to hang off centre and when she walks away from you she seems to be dropping one hip lower than the other. The fur across her back also seems to twist to one side too. My hubby can't see it and thinks its just the fur causing me to think it but I mentioned it last night in Puppy class and the instructor said she could see it and thinks her spine is twisted to one side rather than a hip problem. She said it looks like she is being lazy with one leg but it is probably the way she is turned

I have booked an appointment with the vets tonight (although my trainer said they may not want to xray as she is so young and still growing). Anyone have anything like this before? Anyone make any suggestions on what I need to ask the vet - mine seem to do a better job if you ask them lots of questions rather than just leaving it to them!!

I will see if I can get a video of her walking so you can see what I mean.

Thanks in advance.

it could be hd as most damage is done in the first 3 months

Well the vet has decided that she needs to be xrayed so tomorrow she will be put under general so they get a goot look. I am obviously a little nervous at that. Thank goodness for insurance!

Our older boy was put down ealier this year with advanced HD, me and my sister noticed there was a problem the first time my parents brought him home but rather than taking him back to the breeder we got him neutered and loved him as a pet. There are many clinical signs for HD but the dog may not show them, for instance Thunder never did the tell tell 'bunny hop' when he ran but couldn't get into the back of a car he never slept or sat with his legs under him but to one side.

HD is both hereditary and environmental so dogs can be born with it or develop it from an accident or poor feeding. Unfortunately Bullmastiffs are prone to the problem however its not usually shown with the tail being held to one side, so the idea that it could be spinal seems more likely. Puppies sometimes gait a bit odd when young especially if its a breed with a lot of growth and development i.e. high rear end may take the gait out but will right itself when the dog levels out. However the puppy shouldn't look lazy so you have done the right thing to get her seen to straight away, an x- ray is the only way you can asses, they PenHip from 4 months in Europe so she should be OK to be X- rayed.

What you should be asking....

Is it HD and if so how bad?
Is one hip more effected than the other?
If its not HD what else could it be so spine, knee etc?
What medication will the dog need to be on and what side effects will it have?

I have just dropped Tilly off at the vets for her xray.

I have to call at 2 to see if she is ok and will be able to pick her up at about 5. I will be on tender hooks until then!!

I just had my Mother in law on the phone telling me that she will need to be PTS and will be in agony and a load of doom and gloom. Then when I told her off about that she told me I should send her back to the breeder - I put the phone down at that point as I would no more get rid of the dog than I would my son!!

Oh that was something you really did not need to hear right now!!

I would still contact the breeder and let them know the results just to keep them clued up on how their pups are progressing.

Hi All

For anyone interested in Tilly's Xrays....

It is not her hips it is her spine. She has a Hemivertebrae (one of her vertebrae is triangular shaped and the two either side are wierdly shaped to accomodate it)which is causing her spine to curve one direction. When they xrayed her they also found a second area of the spine where the vertebrae are miss shaped causing her to have a slight hunch back starting at the ribs which is why her back isn't that level.

Apparently its common in bulldogs so I guess Tilly must be throwing back to when they first mixed Bulldogs and Mastiffs to get Bullmastiffs.

Vet said there is nothing we can do as its basically a birth defect. They advised that we don't spay until 18 months (we were going to do it at 2 years anyway) to ensure her bones are given a chance to develop properly, no long walks or rough play until 18 months (which is what we were doing anyway - we were following the 5 mins per month) and they want us to ensure her food is 80% complete and 20% other things like raw meat, eggs etc.

So I am going to give her breeder a call to let her know how Tilly is - I usually contact her via FB and email for updates - so she can decide if she needs to check Tillys litter mates (I know 2 are possibly going to bred from in the future if they show potential - one by her and one that went to the Stud owner).

Sorry to hear this sad news. I hope the breeder is supportive.

I hope it doesn't cause her to be too disabled as she grows.

Did the vet say what to expect in the long run?  Will the spinal deformity get worse?

They just dont know but they do hope that she should continue like she is now - lobsided but not in pain! They think she will develop arthritis early as it will be putting stress on bones and joints at strange angles.

Just off the phone with Tillys breeder. She was absolutely lovely; I called as she was putting together an email for all Tillys litter mates owners showing pictures of all the puppies as they grow so we can compare them. So concerned for Tilly but once I reassured her that our little girl isn't in pain etc she felt a bit better.

She hadn't heard of the problem before so is off to spend the evening with google to see what she can find out. She immediately offered to have Tilly back but I told her no way was my baby leaving me - no matter what a vet said that was never ever an option!! She then offered a full refund even though we are keeping her which I wasn't expecting and I turned that down too. She argued with me alot and I have agreed that she can send some of the money back and it will go towards any increase in Tillys insurance next year as a result of this issue. I really didn't want to take the money as I love Tilly no matter what but she was very sure that she had to pay something to make her feel better. Do other breeders feel the same? As I said before it surprised me I expected the offer of returning her but not a refund instead.

She is going to be visiting this area at the end of the month with Tillys sister so we are going to meet up then.

I just wanted to say what a fabulous, supportive breeder she is and your girl is ever so lucky to be loved so much by you.

Full marks to the breeder. Sorry your girl has this problem, hopefully it won't prevent her having a long and happy life with you.

Our older boy with the HD also had the same spinal defect as your girl, unless its a very small world I think it probably is more common than one would like to believe.  Thunder could never roll on to his back but lived a happy life however with the complicating issues of advanced HD and the spinal deformity he was never bred form and in the end out of kindness was put to sleep by the age of 4.

The spinal deformaty is nothing to do with HD it i a ressesive gene plz dont try scaring her you dont know enough to make a coment like that Triona. it is just unusuall to have it in the spine it usually is in the tail as in crak/kink tail.

i am so glad that your breeder has been so good, there is no dna test so unless you know that your dogs are carriers of this gene then untill it happens you could never know.

good luck i do know that a kink in the tail does not cause any pain but have not heard of it in the spin.

good luck with tilly and im sure you will love her all the same HUGS to tilly :)

>The spinal deformaty is nothing to do with HD it i a ressesive gene plz dont try scaring her you dont know enough to make a coment like that Triona. it is just unusuall to have it in the spine it usually is in the tail as in crak/kink tail

I think you should re-read Triona's post.  She's not scaremongering or saying that there's any link between HD and hemi-vertibrae.  She is just stating that her dog had both conditions with the result that he had to be PTS to prevent further suffering.  No inference at all that he had to be PTS because of the HV alone as far as I can see.  Or that one condition is in any way linked to the other.

No I wasn't saying that the two were linked but that our boy was unlucky enough to have both deformities, I take great interest in HD and bone deformities and was aware that the spinal problem was a ressisive problem, if you re- read I state that our boy live a happy life but only because of both problems exasperating each other was he put to sleep.

Our dog had both problems that the original poster was worried about so I have first hand experience with both and first hand knowledge as to how it effects a dogs life as well as an owners, so I believe I do know enough to make comments. I rarely comment on the boards unless I have come across the subject before or had first hand experience with something and this is one of those incidence.  

Hi All

Thank you all for your responses.

I have had a few PMs since I posted asking me to tell them who my breeder is. So far I haven't given out a name but I was wondering if people thought it was reasonable to do so?

I have only good words about Tillys breeder, she has been amazing from the first phone call all the way to our last conversation about Tillys condition. I would be more than happy to get another puppy from her in the future as she has been so supportive and really seems to want to know how Tilly was progressing even before this. She is truely what people should look for in a breeder.

Lovely to hear that about a breeder.

Id keep it to yourself as if she shows and her dog beats another, people will be bitter and bitchy and use this against her. Its common in frenchies and some breeders x-ray their dogs for the condition. Keep her lean and the Orijen food is 80 20% expensive but if thats what she needs. Not sure but hydrotherapy would be good for her, keep muscles fit without the jarring of the back onto a surface?? xx