Hello I am new to the forum just wondered if anyone had any suggestions.

I had 2 dogs, a westie who was 14 yrs old - he was sadly put down about 2 months ago, and i have a english springer spaniel (working) he is 11yrs old.
Now my springer is very jealous over me and sometimes the rest of my family but this is only in our own home. He likes his toys and they are his and only his. He does not take them off other dogs but once they leave them he will retrieve them and bring them back to where he was laying.
He is fine when on walks, keeps himself to himself and always has to carry things in his mouth. He has never had issues when on walks and i have met friends in the park etc and walked with their dogs with no issues. He also lets them come into his house as i regauarly look after a couple of friends dogs and he is fine with them.
When at home he has had a couple of fights with my westie and i have had to pull them apart and tell them both off. I researched this and was told springers can get something called "Rage". In 11yrs i can think there has only been about 3 of these incidents.
The springer is very much a loner and the westie was the ring leader and top dog. As the springer has got older he gets very nervous about silly things. For example we have a family dinner and will sit at the dining room table, he will scatch and shake at the door to the garden to be let out, when he gets let out he will go and hide in the corner of the garden in the flower bed and when called to come in will just stay there. When people come over he tends to go upstairs and only come down after a while. He doesnt like bangs and tries to dig up the carpet behind the sofa and thats where you will find him if people are in the house or nosie etc.
He has never gone for any human, and only had the incident with my westie in the house. About 4yrs ago my friend brought a lab puppy. We used to look after the puppy every now and then. One day they were all tied together when we heard a yelp and my springer had the puppy pinned to the floor and had bitten her ear. we believed this had happened as there was a tennis ball near them. He was told off and moved away from the other dogs. Since this incident we have the lab stay with us alot at home for nights at a time. They do not have any issues. The lab treats our house as her own sleeping in the other dogs beds etc. My springer does allow her to take toys off him also.

Since my westie was put to sleep about 2 months ago, my springer became very depressed it seemed. Spent most of his time upstairs and not wanting to come down. Wasnt his usual bouncy self. Didnt have much of an interest in anything, went off his food and was sick for about 4 days after the westie was put to sleep. When my friends lab came to stay, he really picked up so we thought mabye he needed another dog as the westie always took the lead.

So 2 weeks ago we brought home a little norfolk terrier puppy. He was just 8 weeks old. My spinger first of all didnt know what to do with the puppy and just ignored him. To start with we did have the lab staying with us and she used to play with him. However every time the puppy approached the spinger he would growl. Every time he was told off, and the springer would lay on his back in submission to me but he would still be watching the puppy and growling. If the puppy has a toy and walks near the spinger he growls. We have taken to telling the srpinger off or put him in another room when he does this. If the springer has a toy and he growls if the puppy is near we take the toy from the springer.
All the puppy wants to do is play with the springer but he will not allow it and growls. The springer has never been one for playing with other dogs and keeps himself to himself. It seems strange as when we are not at home and overnight the puppy goes in a crate. When you wake up or come home the springer runs straight to the crate with his tail wagging waiting for the puppy to be let out and since we have had the puppy he has really picked up and is back to his normal bouncy self. Also when the puppy wants to sleep when we are home and he is out of his crate he curls up next to the springer and the springer allows this and doesnt move away and they often sleep together.
About a week after we had the puppy, the puppy had a toy and the spinger was snarling at the puppy. Before someone could get to them the springer had the puppy on his back with the puppy screaming. The spinger was taken off, told off and shut away. The puppy wasnt hurt and carried on playing a little while later with his toys. I spoke to a vet nurse and they recommended a DAP collar. I brought this and the springer has been wearing it for 4 days now. It does not seem to of made any difference, the springer still growls at the puppy when he is near.
This evening, the puppy had a toy and the springer was laying down. The puppy was near the springer and he started to growl and snarl, with that the springer grabbed the puppy by the head and swang him across the room. The spinger was pulled off really told off and shut away. The puppy was screaming for a while and has now settled down.
I will be speaking to the vet in the morning and having the puppy checked over. I just wanted some advice if anyone had dealt with this or have any suggestions i would be grateful. I will never leave them togther unsupervised. The puppy doesnt have his last jab until next week so not really able to take him to the park or anything.
If anyone could suggest something that would be great. Many thanks

Adult dogs, particularly males, can be fearful of puppies.  It's very important never to allow them unsupervised time together and to create safe areas for the older dog to retreat to.  Baby gates are ideal and means that the dogs can see each other and interact without risk of harm

Two weeks is much too soon to expect an older dog to feel comfortable with this new puppy,  and it's worth remembering that your Norfolk Terrier will have learnt to play with it's litter mates, and toys, in a way that might be quite alarming to your gundog.  It does sound as if you are expecting too much too soon.  One of my older dogs wouldn't voluntarily engage in contact with our pup til the pup was 12 weeks old, and it was months before he was really comfortable with the puppy.

I'm very sorry you've had this latest incident with your springer and I can't believe the vet nurse suggested a DAP collar after the last time.  I also feel quite strongly that you shouldn't be telling off your older dog.  YOU are responsible for the pups safety but your older dog needs your help too and punishing by excluding isn't teaching him anything.

However, don't panic.  Get the puppy to the vet to be checked in the morning, get some baby gates and give your springer some time and space to adjust.  If toys are an issue (they certainly are for many multi-dog households) then give each dog their toys, chews etc in their crate or in separate rooms.  I hope the pup is OK but if you are worried check your vets out of hours service.

You need to look at this from the opposite direction. Your old dog doesn't want to play with a puppy -many older (or even just adult) dogs do not. He also doesn't want an intruder (=the puppy) taking what he sees as his toys.He does the right thing and TELLS the puppy so (by growling and snarling), and you then punish him for it. Every time he tries to correctly (=without being physical) tell the puppy no, leave me alone, go away, he gets told off and shut away, so all you're doing is showing him having the puppy around isn't nice, and he isn't allowed to tell him to leave well alone. Next time all choice he has left is to REALLY make things clear by actually going for the pup, as neither the pup nor you listened to his wishes. Do you see what I mean?

I have an 11 year old bitch who doesn't play, either with toys or other dogs, ever. (And she never has done.) She will tolerate any dog near her as long as that dog respects her wishes. I have watched it numerous times with young dogs and pups. The first time pups meet her, they run up to her and invite to play. They get a growl in response, saying I'm not interested. If that growl is ignored, the next time it will be a snarl. The pup may then flop on its back in front of her, she growls again saying she wants them further off, and the pup walks off. Lesson learned, this is a boring adult, best not pester her. All dogs bar one has got this and learnt to leave her alone and then all is fine. My young Cavalier however didn't get the point so he would not leave her alone even after the snarl. After pestering her many, many times eventually the result was a bark and a snap in the air. THEN he got the point.

Basically your puppy needs to learn some manners around your older dog, and your older dog would have been better off being allowed to discipline the pup without being told off as you've now confused him. I'm not quite sure what the answer is as the older dog may now feel the only course of action left is to be physical, and obviously you need to be very careful there.

As soon as I saw that your Springer was being disciplined, I was worried.  Established, older dogs are right to correct young upstarts, and it is alarming that you have put the older dog in the wrong.  He is now retaliating, and you caused his uncertainty about how to react.

Your boy should really have been allowed to handle the situation.

I agree with the others - your springer has been punished for politely (as canines go) telling this bitey little upstart to leave him alone so now is upset and confused, and feels that, as growling isn't allowed, then the message will have to be stronger.

I also have a senior dog (nearly 12) who's never played with other dogs, even the others of our own who have sadly passed on, and we introduced an 8 week puppy a week ago. Our job is to make sure that the puppy doesn't upset him too much - he tells her off when she gets too bouncy, but when she doesn't listen to him we (gently) scold the puppy and take her away from him. He's now getting a lot less stressed and even allows her to put her paws up on his face without being bothered.

My advice would be to support your springer and protect him from the puppy's excesses till they've both learned that the puppy won't be OTT with him.

My pup is 12 weeks old and I am having similar issues with my pomx. My gsd and pup have sorted thenselves out with some frightening growls well frightening to me.They now play for while until he says no more respect is sorting itself.
However not so lucky with little one. She doesnt play much with other dogs even her own size she is very selective doesnt want to be bothered by this pup who doesnt want to take no for an answer no matter how much snarling etc comes from Mia. Pup just takes it as a game. Also in Mias case being smaller and much lighter than pup she needs protecting. Sso to protect little mia I am teaching the leave command (slowly) and she has time away from the pup with us and all so access top the garden separate walks et. I would never tell Mia off its pup who needs to learn.Its not easy as Mia has her "base" in the kitchen so she can be safe from Gsd when I am not around to supervise and she is adog of routine so moving her crate is not an option neither is having pup other than the kitchen until she is housetrained. If they are together it is closely supervised then pup removed/distracted.
Dont know if I have got it right because this the first time I have had 3 dogs together, there was no problem introducing Mia to my gsdand this time stupidly I expect I thought that the pup would listen to the dogs telling her know and all would be well but no I have had to intervene to protect Mia. Hopefully given time all will settle
Dont know if this helps the op and any comments form experienced people would be gratefully recieved

The puppy was near the springer and he started to growl and snarl, with that the springer grabbed the puppy by the head and swang him across the room. The spinger was pulled off really told off and shut away. The puppy was screaming for a while and has now settled down.
I will be speaking to the vet in the morning and having the puppy checked over. I just wanted some advice if anyone had dealt with this or have any suggestions i would be grateful. I will never leave them togther unsupervised

Hi, if your springer is not the sort that chooses to play much with other dogs, having a puppy in the house is quite traumatic for him; also the pup's arrival has triggered what he probably sees as "aggressive" behaviour from his owners, to him.

My suggestion would be to use a combination of crates, childgates and a houseline/light lead for the puppy. When not able to supervise, keep them both apart. When able to supervise, encourage relaxed behaviour and get the puppy interested in playing with you, or his own toys and esp. a stuffed kong, so that he can not pester the male dog. Gradually (over weeks) you should be able to get rid of the "equipment" and the dogs should be ok, with each other.

What will happen eventually is that the puppy will learn to not pester your springer, and the springer will learn that he can enjoy being in the same room and not be told off or even scared by the puppy.

To ensure the puppy does not learn that other dogs are scarey ( I imagine being chucked across the room by the head was not hte best of experiences!) I'd advise booking onto a well run good puppy class. Some are not well run, so I'd suggest trying:

Hth and good luck :)

Lindsay
x

I too have an older dog and a puppy (8 weeks)
The older dog is teaching the pup manners as you explained and the reprimands are becoming much less severe and less often.

However, we are having problems when we play with the pup. The older dog growls (grumbles) and eventually rushes in and barks at the pup. This is not the same as the reaction when none of the family adults are involved. It looks as though she is bullying the pup when we play with him but she is much more tolerant when he plays alone or is bumbling about.

Can anyone suggest any thing we could do. (GSD adult 7yrs and GSD pup)

> However, we are having problems when we play with the pup

> Can anyone suggest any thing we could do

Don't play with the pup whilst your other dog is on the room.  It's so important to to give your older dog time to adjust and avoid any situation in which she seems uncomfortable.

If you re read the advice given in this original post you'll see that you need to create safe spaces for both dogs for a while. Baby gates are ideal :)

Thanks so much. I know its only a week but when you're tired problems seem to get way out of control. I know its very early but sometimes these things become embedded. I don't scold older dog. Strangely, if I give older dog treats and younger dog is there, she is not at all concerned if i then give a treat to the pup.  We have a third bitch (4) who is not bothered at all about the pup.

Think ofit in terms of your springer being nearly 80 years old and incomes this 2 year old who starts giving it all this play with me play with, no seriously play with me you misery. You would intervene if it was your granny and except some mutual respect.

Separate out for now and do gradual introductions with lots and lots of positivity and treats involved for tolerance and it will settle down, pup needs you and so does your older dog who obviously has possession issues but what springer doesn't to some point? They'd be rubbish gun dogs otherwise.