Hi there

I have a 8 month old labrador (entire male) and have just taken in an unwanted christmas present (same old story) from a family member, 7 month old Labradoodle.  Having never had a female I wondered how I would know when she was coming into season and what we need to do about it to prevent pups?  I don't want to get my labrador done as yet and I have heard you shouldn't have a bitch done until after their first season.

Any advice gratefully accepted.

Thanks

Nicola

Her vulva will swell and bleed (though not all bleed throughout a season).

Good luck.

First signs are likely to be peeing more, lots of small amounts.  You can use a white tissue every day in the run up to check for blood spots, sometimes the loss can be quite slight.

From that time keep her away from your male for up to 4 weeks.  It may be better to have him stay with relatives after the first week as he is likely to get distressed.  Otherwise you could put him in boarding kennels (a;ways better to board the male as you can then be sure the bitch has been properly secluded.

Provided the bitch is over a year old at the time the best time to spay is three months from the start of her season.

I have no idea what is the usual age for poodles or Labradors to have a season, in my own breed it is usually 8 to 10 months, but a litter I bred last year one of them came in almost exactly at 6 months.

With the first time you don't know when it is likely to happen as it can be from 5 months to 18 months or later,put light coloured bedding where they sleep over night and check it each morning, during the day they tend to keep themselves clean so you don't see any discharge.

I have a male who does " wee tasting " about a week before the girls come into season so from then on they get dabbed with a white tissue each morning before they have a wee to check for bleeding which happens before any significant swelling with my lot.

My girls hump each other or the boys leading up to coming into season.

I tried sending my male Rhuari to stay at my Mum's, his whining under his breath and hunger strike was more than she could stand so he arrived back after a week.

Now for the past 4yrs.the girls wear hygiene panties and when I can't physically watch them one or other is crated up off the ground away from visiting suitors. The males have vanilla extract[not essence] smeared on their noses and chests to detract from the scent the females give off[ tried other things including things meant to be used and they didn't work].

The more humans there are in the home the more chance that someone makes a mistake and allows the 2 of them to get together, I live alone so only me to blame if there was an OOPs mating.

Any neuter/spay needs to wait till the puppy has finished growing as those hormones influence more than just reproduction.

Good Luck.

Good advice (as always) from the other posters :-) but if you can't send either away for whatever reason you can always do what I am doing at the moment. Wear earplugs (definately need to reduce stress from the whining and barking ;-) ) I have 2 cages set up in my living room and one in my bedroom for night time. Alternate letting them out of the cage for an hour each, ensuring that they are never out of the cage at the same time. I take the girl to bed with me at night so I can keep an eye on her. I have found that my male is more worked up if he can't see his girlfriend. I have tried sending him away but he pines all the time and doesn't eat so loses weight far more rapidly than if I keep him at home.

Lots of vets now recommend having bitches spayed before their first season as this reduces the risk of mammary rumours later even more than after the first season. All my bitches and lots belonging to friends have been done before their first season for years now and there have been no problems with them.

Actually apart from the small risk of mammary tumours (studies that professed the risk to be 50% of which half were not benign have been proved to have been misleading based on a small sample).

Prepubertal neutering has many negatives associated with it: http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
http://www.caninesports.com/EarlySpayConsiderations.pdf
http://www.doglistener.co.uk/neutering/spaying_neutering.shtml

There are pros and cons to both early and later spaying and lots of links to both sides of the argument. Most vets will do either and having an entire male in the same house is a very good reason for spaying early.

I have a 9 year old bitch that was spayed before her first season. She never grew up and she has always been considered by other dogs to be something strange -she's not a puppy but she's not an adult either. Hence she's hated by the others and always has been -same goes for her litter brother who was castrated at the same time. Never again will I subject a dog to something like this just for convenience. I have another bitch who absolutely NEVER must be bred from. She's 2 ½ and I'm just starting to think about having her spayed. If you chose to have both dogs and bitches you work out a way how to deal with it until the time for neutering is the best for the dog or bitch.

>Lots of vets now recommend

Sadly there are plenty of situations, neutering being one, where the above statement just doesn't provide the reassurance that it should.

I have the utmost respect for my vets but it's clear that they aren't always expert , or even very experienced, in some topics.

> I have the utmost respect for my vets but it's clear that they aren't always expert , or even very experienced, in some topics.

Their area of expertise is the diagnosis and treatment of animal illness and injury.

> Their area of expertise is the diagnosis and treatment of animal illness and injury.

They are the GPs of the animal world - and their G means they cover many species in their P. I wouldn't expect my family doctor to be able to diagnose terminal cancer or advise about very specialised aspects of any disease - I would hope to be referred to an oncologist, gynaecologist or psychiatrist.

Yet vets often counsel about issues in animals that a human doctor isn't trained for, and at the same time because the training covers so many species, occasionally that training can be sketchy or out of date unless it is that particular vet's speciality interest. Not to knock vets at all, but it is night on impossible for them to be the fount of all knowledge about everything; which is why a clued-up owner or breeder is frequently better informed on a certain subject/s than the vet.

>If you chose to have both dogs and bitches you work out a way how to deal with it until the time for neutering is the best for the dog or bitch.

I am in 100% agreement with this statement.  I have both sexes, both entire and neutered.  Until I decide that the time is right for either spaying, or castration, it is up to me to manage the situation.

Thanks to everyone for your advice.  I think they will have to be separated when it does happen - hopefully using these tips I will know before he does!

He whines a LOT anyway so I don't think he would be a welcome visitor for any of my family and he gets up very early to start the whinning! 

I would prefer not to get either of them done at this stage as I made a mistake with an old dog getting him castrated early and he had a lot of nervous aggression which I think stemmed from not allowing him to grow up first.

Thanks again!