Hiya, my miniature poodle has been suffering for a while with mange, but its confined to around his eyes.  The vet has prescribed advocate every 2 weeks, the mange starts to clear up but then starts to return.  My dog looks like he's got glasses on and I feel sorry for him as it is itchy for him.  This has been going on since last November after a nasty ear infection that took a while to clear up.

I bought neem shampoo but it wasn't the miraculous product I was hoping for so I bought some aromesse cream but I can't use it by his eyes as I'm sure it would sting his eyes.

Does anyone have any suggestions please for me to rid him of this pesky mite?  He's due his annual vaccination next month and I'm really worried in case it compromises his immunity and could lead to further problems.

He's just turned 1 in April.

Hiya

Sounds like localised, juvenile demodex - this happens when the immune system is still immature and can't cope with the demodex mites which are always present in every single dog! With localised juvenile demodex, it often resolves itself - yours is localised to one area plus you are using Advocate which helps. Often, it will seem to clear, then come back, but as soon as the immune system is strong enough, it should hold it at bay. If you start to notice more patches coming, you might have to ask the vet for the special wash. My 1 year old boy has just had the all clear from demodex after 12 weeks of baths - Aludex prescribed from the vet. I'm keeping a close eye on him to make sure it doesn't come back/take a firm hold again and hoping it was indeed juvenile and not because his immune system is compromised :-( I use Advocate monthly too! As demodex is an immune system problem, I wouldn't have the booster just yet. HTH

Just read your post again - demodex doesn't usually itch - the secondary infection if present, causes it to itch! Has the vet taken a scrape and confirmed demodex? although it often doesn't show on the slide :(

I was going to say if the dog is itchy then the vet should be able to give you something to deal with that as demodex in its self is not itchy but the secondary infection. Treatment can be long but often once it has cleared it will not return at least not till the dog reaches a good old age although spaying or castrating does seem to cause it to recur.

I agree Nova - the vet can prescribe something for the itch from the secondary infection. We had Cortavance as Taffy had a very itchy lump on his head which he couldn't reach, so scratched his neck quite badly!

I'm really worried about the booster because he is booked into kennels on the 27th June for a week, we're off to Majorca, this holiday was booked long before the problem started with the mange.

Yes, he's had a skin scrape and a mite was found, in fact, the vet showed me it under the microscope.

I think the itch could be related to food as when he's had treats, especially fish 4 dogs, he scratched himself silly.

I'm trying loads of foods and I think Natures Harvest is proving to be a winner, the itching is subsiding.  He has had antibiotics in the past for infection as he nicked his skin in one place with his nails and it cleared up a treat.  However, this was close to the fold in his lips,  you know where the skin of his lips meet each other on the side of his face.  He has slight balding here too!

its a bugger of a thing!

I too saw the slide, it looked like a little crocodile! lol. Taffy's chin went bald, one cheek, a spot between his eyes and lots of small patches on his back and sides. It took ages for his fur to grow back.

Speak to the vet about the booster. Is there no one who can look after him while you're away? Must admit I would be a bit worried about giving the booster - his immune system is busy with the demodex so giving the booster will make his system work even harder - in fact it might concentrate on the booster and allow the demodex to take control :-(

See what the vet thinks though, it might be ok. xxx

I sympathise with you. One of my dogs had what looked like mange on her face, vet took a scraping but couldn't see anything. Because she always dunks her whole head in the water bucket I thought it was like a wet excema to start with, and she's always got her head down any hole she can find. She'd been treated with Advocate 10 days before and the vet put Stronghold on her at the surgery. He also gave me Malaseb shampoo to wash her face with. Poor girl also looks like she's wearing glasses.

thanks for your advice, can I ask another question?  Will this eventually go?  He's such a lovely dog to look at but this baldness is a little bizarre to say the least x

The hair will grow back when the episode ends but the mite is always present in all dogs and when your dogs immune system is reduced by another cause, such as an illness or accident, it may well recur and often when a dog has had it as a puppy it will recur if the dog is neutered or when it reaches old age but it may well be in a different place on the body.

This mite is normal in all dogs and is past to pups when they suckle which is why in pups it is usual on the face and/or front feet - it is normally kept in check by the dogs own immune system so it does not cause any problems but in some dogs the immune system is not strong enough to deal with this and any other problem they may have at the same time so the mite will/may cause a problem every time a vulnerable dogs immunity is challenged in some other way. Because of this tendency to a reduced immune system they should not be used in a breeding program.

Thanks for the info, how can I strengthen his immune system from the inside?  He's fed on nature's harvest wet food as he won't eat dry.

Well there are those who think you can but to be honest I am not sure it is possible to improve the tendency for the dogs immune system to dip but I think all you can do is help your dog live a happy stress free live.

I hadn't thought of it as stress related before, he doesn't show signs of SA.

Mental stress can trigger but it is more likely to be physical ones like excessive heat, an infection or illness or an op or being neutered.

or changing homes, food, getting vaccinated etc, all this happens before the immune system has had a chance to mature, which is why puppies that get mild demodex often grow out of it by the time their immune systems mature (though the secondary issues caused by scratching etc and coat regrowth may take a while to clear up).

In young bitches a first season can trigger it.

Well I must admit I've never heard of it before now, how common is it?

Very, all dogs carry the mite but only some develop hair loss which is cause by the mite increasing in number because the dogs immunity is not dealing with them and they get the upper hand.

Apart from Advocate, is there any other way to kill the mite off?

You have to get the lotion from the vet - Aludex or the like  x

If the lotion doesn't resolve the mange, you go on to ivermectin dips - off licence as it isn't licensed for mange - still prescribed by the vet though. With ivermectin sensitive breeds, I'm not sure what the next step would be .....

Benzyl benzoate.

Apparently, I can't use the aludex or dips as its around his eye area which is a big no no for both medication.

What is benzyl benzoate?

Think you can use Ivermectin on Poodles why not ask your vet. Not sure if benzyl benzoate works on Demodex and I think it also needs to be applied to the effected areas.

I understand that one of the spot ons works for demodex, but can't remember it's name.  Advocate http://www.animalhealth.bayerhealthcare.com/4882.0.html

If your vet hasn't suggested anything else, Think you may have to just stick with the 2 weekly Advocate....unless someone on here can come up with something else! :-D

I would think that you would have to be careful with anything topical, you put near the eyes unless it is specifically for there. Taff did have a bit of balding below his eyes...we used cotton wool balls dipped in the diluted Aludex, squeezed out the liquid til it was almost dry and just dabbed carefully holding his eye shut....we were EXTREMELY careful! His bath times were always a 2 person job!!!

If all you can use is the Advocate, it just means it will take longer to clear. It may even be clear already, just that the hair hasn't grown back yet. x

Hi
I've been using the twice weekly advocate since November!!  It works for about 13 days or so then you can see the balding coming back and it does so with a vengeance.  That's why I came here to see if you experts could come up with something else for me.  Not only do I not like putting chemicals on him every 2 weeks but it is costing me £25 a pack which lasts for 6 weeks.  Perhaps I should be looking to claim off the insurance but I'm not sure if flea/mite treatment comes under the policy.

Unless his immune system kicks in to working properly the problem will not go away.

Might be worth looking at immune boosting dietary supplements like echinacea etc.

The advocate can only work on killing the excessive number of mites, not sort out the reason for them proliferating which is his immature/faulty immune system.

Am wondering if he has had anything else happen that may have caused a problem with his immune system apart from the ear infection that may also have been a reaction to an immunity problem. Has your vet done a full bloods and urine test to check there is nothing obvious going on. Was there a problem with him having his initial injections or has he had to have a GA for any reason. I know it is inconvenient but I would not give a full booster until this bout of mange has cleared and he has had a good check up.

Apparently, I can't use the aludex or dips as its around his eye area which is a big no no for both medication.

I had to use the Aludex baths on my very small 8 week terrier pup every week. She too had it round her eyes as well as areas over her body, so we soaked her body each time with a sponge ( used just for this job )by standing her in a washing up bowl, so only using half the bottle each time, and then very gently wiped round her eyes with cotton wool dipped in Aludex and then squeezed out so there wouldn't be any drips. It took around 6 weeks to get her clear and it has never come back.
The Demodex was caused by her being very ill at 6 weeks old and her immune system couldn't cope.
just added - Her illness was Parvo so she had no choice but to have the vaccinations as well as many other medications at the same time as the Aludex, thank goodness she is now a very healthy 18 month old.

Perhaps when I return to my vet I should ask about Aludex baths, is it safe to use around the mouth area?

Yes, but don't get it inside the mouth. Taffy had it all around one side of his face/mouth, chin, cheeks etc. We put a cone on him after the baths, until he was dry, so he couldn't lick. You have to let the stuff dry naturally, no towelling, no heat. You mix it 1ml Aludex to 100ml water - so we used 5ml to 500 ml mixed in a jug. We dipped his feet in  first, then used cotton wool balls squeezed out for his face, then a bath sponge to apply the rest on his body.

aww thanks that makes me feel better, I'm going to go back to my vet and ask him for some aludex :)

How long will I need to use it and how many times a day/week?

You use it once a week for at least 8 weeks and/or until you get 2 clear skin scrapes from a place that was scraped and had mites showing on the slide. The amount you use depends on the size of the dog - all of the dog has to be wetted thoroughly but always at a ratio of 1ml to 100 ml to begin with. Sometimes, if the mite is proving difficult, a stronger mix is advised - the vet will advise you - before trying the ivermectin dip! It is very potent stuff - it has to be to penetrate the hair shaft to reach the mite in the follicle - you must wear gloves to apply it.

What about thornit?  I know its supposed to work on ear mites, would it work on the mange mite?

Just thought I'd update the thread... He's got to have Advocate once a week for 3 weeks to see if it'll work.  If not, then it is onto Ivermectin oral medicine for him.  I've no idea what to expect from using this drug, I just hope there are no nasty side effects, he looks rather weird at time as if he's wearing glasses!

Will keep you informed in case this information is useful to anyone else.

I have used Ivermectin and it cured the problem with no side effects but it must not be given to Collies or any dog with Collie in it.

Hi, I am new to this forum but just wanted to post to say our 10 year old GSP bitch developed demodectic mange in one spot on her head last year (it was a month after our 14yo dog had died and she was missing him terribly). We tried Advocate which didn't help and then the vet said her practice had had good results with Promeris Duo though it wasn't marketed as a mange solution and suggested we try it which we did and it cleared up very quickly. i'm not sure but I think it might be marketed as a demodectic mange solution now and could be worth a try as an alternative to Advocate> Hope this helps! As for the hair loss, once the mange had gone a breeder friend recommended some horse ointment - dark brown gloopy stuff - which seemed to encourage the hair to grow back quickly. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of it but will post it if I find it!

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Pfizer_Limited/ProMeris_Duo_Spot-On_Solution_for_Dogs/-44337.html

Would it be camrosa?   http://www.camrosa.co.uk/

Have just checked and it is Cornucrescine ointment, which I think is similar to Camrosa.

Advocate didn't work for one of my dogs who had bad demodex we then tried Ivermectin orally daily and it worked a treat, no side effects either... it seemed to take effect almost overnight, redness went skin returned to soft and grey ( black dog ) and hair grew back faster than i expected..! so glad we tried it...