Went on one of my normal walks yesterday. I have Zak (GSD) who needs his space with approaching dogs, but is well behaved, he knows who is in charge. Stanley (whippet) is perfectly well behaved around other dogs. I nearly finish my walk & am about to cross a road. I stopped, as a lady was walking down the road with 2 Miniature Schnauzers. I have seen her before from a distance, they do play up a bit, but nothing out of the ordinary. She turned around, as if to hurry back the way she had come. I shouted to her that I would stay where I was, Zak was in a sit, no noise or fuss from either of mine. She shouts to me ' will you please go & hide with your dogs'?? I politely replied that no way was I going to hide & that I was staying where I was. She was clearly terrified, she told me, not of my dogs, but of her own 2, as she knew they would 'kick off'. I told her to carry on walking & tell her dogs to heel & leave. To be honest her dogs weren't really that bad, but clearly the owner was terrified of passing other dogs. I couldn't beleive what she had asked me to do, she really took the biscuit!

That's daft!
One of mine barks at other dogs until he gets to play with them but I would never ask another dog owner to hide! :O

That's daft!
One of mine barks at other dogs until he gets to play with them but I would never ask another dog owner to hide! :O

I wouldn't bother asking another owner to hide, for one thing its not the other persons problem and for another as you have perfectly demonstrated, most people just don't get why it is necessary or useful.

If you have dog reactive dogs especially if you have two (and I would not advise anyone to attempt to fix this problem with two dogs at the same time!) then avoiding passing other dogs, by taking evasive action, hiding, going the other way is a VERY VERY useful tactic.

Forcing the issue and insisting they go past and telling them to 'leave' and getting on with it can and very often DOES make the problem much much worse. You cannot cure on lead reactive behaviour merely by taking charge and insisting the dogs get on with it in most cases, especially where there is two of them - at best you might get them to suppress their behaviour because they are intimidated by you but it wont solve the problem in the long run.

I couldn't beleive what she had asked me to do, she really took the biscuit!

:-D :-D If someone asked me to hide with my dogs I'd probably stand there with my mouth open too shocked to think of what to say. :-D I've never heard of that one before, I know that happens a lot with children today parents passing the buck to have someone else sort out behaviour problems, but gosh it's happening in dog owners too.............oh boy!

But would it have really been so hard to step out of sight and politely advise her that it would be better in future if she took evasive action herself when she saw someone coming?

I realise it isnt anyone elses job to train other peoples dogs but you could CLEARLY see she was struggling and worried - exactly what harm would it have done and how much effort, to cross the street or step out of sight?

Or do we all just think 'I know better than you and I won't make any effort to help someone who is struggling, so there'.

I find this quite sad really - clearly shes struggling and doesnt quite know waht to do, she is ATTEMPTING to do something and yet a fellow dog lover cant be bothered to be a little gracious?

I can see what you are saying theemx,

I think it may gage a different reaction if she had two large breed dogs dragging her and going off at other dogs, and she was having trouble holding them, tbh I think we wouldn't have a problem with hiding then :-) but they were miniature schnauzers, I'm sorry but if she is panicking over two of this breed barking a bit I would find the whole thing extraordinary too, there is a difference between helping out a fellow dog walker having trouble and not coping, or if she were an old lady with arthritis or something I think Beardy would have helped, but two mini schnauzers the dogs didn't even appear to have been too much of a problem walking passed, the owner seems to have the problem.

> I couldn't beleive what she had asked me to do, she really took the biscuit!

Something similar happened to me only 2 days ago, but it was the other dog owner that offered to hide thier dog *blush*

Bust & I were just walking up our road, coming home from a walk. I spotted a collie, on-lead with it's owner, stood on an open-planned front lawn. It was to the right of me and Buster was on my left, getting some last minute sniffing time in as we passed the hedge row on his left. Buster never noticed the dog atall untill, just after we had passed it it flew at Buster It was going nuts, growling, barking, lunging, snarling, it really did not like the look of Buster, who would not have even noticed it if it hadn't been making so much fuss  .........

Anyway , Buster found this curious and sat down, in a very sloppy, slouchy sit, slumped over on one butt-cheek, watching the dog with a semi-interested expression on his face like he couldn't understand what the problem was, but was willing to wait & see.
I've posted before about not being able to move Buster if he wants to watch a dog and this was one of those times.... I couldn't shift him *blush* He was starting to lay down (that means he's planning on staying in that spot to spectate in comfort ) The collie was getting more & more wound up and I just could not get Buster to move. The people with the dog offered to take it indoors so I could move Buster, they thought he was a 'gentle giant' for his lack of negetive reaction to the out-busrt from thier dog, but I was mortified for not being able to shift him :( :(

Well said theemx.  At the very least would it have been so hard to politely suggest she sees a behaviourist?

Just because they are little dogs doesn't make it any less of a valid problem - they must be scared to be reacting like that, size is irrelevant when fear is involved IMO.

Telling them 'heel' and 'leave' - unless she has already put a lot of work into training those behaviours in a calm way - will do either nothing, or make things worse because it'll add to the stress these little dogs are already under.

In situations like that I prefer to try and help - saying something like 'have you tried this?  Worked for me...' It seems to get across better without putting people's backs up.

But they weren't that bad, it was the owner who had the problem. I had given her ample passing space, there was a main road, a wide grass verge & a pavement. If I see her again, I will suggest a behavourist, she needs one, to show her how to behave. The 'heel & leave' works very well with my dogs. I don't think that they were that scared, they just have never been shown how to behave.

Gives you pause for thought, really, about how many behavioural issues are caused by nervous and/or non-competent owners...

I have never asked anyone to hide, but with a fearful dog on lead have always ensured that I give others enough distance so we can keep moving without stress. Having said that depending on the critical distance and the amount of interest shown by the other dog, a wide grass verge & a pavement isn't always enough. It dosen't take much to help another owner, but time & time again can be giving others distance and still they allow their dog to walk towards us, crossing the road to join us to following us up driveways. Not until you walk with a fearful dog that perhaps you realise that simple things can make all the difference to others. 

They may not have been that bad to you, from y our perspective and with your experience, but people do feel well out of their depth and also MORTIFIED when their dogs lunge and bark on the ends of the leads, out of fear/reactivity.

I am not phased sat between a pair of warring deerhound youngsters (friendly but doing one anothers heads in, at a show and starting to get narky) and could guage easily enough whether they needed a bit of 'ill bang your heads together pack it in!' type handling or one removing from sight or the better one (mine haha!) being told to lie down....

But someone ELSE might have been utterly terrified - its all about your comfort zone and your experience and we are not all born with the same ability to cope. So you can happily handle your Beardies and would feel comfy with a pair of mini schnauzers - would you feel happy with a pair of 32" deerhound thugs? Would it be kind of me to perhaps belittle you if you did not, purely because I am?

It is people like this person who cant cope and arent sure what to do who sadly do end up going down the route of aversives, unpleasant methods and giving up their dogs because they dont know what else to do.

One thing owning a fearful dog has taught me and I'm thankful for it, is to watch other dogs and their owners. I'm sure I often get it wrong, but from their behaviour together, body language and awareness towards others I attempt to gauge how they will deal with their dog as we pass. As I said often get it wrong, but if I see some has a problem will move futher away or try to assist in other ways such as putting my dog on lead if theirs is. There is a bigger picture out there than just your/my dog and a little consideration for others dosen't cost much.

My board name is nothing to do with Beardies, sorry if I mislead you. I have a large GSD, who was a rescue & I have spent 7 yrs training him & it is ongoing. He spent 7 months of his life living in a squalid pen with 2 male staffies for company. I have had to spend a lot of time & effort getting him to where he is now. I would not dream of belittling anyone, believe me. The lady in question clearly spends her time avoiding all dogs at any cost, yes I will try & offer her some friendly advice if I get the chance. I deliberately stayed where I was when I saw that she was struggling, on the other side of the road, against a hedge with my GSD sat calmly in between me & the hedge. I have attended GSD training class for years & the way we are taught to walk past other dogs, (all class dogs are in the sit, while 1 dog at a time is weaved inbetween) is to give the command, heel & leave, encouraging them along with something tasty. I was trying to make the point  when I had the encounter that, (as many dog owners know) it's not the dog, it's the handler who is the problem!

Sorry my mistake for assuming there!

Sometimes it is indeed the handler and I suspect you are right in this case, however it is not as simple as saying its ALWAYS the owner/handler, as thats just not true and it over simplifies the matter a lot.

I work on a daily basis explaining to people, often people who have taken on rescue dogs and found themselves out of their depth, how to handle such issues and for some of them, approaching a dog, regardless of whether it is sat quietly and under control or not, is too much to ask at that stage.

That is ignoring the many times when an owner will say 'oh its ok, come on past, hes fine' and nothing could be further from the truth!

If you have a dog who is fear reactive then forcing them to pass other dogs can be (often is!) the very WORST thing you can do, no matter how well behaved that dog is, you wont remove fear by forcing the issue.

> . I have attended GSD training class for years & the way we are taught to walk past other dogs, (all class dogs are in the sit, while 1 dog at a time is weaved inbetween)

Take a fearful dog to class and do this exercise most weeks, no problem at all. Do believe a dog can tell the difference between classes where he can relax and enjoy and the not knowing when meeting others when out for a walk.

> Take a fearful dog to class and do this exercise most weeks, no problem at all. Do believe a dog can tell the difference between classes where he can relax and enjoy and the not knowing when meeting others when out for a walk.

They most certainly can.  I have used classes as a booster for Soli in the past, and doing my behaviour course at college was a godsend for her because she knew the dogs in both situations would be on lead and under control at all times.  She could be inches away from another dog and do all the exercises calmly and happily.

Out on a walk, back at the time I was doing both those things, she would react to nearly every dog we came across from up to 20 feet away if she got a chance, because they were unpredictable to her.

> They most certainly can. 

Great to know we are not alone!