Hello there,

I've been visiting this forum as a guest for quite some time before my new pup arrives (on Monday)!
I am well aware of the need to socialise a pup, had practice rearing other pups through to adults and am a converted 'socialiser'.
My experience has been mainly with GSD pups who are now young adults; My pup is a 10 week old Border Collie.
I'm really looking forward to having her and have my places ready to take her, puppy class too etc.

I read a topic about the oldest time to pick up a pup regarding socialising and saw there are several common associations with different breed types, ie BC's that are snappy...
I wondered what peoples views are on this? Do you believe there are definate stereotypes regarding a breed of dog?
And should I be looking out for anything with my BC pup that I perhaps wouldn't with another breed?

All advice is greatly appreciated, thanks!

P.s Our puppa will be named Pippa - hence my new login name :)

With my breed (Japanese spitz) they have to be out and about as young as possible as otherwise they can be very nervous of people so it's a must to get them around as many different people as possible, being charry with strangers is in the breed standard but if not socialised they are far worse than that.

Really do think this is in the hands of the breeder, if good they will treat any pups left with them after 8 weeks as they would their own and make sure they are introduced to new things every day both domestic and things like cars and car noise. Pups that are born in a kennel and never meet the outside world until they hit what used to be known as the fear period may well have a permanent problem.

Some of the tiny toys are not re-homed until they are older and I am sure different treatment is used.

Some breeds are more laid back than others and I think it is fair to say the BC is not one of your laid back breeds but providing their drive and energy are put to good use I do not think their temperament is unusual as far as snapping is concerned although a show bred pup will be less high maintenance than a farm bred one.

I plan to introduce her to agility when she is of age for stimulation and pleasure etc.
She is not from farm parents, I intentionally didn't look for one of farm parents for the reason you have stated, Nova, in agreement.

I do have my lists of things to introduce her to, to make sure I don't miss anything out but had plenty of experience there so looking forward to it.
I think it's interesting how much speculation there is out there and as Pippa will be my first BC, I am interested to know other peoples opinions and experiences.

Thanks for contributing :)

I think that BCs can have a tendency to behaviours not found in all breeds because of the strong working characteristics that most of them still carry.
If it is not controlled, they can have a great urge to chase vehicles and bikes. They can also nip at the heels, especially of smallish children. These behaviours can be stopped and controlled as long as you are aware of them and watching for them to possibly start. Distraction works much better if started before they becomes an ingrained habit.
I have a bitch who spends hours trying to hypnotise the (totally unconcerned) cat. Any amount of distraction will only work with her for a short time before she finds a way to stare at him again.

Haha poor cat! Good job s/he is unconcerned, think it'd be a bit unnerving if you had beady eyes staring at you all the time!
I don't have a cat so will be calling on everyone I know who does have one too...

I will watch out for ankle nipping and chasing, the latter I hope to conquer pretty quickly with exposure. Will definately keep my eyes open for the nipping though.

Thanks Sassinak!

As you are hoping to do agility with your dog in the future you may well need to put his name down for a place as soon as you get him - a lot of clubs have really long waiting lists. I was on the waiting list for nearly two years at one of the clubs I now attend.

Most of the agility people I know take their pups along to training night and sit with them watching for a while to get the pups used to the excitement of other dogs racing around in front of them. It does seem to help you to have a calmer dog when waiting for your run when they are old enough to train/compete and they get to meet a lot of dogs - but do make sure that the ones you introduce your pup to are happy to say hello - a lot of dogs get quite hyper at agility so you need to find some of the calmer ones at first to give your pup some good experiences.

Ah I wasn't aware the waiting lists were so long!
I am moving soon, quite a way so will wait until we do move. Then I'll get right onto it!
I will definately ensure she gets in as soon as possible, it will be my first time doing agility so we can watch and learn together until she is grown up.

Thanks for your advice Harley!

I would recommend that you do visit a club - even if it's not one that you are going to train at due to your move - and see what goes on. I didn't start agility with my older dog until he was three and a half but if I had a new puppy there are some every day obedience commands that I wouldn't use with a new dog. For instance most people use a "weave" command when they want their dog to go through the weave poles. When he was a puppy I taught my dog a "leave it" command  for when I wanted him to ignore something - but starting agility and using the word weave really confused him - he kept coming out of the poles -thinking I was giving a Leave command so I had to change the weave command to "poles" which works well but isn't the first thing that comes into my head whilst running full pelt round a course :-)

There are lots of things you can teach your puppy way before it ever starts agility training that will make life much easier when it is old enough to start training properly - things such as a left and right command and a very solid wait command will make a huge difference :-)

Wow, I never even thought about that... weave/leave... you can see why it's confusing for them.

I have learnt some competitive obedience before, started teaching the young GSD pups the start of some competitive obedience now they are of age (they're 6 months old now and not mine, I'm doing it for a friend who is busy with her Guide Dogs during the day, I've had all the fun parts of them since they were 8 weeks old, haha!) so I'm hoping that it will stand me in good stead for the future.

I will do then, I live in Nottingham at the moment and move at the end of June so I'll start looking for this area. Thanks for the heads up, it really is appreciated!

One thing I've seen and heard of in a lot of collies is noise sensitivity - I'm working with a lab/collie at the moment as well who is VERY noise sensitive (to the point that I can't use anything vaguely clicker-like with him, and the telephone sends him crazy).

So it would be worth thinking about that as well - making sure pup is used to various noises (maybe a sound CD would be worth a look at, just on in the background or something similar), traffic, kids screaming, alarms, phones etc.

I will definately invest in a sound cd, I believe they are a good idea for kids and animals alike.
I've already sorted a noisey babble ball thing with different animal noises so will extend to a sound cd.

Thankyou very much, this is just what I am looking for :)

Ah, the babble ball! Mine go crazy for it - they can only play for 10 mins before I take it away - they get far too excited with it! :-D

I would recommend you take your pup to puppy socialisation classes as soon as he has had his jabs.  They normally last about 6 weeks, but many won't accept pups older than 16 wks so you need to check into it.  During these classes basic obedience is taught and a 'noise' CD is usually played as well to familiarise the pups.  Normally you can follow on from these classes to further obedience training. 

Coppinger has done some research on the age certain breeds are best socialised from, going by when the initial fear period sets in, I had it written down somewhere in my seminar notes, I'll try and find it ( but don't hold your breath I may have thrown them out ) what I do remember is that guarding breeds tended to have their fear period earlier than others, not sure about BC's.

As far as I am aware so far, BC's socialisation is best to do as early as possible because of said fear responses - fortunately I am friends with our potential pup class runner - I've been looking after her shepherd litter while she's been working. She's happy for me to start to bring her to her classes as soon as I have her, as we have been doing with her shepherd pups for 4 months now (the three she has left, BIG litter). They're coming along really well.
It's fab as it means she'll be able to socialise with all ages and types of dogs as well as pups.

Thankyou for all your help :)

And thankyou, Celli, if you do find that then it'll be interesting to read!

aw  its a pity youre moving from notts as my trainer will be starting agility classes soon,i hope to go with mine.I wish you joy with your little pup,treasure her while shes small,it doesnt last long!One things for sure,you will have a lot of fun,best wishes,pam.

Thanks Pam!
I don't move until the end of June so if she starts before then I will come down and have a look, see what is involved, every little helps!
She's gorgeous, picking her up tomorrow, getting far too excited - Must. Appear. Calm...

no,you enjoy every minute!theres nothing like a collie pup is there,but then im biased!Let us know how you go on with her,im jealous-and mines only 5months!
Its not likely Polly will be up and running by then,but if she does get herself in gear,will let you know!

I feel like I'm 'nesting' as some say... .
It's all part of the fun I guess and the house is looking impeccable as a consequence!
I want to make sure we are prepared as possible...

I will, I don't know if you can post pictures on the forum?
And brilliant, thanks very much!
I do plan on taking her to Newark Show at the bank hol weekend, should be good all round to see what goes on. :)

The pastoral breeds are really my first love, so I envy you your new family member.  :-)

I know Border Collies are not for the average pet owner, and I have heard people say they don't like them because they bite. 

Any BC from decent lines will have strong working traits.  Air snapping is one of them.  My current boy was too close on several occasions when he was a little 'un.  I have the marks to prove it.  But it's a trait I was already aware of, and worked on from day one.  He's a boy that wants to please so much, that I have to be careful - if he thinks he's got it wrong, he's distressed.  So I never cuss him for unwanted behaviour, he is far too sensitive.

Because he is so intelligent, a 3 hour walk does nothing for his needs.  So few folk take on board that it's a breed that needs brain exercise.  While you are waiting for your girl to be mature enough for agility, you will be able to start her on finding things.  They love to search and find.  I now have to make things more and more difficult for him.  They are clever dogs!  :-)

Enjoy your girl.

People have said I'm mad for getting a BC - I laugh casually as I believe they think this as they wouldn't bother putting the effort in. Their loss in my opinion!

Air snapping, wasn't aware of that. When you said Jean that you worked on it from day one, what did you do?
I am a firm believer of positive reinforcement and will be using it through and through with our little 'en.

I'm looking forward to teaching her and watching her grow, trying new things with her; I've never done agility before so should be fab!
I will be constantly on the look out for more motivating and stimulating tasks for her, especially in her early and teen months, finding things is definately a good idea...! Teaching commands, some competitive obedience in the future etc.

Ooooo I'm so excited!
And thank you!

> Because he is so intelligent, a 3 hour walk does nothing for his needs.

I think this is something many people (Joe Public) don't understand when they take on a BC. Yes they will do 3hrs exercise every day (or 4 or 5) then they will lay down for an hour totally cream crackered, then jump up & be ready for more. Ends up with a fit but exhausted owner and an even fitter dog which then expects 3 hrs daily running!

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">I believe they think this as they wouldn't bother putting the effort in

Such an important point.  I won't go into the people at work who will come and tell me about their relatives "badly behaved" BC's.  They think I can tell them the magic solution to solve their problems with no effort on their part.  I will stop there, or I will get cross!!!!

My boy would "herd" me, snapping as if he was moving sheep, from quite early on.  (By the way, he was the same age as your girl when he came to me, but, like you, I didn't think the magic fairy would sort things for me.)  :-)

He would herd me down the garden when I was going to the incinerator, or washing line.  When he did nip it hurt, but if a dog is actually going for you, it doesn't just nip and leave.  And he was just "moving me on" not actually trying to get hold of me.  I ended up finding a wide nylon lead, which I folded a few times, and left by the back door, ready to pick up on my way out.  It was there, ready to put in his mouth as he lunged.  It was repetitive and I would even stop to refold the lead every time I opened the back door.  I just would not go out of the back door without picking it up.

He obviously interpreted things in his own way, as he soon picked it up ready to put in my hand as we walked out the back door!  :-)  I am sure more experienced people than I will give you much better advice, this is just how I handled my current boy.  He is a prick eared, pale eyed, red and white, and he is the most beautiful boy.  More than that - he thinks I'm perfect, so I don't need a second opinion!

Edited to add - and if you are ready to expand their minds and work on brain games, they will be utterly devoted to you.  :-)

OK, I may be disagreeing with some of what's come up on your replies, but what the heck :-)

I have BCs, I've always had BCs, if I'm honest I think I will only ever have BCs. I do not believe that the rearing of a BC pup is any different to the rearing of any other breed. If you have chosen a good breeder who has bred from dogs of excellent temperament and health then they should have done the majority of the hard work for you to give you a really, solid grounding to enjoy your puppy. If you are getting your pup from someone who hasn't put much thought into socialisation, noise desensitisation, manners teaching (people and dogs) and a whole heap of other things, then you may have issues ... but then I would expect that to apply for any breeds too.

If collies nip heels as an adult it's 'cause they've been allowed to do so as youngsters. Unless BCs are being particularly bred to work cattle, they're not actually bred to have 'heel nipping' in-built into them, in fact this is a most undesirable trait if a dog is being worked with sheep. Collies 'chase' things as adults because they've not been stopped doing so as pups, if a pup shows an inkling of doing so then you nip it in the bud immediately (which means you also need to think about whether you play chase games). Collies do not need tons of exercise, what they do need is mental stimulation. Collies have been bred for centuries for stamina and endurance, so if you walk a collie for 3 hours a day you not only have a very fit owner, as someone has mentioned, you also have a very fit collie ... if that collie is unstimulated otherwise, then that's where trouble starts. A collie will always be able to out do you as a mere human in terms of endurance marathons!! So, sensible walks, same as any other breed, unless of course you want to do long walks (mine are quite used to 20 mile mountain days), but give them something to do with their brain as well.

Bear in mind though, a collie, as per any other breed, puppy should not be over exercised. Growth plates are closing by about 14 months - the 5 minute rule still applies whether it's a collie pup or a GSD pup. Nor should the be allowed to do too much jumping (good reason why agility clubs (good ones) do not allow pups to start training over obstacles until 12 months - there are many things you can do in preparation before that time though, if this is something you're planning to do).

If you are going to do agility, you will see many hyper and over excited collies ... this really isn't the norm. Honestly, collies are not hyper and over excited. Just take a look at the owners of these collies ... these dogs tend to be with people who for some reason seem to think that they need to 'wind' their collie up, a bit like a clockwork toy, and then set it off for work. This really isn't 'normal'. On the opposite side of things, take a look at a sheepdog trials handler approaching the post to start work ... the last thing they want is a 'wound' up collie. Wound up collies are not focusing on your and they are not paying attention. Collies do not need to be wound up to work, some breeds do however, but you never need to wind a collie up (a few individuals excepted!) ... they have the ability to instantly switch on to work, and then equally able to switch off. You'll soon see what to do.

You need a few catnip toys, train her to be a drugs detection dog ... mine all play this game and they love it - in the house, hide the catnip where she can easily find it and making it progressively harder, a brilliant game to play with young pups.

What you are getting with a BC is the cleverest dog around. It will watch you, it will know you inside out, it will know what you are going to do even before you think you know what you are going to do and as such may well run rings around you!!

Because of this intelligence they are the most amazing dogs to live with. They do not have to be kept busy 24 hours a day. If you look at the working colllies they may have 3-4 hours, or more, of sheep gathering (I live where there are mountains, so hill gathers are long days), but they may not have any work for the rest of the week. What do they do? They chill.

I have 5 BCs, if I'm not doing anything, they don't either, they just chill and relax. However, they're up for anything when it's time to do something, whether obedience training, agility or working sheep ... or even just a nice walk and ... a sloppy cuddle up on the sofa - all of us :-o

If the breeder hasn't played a noise desensitisation CD to your pup, then I would recommend that you do it (the one sold by Company of Animals is the one I use), but then I'd recommend that to any breed of dog, not just BCs. I've successfully done this with a pup I got at 10 weeks who is now a search and rescue dog (they cannot afford to be bothered by any noises). You just need to do it every day, a few times a day and not rush it ...

Just look on getting your new pup as a new puppy, not a BC puppy with specific issues before you've even got her home. If it starts doing things you don't want it to do as an adult, then now is the easiest time to stop it. If you have problems or concerns, contact your breeder, if they're any good they'll be very willing to help to ensure that you have a fabulous and sound dog. Enjoy your puppy, you are about to get the best companion you could ever wish for :-)

Excellant Post Trailist. :-D

Awww thank you, said from the heart I'm afraid ... you know a thing or two about BCs then too?!! ;-)

As a BC owner I do not agree our Jake (he's 4) has never snapped in his life. He is gentle obidiant and an absolute softie with little kids, he goes into soppy mood with anyone under 3 feet tall.

We do have to keep him occupied but thats also the same with our Cocker boy, so no BC's are gentle, intelligant and a real pleasure in my experiance.

Oh and the cocker doesnt get all excited and wee all over the place as I was warned!!

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">I've already sorted a noisey babble ball thing with different animal noises

My Border Collie loves his, and the neighbours think I've got a talking dalek in the garden.  He carries it round with him.

What area are you moving to as some people on here may live and do agility in that area and can start to put you in touch with different clubs now for you to make contact with. Just a thought.

> Wound up collies are not focusing on your and they are not paying attention. Collies do not need to be wound up to work, some breeds do however, but you never need to wind a collie up (a few individuals excepted!) ... they have the ability to instantly switch on to work, and then equally able to switch off. You'll soon see what to do.

When my dog was young, an 'assistant trainer' at a dog club we used to go to (note emphasis!) once tried waving a toy at him and deliberately trying to get him going. "But he's half Border Collie?" she frowned. "I thought he'd be easy to wind up?"  Erm, no.... he gets plenty wound up when he wants to, but I've deliberately tried to foster a calmness in most situations! ;)

Just found this link today, which puts it all into perspective and explains exactly why those people you see at the park with a ball-obsessed Border Collie which does nothing else, don't really have it all under control.....

http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/no-more-play-keeps-adrenaline-bay

Trialist!
I agree. 100% with everything you've posted. And I thank you, for taking the time to post it!

We picked up our pup on Monday and I have to say she is an absolute delight!
I'm really pleased, I've already taught her 'sit' and 'down' - my partner didn't expect her to learn so quickly and it's taking longer for me to teach him how to teach her! I will sharp sort that out though.

She is a bit nippy when she gets excited, but like you've said, it's not harsh nipping, just puppy playing. So she is being corrected for this and is slowly picking it up. I've also got her into socialising with different dogs as she hadn't been near other dogs bar the ones she lived with. She attended dog class yesterday evening, met some dogs about 4 times her size and some older pups too. I was really pleased with how she reacted, all good signs and positive socialisation. As I have not yet got a CD for sounds (though it is my intention, just been so busy with her and sitting my final exams - then it's degree over!), I have been using my laptop and youtube to play sounds that way (hiding my laptop under paper so she can't see where the sounds are coming from).

As I spend most of my time at home (bar going to said dreaded exams every few days) compared to my partner who's working full time, she sticks by my side whenever we go anywhere (I think he's a bit jealous already) and looks up to me to reassure her that she's doing the right things. :)

As I type this we have just been outside for a stretch of the legs up and down the street and she has promptly settled down for a snooze.

I will give the catnip toys ago too, thanks for the tip!

Sarah

P.s - I can't find how to post pictures sooooo..... -> http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z164/babzthesheep/IMAG0790.jpg    ....and.... http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z164/babzthesheep/IMAG0783.jpg

Awwww bless.

She looks blurry around the edges because she's such a bundle of fluff.

Absolutely beautiful.

T

Great to see a pic as it is rare on here

She is so cute and fluffy

Awww, your girly is gorgeous - nice coat!!

With the noises, if you've got an Apple Mac there are some really good sound effects on that you could easily throw some into a file and that's your sounds ... rain, thunder, fireworks, engines, gunfire, people, dustbins, babies crying - anything you like really. Don't worry about her knowing where the sounds come from. The really, really, really important bit though, if you want to do it properly, is to take it very slowly, don't be in a rush. Start with the sound barely audible to you - don't be tempted to push it up a notch if she's ok with it, just let her be completely happy with it really low, after a few days, take it up but just very slightly, repeat after a few days. If you feel she's reacting then take it back to the previous level and leave it a couple of days. Also play it at 'nice' times of the day - when she's playing, when she's eating and even when she's sleeping. Twice a day minimum, if you can throw in a 3rd time even better. You also need to do it every day. I advised a friend to do this with her pup - basically she couldn't be bothered, she started off with the sound at a reasonable level on the basis that the dog wasn't bothered, she didn't follow through on a regular basis and the consequence now is that she has a noise fearful dog - thunder, fireworks and rainfall are a nightmare.

If you do it as I've suggested you wont stuff up. Give yourself 8 weeks to gradually crank the volume up to full blast!  My youngest girl started the CD at 7 weeks when I had access to her, and I brought her brother home when he was 10 weeks ... he started from scratch, and at 17 weeks when he went to his search & rescue handler he was at full blast and is a super cool dude with any form of noises.

If she is nipping, now's the easiest and gentlest time to stop it. Either a yelp, like a sibbling would do, and immediately ignore, or a sharp 'no'. I do play fight with my pups and whilst they will learn bite inhibition from their mum and litter mates, I also want them to learn the boundaries with me. Depending on what you want from your adult dog, many people will give a yelp as soon as she puts her mouth onto your flesh ... that will stop her even mouthing. I'm very happy for mine to mouth ... but there becomes a pressure point when I want them to learn to stop.

You can use any toy to play the 'findies' game, but catnip is really good - excellent substitute for drugs! There are some dogs in my lines doing drugs detection, which is why the breeder of my 3 older ones uses catnip. Place it in sight to start with, I use 'go find' or 'findies' as command. Don't give tons of verbal, just lots of praise when she finds it and maybe a game of tug (I love tug, but lots of people don't, up to you), then gradually make it harder. We 'go hide' when the dogs go outside the room, I close the door, and then they come in to 'findies'. 5 minutes of that a day is better than any 2 hour walk!

She looks gorgeous, I hope you enjoy her and good luck with your exams :=)

Thank you all, she is pretty!
And that article is a good one to read, interesting, thank you!

Trialist, I haven't got a mac hence the sounds from youtube but I will use your list of things, thanks! I have been doing it once a day, as you say very quietly, with thunder and fireworks. She seems content enough, gave her a tripe stick to chew on whilst it was playing. I will up the frequency for her though.

At the moment, she is mouthing but when she gets excited she does nip a bit harder. I have been 'AH AH'ing at her and she is aware that that means she has done something wrong. She has a squeal or tuck of her halter when she does it harder or if it's really hard a tug on the scruff of her neck. Said friend/dog class runner/shepherd pup owner - the bitch (Jet) for the pups is her dog and she is a well mannered, mother-y dog. We've been letting Pippa spend sometime with Jet, she lets her jump jump nip nip at her to a certain extent but is growling and telling her off when she takes it too far. The pups have been introduced to her slowly as she is so much smaller than they are and have been getting on well (supervised by myself and Jet's owner). Pippa does get herself rather excited bless.

All is going well, slowly moving her onto a meat diet as her skin is a bit dry (she was on 'Wagg' which is a bit naff to say the least) but as a consequence of a change she has the squirts a bit, well considerably, this morning. Her toilet training is going well (4am breaks in my sleep is taking it's toll mind!) but she does her best to hold it in (she looks for praise when she goes outside, it's the cutest thing). Couple of slip ups but much better than expected.
I haven't given her a meaty bone yet, but she had her first (small!) meat filled bone that P@H sell. She had about half of the inside of it yesterday and I've given her the other half just now to help her calm down - she's just had a daft half hour - what is the advised limit for her at 9 weeks old? One a week maybe?

As for hiding games, sometimes when you throw her a toy, she ignores it and stands looking at you as if to say 'well..?' and if you say 'get it!' and point, she still stands there... One in 10 times it happens so might have to work on that before findies can be introduced and developed!

All in all, I'm so proud of her, she aims to please almost all of the time (when she's not having a daft half hour)!

P.s - Thanks for the good luck for my exams, I am absolutely SHATTERED from this little 'en and revision is lacking (EEEP!) so gonna need all the luck I can get!

She sounds delightful.

I would be wary of introducing treats at the same time as changing over her food as you won't know which caused the squits,many treats usually have a lower age limit on them even the puppy ones although I haven't bought the latter for a couple of years.

Yes the middle of the night wee break does take it's toll but luckily it doesn't last too long as their bladders get bigger.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> she has the squirts a bit

I'm not surprised, if she has been allowed the filling out of the PAH bones.  My lot would have dysentry!  The first thing I do when I get them home, is totally scrape out the fillings (into the bin) before giving out the bones.

Really Jean? I've never heard anyone say that before. Interesting. She's eaten as much as she can reach out of it now so does just much on the boney part.

oh,shes gorgeous!

>I haven't given her a meaty bone yet, but she had her first (small!) meat filled bone that P@H sell.

If you want to feed raw then chicken wings are great for pups - just make sure you unfold them before handing them over, and stay and watch your pup eat.  I wouldn't bother with all that gunk from PAH, you never know what's in it (but can be pretty sure it's not good!).  You're better off buying Kongs and stuffing them with fillings of your choice - I use raw mince, fish4dogs salmon mousse and bits of kibble.  If you freeze them they last longer and are great for teething puppies, same for chicken wings partially defrosted is ideal.  Just remember to feed all this as part of her food allowance.

She does get a kong with some kibble and half a teaspoon of peanut butter to seal it and frozen, while I'm in my exams, theyare  no more than 2 hours, done two out of four now and she seems content with it when I leave. Especially as she has my attention for the rest of the day!
Salmon mousse, I'll keep an eye out for that, thanks!
When feeding chicken wings, are they allowed to eat the bones?

She's been to see some horses this afternoon, was really well behaved with them too, always a good sign!

>I wouldn't bother with all that gunk from PAH, you never know what's in it (but can be pretty sure it's not good!).

Bang on dogs a babe

I actually buy them, as it is one thing that the Chi's will work on, and toys are notorious for rubbish teeth if they don't get bones.  I don't feed raw, but it suits me to buy these, and remove all the gunk.

I have to say that it isn't just the little un's that get bad tums though.   It happens to my 4 breeds, and did to the Toy Poodle that I lost.  All my current dogs would eat the inside if allowed, but all have been given chronic dysentry by whatever is inside them.  That is Border Collie, Bearded Collie, Yorkshire Terrier and Long Coat Chihuahua.  I'm guessing that not many breeds would get away with being allowed all the contents of one of these.

AHHH!
Her loos were doing well until this afternoon and it gushed out of her! So I assume this is the other end of the bone. I fear it may continue for the rest of tomorrow then but as I am aware now I have scrapped the last of it out (not that she can reach the bits that are left bless her tiny tongue).

Oh well, you live and learn. And fortunately aside from the squirts at the mo, she is doing well.

Thankyou all!