When I spoke to my RC rep today she told me that the packs were more generous than what they used to be. However, they now give the new owners a coupon to redeem for a 4kg bag of food rather than for us breeders to actually give the owners the food. I really dont like this idea, this means that owners are going to have to pass a pet shop that stocks RC on the way home from picking up their puppy. Either that or we give them food out of our supply to last them until they can pick up their bag. Of course, I would do this to ensure the puppy stayed on the same diet as I was feeding. I was just wondering if there was anyway of redeeming the vouchers for the puppy buyers? Can we do it ourselves so that the puppy can go home with his/her bag of food? Or is this not allowed? Im assuming that you have to put the new owners name and address on the coupons or something along those lines?
Many thanks

Ive given up on RC puppy packs.

The little red folders were worse than useless...too small for anything meaningful.

I tried giving some of my puppy food but it looks slipshod.
No one collecting a pup will go straight to buy puppy food - so the voucher is redeemed much later.

I have tried to go to PAH myself to get packs in readiness and was treated with great suspicion
and told that it expressly says on the voucher one per customer.

Not conducive to customer ( breeder) satisfaction and I have told them 'til I'm blue in the face.

Oh no! Now I have a dilemma!!!!

When I got my older golden girl 6 yrs ago she came with a RC puppy pack, this was excellent. If I remember rightly I got a food tub, food and much more. I assumed they were the same!!! How stupid of me!
So just out of interest what do other people use to give bitch in whelp, wean pups and send them home on?
My girl is only 2 weeks in whelp (if in whelp at all), last time we used arden grange.We had to buy the bag of food to send them home on and only got a scoop and 1 leaflet. I really didnt think much of the packs.

With my latest litter I simply bought a 2 kg bag for each pup to go home with of the food they had been reared on, bought toys as well -that way I got everything as I wanted it and I just saw it as part of the cost for rearing a litter.

Im afraid I just buy a bag of what the pups are on unless Ive won some in the previous few months ( RC Mini Junior).
Our breed club shows often give RC as class prizes.

The rest of what RC offers is pretty useless albeit that coupon can be redeemed at the owners leisure.

Okey dokey, then this is what I shall do. They already go with bedding and collar and lead so will just add the rest myself.

you are right, the puppy packs used to be so much better. However, i do still use royal canin, and get around the problem of the coupon by filling out the new owners details, not my own. I use a small royal canin supplier and place my order for the amount of bags of food i will need (usually a couple of weeks before i need them) and i pick them up before the pups leave me. It is a good amount of food, but such a faff!

I won't cut and paste tooolz post, but ditto for me.  I did say to my representative on the phone that I felt it was a step backwards but she was right snotty with me.

I agree that the red pockets were a daft idea, and I felt pretty mean giving them the voucher, so gave them some of my RC as well.  While I feel we shouldn't have to!

What with the way they raise their prices, it's disappointing that the puppy pack is rubbish.  My puppy buyers used to love the storage tubs too.

I feed my dogs on Hills Food and have to say that their puppy packs are quite good. Come with a 2kg bag of food a £5 off voucher, measuring cup, information booklet on puppies development and training and all in a nicely packed bag, excellent for putting my paperwork and blankets and toys in also so nice pack for owner to go away with

Good idea about the coupons mariaday - will try that next time.  For my last litter I bought RC from PAH to send them home with - giving them some from my own sack looked so unprofessional.  The tubs were great and I still have uses for mine!

I have also spoken to my rep and she said I could 'buy' 2k packs with my points - when I tried to do this, I was informed rep had told me wrongly!

I give out the vouchers when the new owners come to visit, normally at around 4 weeks, so that gives them 4 weeks to get the food in as I know they will be visiting the pet store quite a few times before picking pup up.

Or.......you could just fill out the new owners details on the voucher and pick up their bag from your local pet store for them, must admit I did do that a couple of times (not for the whole litter just one or two on different days) when the new owners couldn't find the food, or were worried about getting the wrong one.

RC say it's better for the new owners to get it themselves as they will know what to get next time.....but when they used to give out the puppy packs the new owners could see exactly what to get next time, I found out last year that one of my puppy owners had been feeding the wrong RC for nearly a year even though I had told them, and written down the name of the food....RC told me it was because the puppy packs came from a different depot which meant sending out two deliveries and that they were trying to be environmentally friendly.....not so sure on that myself, I think they have just cut right back, which will make breeders look elsewhere.

Agree with other folks that RC puppy packs are poor compared to what they used to give out.  I give new owners a bag of food as well as the voucher.  I use the red folder for contract, diet sheet etc. etc.  Was told it's all down to cost of sending out food, tub etc.  I suppose they're cutting down on carriage charges.

So in that case it is possible to fill in the new owners details on the vouchers and pick the bags up yourself?
I think I will do this, I dont suppose it would matter as long as you didnt redeem them all at the same time from the same store. There are quite a few RC stockists around here so Im sure I wouldnt have a problem. I too would be worried about the owner getting the wrong food, if they are that unsure when they come to buy their next bag then they can take their empty bag with them surely.

RC say you can't do it, but for the couple I've done it's not been questioned in store, just did one at a time.

I know RC actually read these threads so hopefully they'll understand why we have to do it and that it would be better all round if they went back to giving puppy packs.

I've actually got the RC rep coming to my home tomorrow to see how I have got on raising my latest litter on the starter food.  I must say I am really impressed and have been encouraging the new owners to stock up on it but I am hopin I get some puppy packs tomorrow too.  I was planning on buying each puppy a 2kg bag for leaving as even if they are changing food, they will need a good supply to ease them in gradually so as not to upset the tummies.

However, i do still use royal canin, and get around the problem of the coupon by filling out the new owners details, not my own.

I have just received the puppy packs for my latest litter and you now cannot do this!  The new owner has to buy the puppy food and send off the receipt for a refund - absolutely ridiculous.  I won't bother to ask for puppy packs in future - far easier to look for RC offers in Pets at Home or similar.

Blimey they must have changed that quickly, i had mine 12 weeks ago and got the old system. this is a pretty poor show RC. And definately not the way to get puppy buyers to stay on RC as i for one wouldn't be messing around doing that.

I'd love to know how they did their market research for this idea ???

Despite only using RC I have stopped even asking for the packs too.

Waste of time!

They stopped for financial reasons only - as the original packs were expensive to manufacture and send.

It may have backfired on them though if breeders dont get new owners started on the habit of buying their product.

Eukanuba have worked a flanker by getting their food vouchers into the KC registration document pack :-)

I just bought the 2kg bags for each new owner and put in with my puppy pack.
I do like to make up a nice puppy pack for new owners and a folder with all documents and advice etc as I do agree
it's just part of the cost of rearing a litter.
Despite the red folders being flimsy and hopeless I do give them to new owners and they just end up with an extra free
bag of RC I suppose it will encourage them to continue using it.
I know it must have been costly for them but they could let the breeder redeem the vouchers so we don't have to buy our own supply.

Claire_41 - the folders are now made of thin card too, my lost lot were plastic.

Toolz - I too only use RC for raising puppies but as you say Eukanuba certainly have pole position as far as the KC goes - someone's worked a good deal there.  I wish RC would listen to breeders and revert back to the old system, I will be contacting them later today.  Fortunately we have homes for our puppies already so can give new owners the booklets now so they can get themselves sorted.  The problems arise if someone backs out and you have insufficient booklets to go round.

Just out of interest, who has reared a litter on Eukanuba and how did you find it?

> The problems arise if someone backs out and you have insufficient booklets to go round.
>
>

The RC rep did say if i had any problems and needed extra booklets for any reason she'd get them out to me.

> I know it must have been costly for them but they could let the breeder redeem the vouchers so we don't have to buy our own supply

I dont mind either buying my own supply or contributing towards puppy packs. Making sure the pups get the best start in life is my top priority and it needs to be as hassle free as possible for the new owners.

When did the voucher system change? With my last litter I was able to fill in the names and addresses myself, go to PAH and have bags ready to give each owner. To be honest I have even put fictitious names down too! PAH don't care as long as the paper is completed and this is for the good of the puppy to go with a bag of food. Unlike other people on this thread I don't feel inclined to spend £20 a bag myself for each puppy. If each of us did that and RC got £100 a litter from us all no wonder they prefer this system! No skin off their nose if none of the vouchers ever get exchanged they make money every time one of us breeds a litter. The way the food has shot up in price of late together with the lack of "special offers" we had become accustomed to RC has become a very expensive food. I too have found customer services to be sorely lacking and notice a rapid turn around of staff (never a good sign) . Although I always rear my pups on this I am all too aware that I am giving the average "pet owner" a bag of food that once used will not be replaced, we cannot kid ourselves that in this current recession £50 for a bag of dog food is within the normal family's budget can we? I am seriously considering giving out a bag of a more "middle price" dog food such as Beta . In this way there is a chance the pup will stay on it. By giving RC the owner may well price it up at PAH reject it out of hand and get something cheap and tacky instead. I think we have to be honest about this. At the moment I fear mine are going from RC to Bakers and I just want to set them off on a good food the new owner can afford to use throughout puppyhood. I would appreciate any advice on this. I intend to rear the litter on RC (and anything I keep) but need a good food for the puppy buyers who don't have the luxury of belonging to a breeders club

I just bought a 15k bag and divided it between my pups into bags with a lable on with the brand etc.

> When did the voucher system change? With my last litter I was able to fill in the names and addresses myself, go to PAH and have bags ready to give each owner. To be honest I have even put fictitious names down too! PAH don't care as long as the paper is completed and this is for the good of the puppy to go with a bag of food. Unlike other people on this thread I don't feel inclined to spend £20 a bag myself for each puppy. If each of us did that and RC got £100 a litter from us all no wonder they prefer this system! No skin off their nose if none of the vouchers ever get exchanged they make money every time one of us breeds a litter. The way the food has shot up in price of late together with the lack of "special offers" we had become accustomed to RC has become a very expensive food. I too have found customer services to be sorely lacking and notice a rapid turn around of staff (never a good sign) . Although I always rear my pups on this I am all too aware that I am giving the average "pet owner" a bag of food that once used will not be replaced, we cannot kid ourselves that in this current recession £50 for a bag of dog food is within the normal family's budget can we? I am seriously considering giving out a bag of a more "middle price" dog food such as Beta . In this way there is a chance the pup will stay on it. By giving RC the owner may well price it up at PAH reject it out of hand and get something cheap and tacky instead. I think we have to be honest about this. At the moment I fear mine are going from RC to Bakers and I just want to set them off on a good food the new owner can afford to use throughout puppyhood. I would appreciate any advice on this. I intend to rear the litter on RC (and anything I keep) but need a good food for the puppy buyers who don't have the luxury of belonging to a breeders club

Great post,
Maybe we should gather all the links up for RC posts on CD and send them to customer services ?

Just spoke to Royal Canin on the breeder line and the booklets are exactly the same,a free bag to be redeemed by owner (they dont have to reclaim the cost back its totally free) and the usual 2 vouchers £3 off next bag and £3 off cat.

Just spoke to Royal Canin on the breeder line and the booklets are exactly the same,a free bag to be redeemed by owner (they dont have to reclaim the cost back its totally free)

Must be me then!! It does say please attach proof of purchase - if not completed in full it will not be redeemed.  I think I'll give it a go and see what happens when I try to redeem them.

I dont think anyone is quibbling about the COST of food for the new owner - a drop in the ocean compared to the cost a properly rearing a pup - its the fact that they USED to provide a LOVELY tub which contained food, a bowl or toy and a lead. Such a nice thing to give a new owner when they come to get their pup.

THEN it was down to tub and food - then down to voucher for breeder to redeem - then now a flimsy voucher which I was DENIED purchase with at my local PAH and told it was for new owners alone...I wont lie - why should I?

Times may be hard - but inbetween times, I am shelling out a great deal of money for their products...... come on RC its just not good enough.

Proplan provide very nice packs still ( I think) but the food doesnt suit my dogs.

I feed fish4dogs and they still do puppy packs - pack of puppy food, scoop (very small though! but nice quality!), pack of treats, pack of mousse food.  Ideal to get the pups started - they also offer a 'puppy club' and give discounts on food.  I then simply supplement with a nice blanket, toy, puppy food to mix with the kibble and they go away happy.  I used to give collar/lead sets but find they've already bought them, so I ask if they've got them and only if they really want one do I give them, most of them prefer to buy their own.

Fish4dogs is too rich for my dogs, both pups and adults, it goes right through them, which is a shame.

I have had more stress over puppy packs this last couple of months!
I used to feed arden grange - I redeemed the vouchers myself and got £10 per bag back in credit off future food and sent people home with 7.5kg bag of food. But the problem I found was that it is so difficult to get hold of and despite telling people this they would leave it until they had run out of food then phone me in a panic looking for the food and then the inevitable would happen - they would do an instant food swap and get a sick pup. Also I found my puppies not very enthusiastic about the ag has anyone else had this problem?
So, I looked at RC but I agree their puppy packs are terrible considering the cost of the food. And despite people paying good money for a puppy once the nevelty has worn off and as cute puppy grows they may not want to keep paying the already sky high prices. (harsh but unfortunately a sad reality) so yet again puppies get fed on a different food once the breeder supply has run dry. I also found the customer services at rc snappy and aa bit snotty.
I have a litter now on Eukanuba. And their puppy packs are great. It is also good that they can get another when they contact them with their KC number which may also get them to transfer the KC ownership as so many people never do this.
I have another litter on fish4dogs and their puppy packs are great too. It is also good that they can order just 1 bag online and have it delivered and get discounts from their puppy club. the food stinks but my dogs love it. But these pups have had a few probs with sickness although they are still fit and well and I am wondering if it is food related? I did an overnight swap onto fish4dogs for these pups from eukanuba and on the eukanuba they had the runs but it cleared up overnight when they went on the fish food!
I have had 2 vets trying to get me to use proplan? Not tried it and wondered if it is good hence why vets are telling me to use it or if they get commission? Anyone know what their puppy packs are like?
I know at the end if the day we should be feeding the best possible food not just ecause they do a good puppy pack but when people are paying a lot of money for a puppy I like them to feel that we care. Hence sending them with a good puppy pack with lots of food, toys, scent blankets, vouchers, info etc etc. If we are scooping a bit of fiid into a farmfoods bag what does that thell the new owner about the breeder!!
I have another litter whom I plan to wean soon. I have Ardeb grange, fish4dogs and eukanuba here and really not sure which to use!
Mum is on a mixture of all 3 so could choose any! Just have to get it right in a morning when I am preparing everyones food in my half asleep state!

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">I also found the customer services at rc snappy and aa bit snotty

One of my biggest complaints since I queried the awful change in the quality of puppy packs.  She was so rude that I was almost ready to hear her say "take it or leave it."

I had just spent over £80 on 2 sacks of RC mini junior, and she was talking as if it was peanuts.  Next time I needed some, I stocked up on the PAH offer, and mixed half and half with Fish4Dogs.  My pups left home with Fish4Dogs puppy packs, and I changed over to it for my Collies.  The larger bite obviously!

The sheen on my Border Collie's coat speaks volumes.

I have never had a problem with RC's customer services.

I am looking at fish4dogs, how much is the breeders discount? Size of bags ect?

Depends which variety, but big breeder discount around £30 - £33 for 15kg and extremely good puppy packs, with further discounts and free delivery for new puppy owners. 

My Collies love the salmon.

> The sheen on my Border Collie's coat speaks volumes.

very interesting thanks for this :)

I have never had a problem with RC's customer services.

I am looking at fish4dogs, how much is the breeders discount? Size of bags ect?

I haven't had a problem with Royal Canin's customer services either, they phone regularly to see if all's ok and to ask if I want to order etc, if I say that I have plenty of food they are perfectly ok.

One of my youngest can't eat RC, so changed the two youngest onto Fish4dogs, I like to get mine at a show 4 x 15kg bags for £100 opposed to £30 each 15k bag from breeders club.  Wouldn't be a problem for new puppy owners to get as 1 bag can be ordered from website.

> Although I always rear my pups on this I am all too aware that I am giving the average "pet owner" a bag of food that once used will not be replaced, we cannot kid ourselves that in this current recession £50 for a bag of dog food is within the normal family's budget can we? I am seriously considering giving out a bag of a more "middle price" dog food such as Beta .

I have to say I have done this for a long time.

My prefered food is Arden Grange, but they too no longer give any food in small bags for new owners (it was only ever a 1kg bag, but it gave new owners brand/packaging awareness), They give a voucher for money off their first purchase (the breeder also get a voucher sent to them if the new owners buy, so far have only ever had one).

So I let the new owners have some from my large bags.  I also use a lower priced food (Autarky) that can be sourced from the livestock/country store outlets, and is probably the cheapest, and also another in between price wise food, have used Vitalin and most recently Fish4dogs with this last litter as people in my breed have been raving about it.

So new owners as a result get 3 choices of food that are acceptable to me, and range in price so they can afford to continue to feed one of them.  I actually suggest they use each set of offers and buy a bag of each (which will usually last them until the end of the puppy stage) and then they can decide which the pup does best on/they can source easily/afford, but by then the pup has been fed for a month on food they are used to.

One of the foods mien do not do well on is Royal Canin, whcih is a shame as they Sponsor oru breed club shows and I have to use up their food by mixing it in with theri usual.

Wow, firstly I'm in awe ... I've got one litter on the go and am shattered, you've got 3?!! :-o

I've not had a problem with Arden Grange and my dogs and my litter last year loved it. Admittedly my bitch with pups now isn't eating it, but then she's been poorly ... she's only eating the best minced steak, chicken, liver ... why on earth would she now eat any boring old kibble with that on offer!! I'm quite happy with giving the voucher to puppy owners. I like to think that they can see how much I care about the rearing of my pups by the sheer volume of work that they know I put into them, rather than basing it on the size of a puppy pack. But then I'm only willing to encourage my pup owners to feed what I'm willing to feed.

I have joined the Fish4Dogs breeder club also, and I will be using that alongside the AG for the pups this time around. Doing this as I do feed it to my dogs anyway, not all the time but occasionally, I use their fish sticks a lot and also because they do a very good breeder discount, plus it does give an alternative for pup owners to try. Without the breeder discount then there's no way I could afford to feed it. But, yes, they do appear to do very good puppy packs, with the added bonus of joining a Puppy Club - am assuming that people who join that also get a discount on food purchases. Anyone know what sort of discount?

If you're going to mix all the 3 foods you have for mum and it doesn't cause any problems, then couldn't you do that for the pups also? That way you give the puppy owners even more choice - if you're completely happy with the foods, then it's good for them to have a choice, and also the pups will be used to all 3 foods so shouldn't have any problems if they start off with one but switch to another as they find it easier to get or similar.

> If you're going to mix all the 3 foods you have for mum and it doesn't cause any problems, then couldn't you do that for the pups also? That way you give the puppy owners even more choice - if you're completely happy with the foods, then it's good for them to have a choice, and also the pups will be used to all 3 foods so shouldn't have any problems if they start off with one but switch to another as they find it easier to get or similar.

That is exactly what I do as you say that way the new owners have plenty fo food, plenty fo choice, and even if they don't stick with my choice fo three foods, then the pup is likely to adjust to a different food fairly easily by then.,

I go through at least 6 - 9 sacks of food (for Mum and pups), so having 2 or 3 of each kind is no big deal, and any left over puppy food goes onto feeding my own pup and/or Mum until her coat starts to return.

Hi Barbara, I posted this then spotted your post ... sorry, I'm sort of being your echo without realising it!! Take it as a compliment :-)

Teehee, blush ;)

My oldest litter are ready to leave as of tomorrow. But today they have turned their noses up at the Eukanuba. But I know they arent ill as I offered them fish4dogs and they all jumped straight in there! However I really do not need to be changing their food so close to leaving time as it wouldnt be fair on the new owners to cope with the possible probs it could cause.
Has anyone else found that puppies arent very enthusiastic about eukanuba?
It is the first time I have used it and I ordered another 4 bags this morning!!
I was told by the fish4dogs breeder rep that the working puppy is EXACTLY the same as the finest puppy just cheaper due to lack of VAT and poor packaging.
I have just ordered 4 bags at £30 each which includes delivery.
I have 1 litter on this and my 2 week old puppies will be getting weaned onto the fish in the next week or so.
The ones on Eukanuba are thriving and podgy puppies just noy enthusiastic about their food.

> My prefered food is Arden Grange, but they too no longer give any food in small bags for new owners (it was only ever a 1kg bag, but it gave new owners brand/packaging awareness), They give a voucher for money off their first purchase (the breeder also get a voucher sent to them if the new owners buy, so far have only ever had one).
>

I do wonder if i'll get the money off voucher and still be able to use it being that i'm part of the breeder club, lol.. we'll see. I'll ask when I pick up my pre-ordered bag of puppy food direct from them on wed

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">I like to get mine at a show 4 x 15kg bags for £100 opposed to £30 each 15k bag from breeders club.

Which would be fantastic if I had room!  I couldn't get 4 huge sacks in my car as well as 3 Collies and an assortment of tinies!

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">I was told by the fish4dogs breeder rep that the working puppy is EXACTLY the same as the finest puppy just cheaper due to lack of VAT and poor packaging.<br />

Which is totally true.  When I bought my first couple of sacks at Cruft's 2010, I bought food in pretty blue bags.  If I remember rightly, they were about 12kg.  I joined the breeder club, and once I knew the dogs were doing fine on the food, I ordered the bags in plain packaging.  (I wouldn't call it poor packaging.)  Nothing fancy, but exactly the same food.  And they are 15kg bags.  And no VAT is charged!  Which, in itself makes me smile.  I buy the working dog for the Chihuahuas as well as the Collies. 

To JeanSW - no you don't bring them home with you, you order it at the show, hence the show price and they deliver as usual a few days later!!  I too wouldn't fancy travelling our huge distances with 2 humans, 7 Frenchies, 2 Boxers, 4 sacks of food and all the other show stuff!!

Someone asked about Fish4dogs puppy club prices

25% off full price when join club makes it

1.5kg. £7.70
12kg. £37.30
15kg. £38.80

Still not as cheap as breeders prices

I joined their breeders club and received 24.assorted samples,all enjoyed the kibble but one didn't take to the Sea Jerky Tiddlers will be ordering when my current stock of RC has gone down

Thanks Rhodach, I asked about the puppy club prices. That's worth knowing ... So those prices are on a par with the AG puppy/junior food, which is good for my litter as they'll be raised on both so there are 2 comparably priced options available. I'd thought maybe the Fish4Dogs at the normal retail price might be too expensive for most.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">To JeanSW - no you don't bring them home with you,

Durrrrr!!!!  What a dumbo!  Even the first that I ordered at Cruft's at very good prices, was delivered free.  So I really don't know what planet I'm on.  In my own defence, senility is setting in quicker that you would ever have thought possible.

After reading this yesterday, I thought the fish4dogs sounded good, I went online and orderded.. just a 15kg to see how it goes.. parcel delivered 4.30pm today... now THATS service :-)  smells a bit like Burns Fish & Rice