I think I am in a no win situation here but thought someone might have an idea.

I have a very nice FIL who will just not stop coming over to the point it is claustrophobic. 

We get no time alone together at all.  Two days a week my OH has to get up at 3.30am so he can put in a whole shift at work and then go to college in the afternoon and evening, he only gets around an hour in between to relax before going out again, he doesn't want to spend that hour entertaining his Dad but even after asking him not to come, he does :(

He is constantly walking in on me (he has a key) whilst I am breastfeeding which in the early days was very difficult as I was bleeding and had mastitis.  I don't dare try to express any more because him walking in on me doing that is just unbearable.

The other problems are that he is a dirt magnet and a clumsy clot, every day he treads mud from his boots through the house.  He leans with his hands on my walls leaving big dirty handprints, everything he borrows he breaks, our brand new Vax, my OH drill, etc.  Yesterday my OH had the wooden counter off in the kitchen to fix something and FIL just went over and leant on the exposed framework and broke it!  My kitchen is only a year old and he didn't even say sorry.  He doesn't value anything.

He has lived in the same area all his life and knows everyone but doesn't have his own social life.  He has no hobbies and no interests. 

We used to get Saturday night off as he used to go to dinner with his brother and his wife but after turning up with his overnight things without the appropriate invite every week they got fed up and the dinners stopped.  He used to spend a fair bit of time at his other sons house too but after trailing dirt and destruction through their newly renovated house, things got very strained between him and my SIL who is very houseproud (no dogs, lol).

What do I do?  He is very easily offended.  He has moaned for months that he is not welcome at his other son's house and has been really hurt by it, but is unable to see why it upsets her that he trashes her house. 

If we tell him he can only come 2-3 times a week he will totally over react, refuse to come over at all and just sit in misery by himself and do everything he can to make us feel guilty.  I think 2-3 times a week is fair.

I hope someone has some advice for me as the only choice I can see is being stressed that he's always here or guilty that we've told him to stay away.

Thanks for reading
Mel

I would start by taking the key off him and say you are uncomfortable with him walking in willy nilly with no warning.

Start a policy of removing his shoes at the door, leave a pair of slippers for him to use, get him to wash his hands as he is leaving mucky marks everywhere, you could use the excuse that the baby may pick up something from the mess he brings with him.

Then have set days when he comes around, that you need time alone as a family.

If all else fails then some plain speaking may be needed, he is now upsetting the third members of his family so it is about time he realised the fault must lie with him and not everyone else.

Good Luck

Sounds as though you have already tried talking to him and it hasn't worked previously, you could try again, but it seems as though he doesn't wish to get the message if other family members have just stopped seeing him through his lack of respect of your own family units and homes.

He sounds lonely to be honest, he probably needs a partner or a hobby, do you have any singles clubs in your area that you could drag him to, that would be the best way to cut down his visits to give him another person or interest to focus on, would he be interested in an allotment, dancing, bowling, college classes or something? Or am I scrapping the barrel here. :-D

He needs more than just his family,

Your husband needs to sit him down and tell him that he is becoming too intrusive and if he wants things to go the same way as with his other son, he needs to tell him that he should not get upset that you want your own private family time, it's normal. Secondly, take the key off him so that he can not just walk in, don't worry if he gets upset, he'll have to learn to cope with not having his own way. Be polite and explain in black and white, he may just not get it and needs you not to pussyfoot around and just be straight, your husband needs to stress that he loves him, but he is in his life too much and he has no breathing space, the apron strings need cutting.

I see my mother almost everyday, she comes for a dog walk with me, but then she goes home, it's time spent just with us, she respects that I have a husband and my own children and we are our own family, if my husband saw her every day he would soon get fed up even though he thinks the world of her, it's natural that people want their own family units.

He may well get the hump and fall out with you, but I think it's just going to have to happen for a while until he learns to be respectful of your own space. But your husband needs to be the one to be brave enough to talk to him in the end he will have to come around otherwise he will be biting off his own nose, tell your husband to try not to feel guilty that is what gets people in situations like this being made to feel mean, your not being mean.

The only other option is to move away so that it is not as easy for him to come every day. Can your husband get a transfer?

He probably does not understand it seems his family have all got upset with him, but did they explain why? If no-one explains he won't learn, if they have and it is that he is just pig ignorant then I'm afraid you'll have to just all learn the word NO! Once you have said it a couple of times it will come easy. :-)

Posted at the same time as Carrington. I take it he lives on his own and maybe retired?  He sounds really really lonely to me :(  and just after some company.  Does he have any hobbies or other interests/friends? He probably doesnt realise how clumsy he is being.  I would perhaps suggest that your OH has a word with him (after all he is his Dad) and say that now the baby has arrived that you need to spend time together as a family, however would he like to come over for tea one evening of a weekend, but it would mean that your OH needed time on his own during the week to learn to be a good dad (like your FIL?)  It would mean that your FIL would have something to look forward to and a reason why he shouldnt just pop in, but if its worded properly wouldnt feel like a rejection.  I would also buy him a present perhaps from the baby? of a pair of slippers to keep at your house so that he could leave his shoes at the door.

He does actually sound like a really good candidate for an elderly dog from the Oldies Club?

You have hit the nail on the head. He is very lonely and does not like his own company.  That's why we don't want to upset him.

He is a typical working man, brought up on a farm, pulled out of school at 14 to work the land. He doesn't have ANY interests or hobbies, his lack of education makes even reading difficult for him.  He has no interest in learning how to use a computer or going out to meet new people.  He's not quite disabled but has lots wrong with him and seems to be in quite a bit of pain.

He is the type of person who only hears what he wants to hear, so it doesn't matter how we say it, all he will hear is that he's not welcome. 

He knows why there were problems with my SIL as she was very vocal when he broke her new blinds, broke her glasses, left hand prints over her walls, traipsed mud through the house, etc. but because these things wouldn't bother him he doesn't understand why it bothered her.  If he broke a leg off his own table, he'd just wack a bit of 2 by 4 on it and as far as he was concerned it would be as good as new.

The dog idea wouldn't work unfortunately, our Dobe used to be his. We took her off him as he allowed her weight to get to 72kg and never took her to the vet.  We even bought a suitable food for him to give to her but every time we went round there was left over curry or chinese in her bowl and he kept lying about giving it her!  We took her to the vet for him and it turned out she needed medication for her thyroid and the vet said she would be dead within 2 years if she didn't lose the weight.  We did feel really mean taking away his only company but we really had no choice.

I guess he's just going to have to be told and we will just have to feel guilty when he totally over-reacts about it.
Thanks for the feedback

You know you say he doesn't have any interests of hobbies, what about making some happen, it may not make him feel so bad having something in common with his son and to share once a week or so there may be things that his aches and pains can still allow him to do, what about your hubby taking up fishing, playing golf (depending on problem) football (watching) rugby, speedway, pottery classes etc, just something where he can phone his dad and say come on let's go and.......... along with meeting other people.

He might like to go swimming with you all, something to make him feel wanted but keep him out of your house, (he sounds like Norman Wisdom :-D :-D) I agree in inviting him for dinner once a week or so and maybe going over to his place, (well, hubby could, might not be great for baby) speak out when he's dirty, you don't have to sound sharp just tell him, your not coming in with those dirty hands, boots on.

We are all going to get old and we do need people, he obviously doesn't bode well in entertaining himself which is a shame to put himself on his children so much, but he is not going to go out and look for something else to do, he will probably wallow in self pity and get angry that you are shutting him out, so best to try to find something for him to gently wean him away.

my grandmother was like this to my mum, not that mum did not want her to come over but not all the time, so my mum found a club for older people and introduced my gran to this club just once a week to start with but they where all people like her, and i always remember when my mum said you fancy having tea this week sometime and gran said can't sorry off to pottery class with some of my friends it was brillaint for them both .

she went on day trips and went to the horse racing and even went to see the lights in blackpool with the gang as gran called them she went from a very lonely lady to outgoing and having a brilliant social life again.

I really admire your patience with your FIL.  He does sound very lonely & perhaps depressed??
If he has any kind of skill/talent that could be put to good use....it would also help to make him feel wanted/useful.
or could you not ask him say 2 or 3 days a week to walk the dogs?
I do think you & your OH should sit down with him & explain as kindly as poss. the situation but at the same time suggest alternative arrangements. i.e dinner at your's maybe once or twice a week.  Perhaps also speak to your SIL & ask her to invite him over occasionally.
Good luck x

I had a similar situation with my BIL.
When we asked him not to come round without asking first he would act as if he didn't know what we were talking about and make us feel bad.
In the end I just had to put my hand out, look him in the eyes and ask for the key back.

You are entitled to privacy and dignity, and he will just keep doing this until you stop it. If you fall out then so be it, it is his loss.

I hope you get some peace soon. XXX

Thank you all for your kind replies, your right he does need to be told, I guess it's just finding the right time and the right words. 

I forgot to say that he does have one interest and that is Rugby.  He used to play when he was younger and coached the local youth teams when my husband was growing up, he lives 1 minute away from the club, knows everyone there and REFUSES TO GO!!

He is very interested in doing our gardening and went out with a hedge cutter to cut the ivy on the wall and cut all the supports for my climbing rose causing it to fall down and cut down the string with all my bird feeders on and they all smashed on the ground.  He didn't say he'd done it, just left it all there for me to find.  He then went down to the veg garden to do a bit of weeding and pulled up half our pea seedlings.  When he used to have his own garden he had no interest in gardening, it's just an excuse to come over.

It would be ideal if my OH could take him out to mix with his local community but with his work and college he's effectivly working 60+ hours a week and is exhausted. His other son just does what he is told by his wife and she has made it very clear that he is not welcome.

It's only in the last 2 years that he's had to live alone.  He didn't leave home till he got married, when he divorced my OH chose to live with him as he felt sorry for him and his brother wanted to live with his Mum so he'd get all his laundry done. When my OH went travelling overseas his brother then moved in with him as no rent was a more attractive option than having his laundry done.  BIL lived with him till HE got married last year.

I would love him to find a good woman to keep him occupied but who would be able to put up with his clumsy ways?

Have advised OH that it's up to him to say something so we will see.

Thanks for listening, it's just nice to be able to get it off my chest.
Mel

Has he always been this clumsy or is there possibly a medical reason for it ?

He has always been this way as he doesn't value things but it is probably worse now because he has a bad foot and hobbles a bit as he walks. 

He thinks a house should be functional and doesn't understand the concept of having things as nice as possible.  Last month my OH helped him move house and he put the carpet in himself, he just cut the shape round the fireplace by eye and seemed perfectly happy with the fact that there is a wavey inch wide gap between the carpet and the wall.

All the clumsy accidents could poor eyesight be the cause?

He is blind in one eye but by strange coincidence my dad is blind in one eye too and has bad balance due to partial deafness, but my Dad is not clumsy at all.  But then my dad wouldn't dream of using the same shoes to trudge through a muddy building site for wearing in the house. 

I get the impression that my MIL spent the entirety of their marriage shouting at him over all these things.  If 15 odd years of nagging hasn't worked I guess nothing will.

The idea of slippers is good on the surface, however as he has prooved with others, if you give him an inch he will take a mile.  I know what he really wants is to move in with us and he may well see slippers as an invitation.

I would just like to add that I really do like my FIL, he is a nice guy, I just don't want to feel like I'm living with him

Don't know whether there's anything like it near you but my dad has just started going to a day centre.  He's been suffering with depression, has balance prob.s for the past few years.  He said that he didn't want to go to places like this but this ones brilliant.  They have different rooms, one is kitted out like an old shop, another like a pub decorated in the old styles.  Dad now loves going and has been going there for the last couple of months.  They have a film day, football days, computers etc. 

I get the impression that my MIL spent the entirety of their marriage shouting at him over all these things.  If 15 odd years of nagging hasn't worked I guess nothing will.

The idea of slippers is good on the surface, however as he has prooved with others, if you give him an inch he will take a mile.  I know what he really wants is to move in with us and he may well see slippers as an invitation.

The thing with nagging is, it doesn't work, it's my belief that anything said must always be followed through, so that there is some sort of consequence (ie mean what you say!).  BUT you can still say what you want, and be firm but kind, if he doesnt listen then physically gently organise him so that he has to at least abide by your rules. So I agree with whoever it was who said to tell him he can't come in with those muddy boots on, etc. You can make it  into a joke but be firm behind that. I am sure that even in the days when he was a lad, the women did not like cleaning up all day after muddy boots, and asked the men to jolly well take their boots off, thank you very much. It's even possible that the "nagging" was something he rather liked as it made him feel cared for, so he continues with you.

Clearly having lived with his sons, Ican see why he thinks he can just sort of wander in and out of their homes - I think gentle but firm persuasion could be the order of the day here. Good luck!!

Lindsay
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