Have just made an enquiry about some pups advertised on the KC puppy list and been told that the stud owner would only allow him to be used if all the pups were endorsed against being bred from and pups registered.

Never heard of this before as I understood it was the dams owner who registered the pups and placed any endorsements and also could lift them later if all criteria was met.

Any comments?

We too ask the dams owner to endorse any resulting pups.

It is only a kind request as it is no way enforceable.

It looks to as if the stud dog owner is as concerned about the resulting pups as the owner of the bitch, which is a very good thing...thumbs up

if one of my boy's is used i would insist on endorsments being placed !

But how will you enforce it? as you have to register them to endorse and once they are registered its to late, or am i missing somethink?

I am guessing any pups the breeder wants to keep back are okay to not be endorsed?

I understand the endorsements,I use them myself, it was the stud owner stating they had to be endorsed that threw me.

How would they know if the pups were endorsed or not, does it say in the breed supplement or is there some other way of checking?

I've done the same thing when my boys have been used. Some stud dog owners ask for the litter registration paperwork to be send to them and then they send it on to the KC. 

It's done on trust...I was asked by the stud owner to endorse my litter, as I would have done anyway, there is nothing to be gained by going against their wishes, the puppy I am keeping will also be endorsed but of course I can lift this should I then decide to breed from her.

> How would they know if the pups were endorsed or not, does it say in the breed supplement or is there some other way of checking?

It will tell you on their registration certificate.   This is common place in cats, some stud cats owners will have stipulations about what can and can't be placed on the active register (Suitable for breeding) and most cat breeders tend to register all kittens on the non-active register then move them later to active, if necessary.

I do exactly the same if my boy is used, its part of the stud contract.

Diane

puppy I am keeping will also be endorsed but of course I can lift this should I then decide to breed from her

Which ofcourse the puppy breeder can also do if they so choose for the rest of the litter so to me i can't see how it can be enforcable.

The stud owner isn't going to see the puppy registration documents to check the endorsements.

This is very interesting that many stud owners are asking for endorsements to be placed but as already asked I wonder how enforcable it is and what is there to stop the breeder of the pups lifting it later without consulting the stud owner.

Majority of breeders do their puppy registrations online and there are no "papers" to be filled in and posted to the KC.

I too ask that anyone who uses my boy endorses the litter.  As previously mentioned, with on-line registrations so popular now, it is done on trust.  I always inform people of this so this is another part of the equation when deciding whether or not to use my boy.
To date, everyone has been in complete agreement as endorsements are becoming more common.  Bitch owners understand that endorsements MAY be lifted if all health tests completed and are satisfactory, has excellent temperament and is a good example of the breed

Ridgielover - I have not heard of paperwork being send to studs owner before.  I would like to think this unnecesary and continue to trust people.  But something to bear in mind should I ever find out litter has not been endorsed as per my request.

Even if the regsitration is done online, its KC guidance to get the signature of stud dog owner on a paper litter registration in case of dispute. There is a certian amount of trust and yes the breeder can lift endorsements later but I wouldnt be letting my boy be used on anyone ( OK we do have a numerically small breed) I didnt know or know of. As a stud dog owner you can only go so far to protect your dogs progeny but it's got to be worth the effort to go as far as you can  and to state your intentions to the dams owner and send a message out to anyone else that is considering using your boy.

Diane

The ic on the 3 occasions my boy has been used have only cOntacted me once, it is a interesting point which maybe the mc should look into but in the current setup I can't see how it can work apart from in goodwill and let's face it as soon as some people see pound signs it goes out the window.

I think a lot of decent stud dog owners will make the same request. It is not enforceable but based on a mutual trust surely ?

Think that trust has to be there for you to agree to someone using your dog anyway, you may not like them but you must trust them and you must like the bitch. The creation of new live needs care, trust and consideration so if asked to place on an endorsement I can't see why anyone would not oblige.

exactly trust has to be there between bitch and stud dog owner, if i have any reservations  and maybe i have been lucky they won't use my boys, obviously there could be one that fools you but most are honest
and will abide by my stud dog contract .