Hi
My five month old very boistrous puppy skidded whilst on a walk the other week, a day or so later was limping in front, we treated her with metacam and rest with no improvement,so we then took her to the vet, had x rays in both front legs nothing was apparent, she doesnt seem to be in any pain and it certainly hasnt calmed her down any even though we have not walked her since her limp began, the vet suspects it could be ocd  and is starting her on a course of weekly injections in the first instance for four weeks and if no improvement to a specialist.
She has good quality food for her type and breed as recco from her breeder, but is a big strapping girl as the vet commented on in her very first visit for a puppy health check and first vaccination, he said show dogs are being bred bigger as retrievers used to be much smaller, she is not fat but big boned and tall, i wonder if anyone has had similar experience, i am devastated for her future as we bought her to show, but yes her health and wellbeing comes first, she is such a fun loving happy puppy

Has anyone had similar?

I had a Bern pup who ripped a muscle in her front leg. We could not find anything at first to explain her limping but after she was x-rayed, scanned, give pain relief, rested and swum...eventually a ripped muscle was diagnosed, she came sound it took 6 months hard work. Her elbows scored 0:0 when scored and no sign of OCD. A vet cannot diagnose OCD with out specialist x-rays and scans so if you are worried ask for a referal to a specialist. Don't automatically accept the diagnosis without further investigations.
It may be something like a muscle tear or a tendon injury.
Aileen

Thankyou, its such a minefield isnt it and a worrying time its like having babies again.

I have had no experience of such a problem but I would be reluctant to embark on the injections so soon bearing in mind her age and the x-rays show no apparent changes.  Are there any side effects to these drugs etc?

Is the limping any better/worse than when she had the accident?

Do you have a hydrotherapy pool near you that you could try exercise without weight bearing?

hi
I might be wrong here but i think the drugs are to help build more or stronger cartlidge to support a rapidly growing skeleton, no worse and no better limp wise, she hasnt been out for walks since it happened but does play alot in the house anyway as i say she is very bouncy giddy pup to keep her any calmer would have to be caged or sedated, just hope its not a worse case scenario

My pup got a limp at 5& half months which sadly turned out to be UAP - a form of elbow displasia. I'm not suggesting your pup has anything serious or long-term, but I completely understand your concern, it is a devastating worry :(

As Merlot has said, diagnosis is really needed by a specialist and may not be obvious on x-rays. With my pup, his xrays clearly showed the UAP, but the vet would not diagnose this for certain without the input of an orthapedic specialist.

If growth abnormalities are suspected (including OCD) then switching to adult food instead of puppy/junior would, I'd have thought, been the vets advise. The problem with puppy food is it can encourage allready rapid growth, so by switching to an adult food, the growth rate can be brought back to a more natural level (and thus avoid causing further problems through a forced growth rate).

A good quality glucosamine suppliment may help her and if not, will do her no harm, Glucosamine HCL is better than Glucosamine sulphate. GLucosamine is for the health & repair of cartlidge. Do make sure, if you do get the suppliment, that it is fine for dogs.

Best of luck.

looks to me to be too soon to be thinking the worst case scenario ..it takes week/months for a injury to repair itself naturally ..the good thing is that you know when pup recieved the injury as you saw it occur  ..it hasnt just appeared so dont rush in ...  a referral for a consultation would be the way I would go rather than giving meds to such a young pup..

Just MO

At the beginning of last December my dog suddenly couldn't put any weight at all on one back leg; painkillers did nothing, so we x-rayed and manipulated him, but nothing abnormal showed up. So we went for the conservative option; out for toilet purposes only, then back indoors. After a months he was starting to be able to put weight on it again, and now, four months on, he's only slightly wobbly on it and can go for walks of several miles again. We were lucky that he's a more senior dog, so resting him wasn't as difficult as it would be with a puppy, but equally a puppy's healing abilities are better than an older dog's. Give her time and rest.

Many years ago I had a friend whose Golden was diagnosed with OCD (not sure what method they used now to do the actual diagnosis), he was on cage rest for many months in the house and not allowed to run around indoors with or without the other dogs. He had short lead only walks each day. It was a very difficult time for the owner (and dog) as puppies are very 'busy' (as indicated by my 14 week old who is currently playing with his mother).

The good news is he did recover fully and was successfully shown and worked as a picking up dog, was never bred from though.

thankyou everyone for your replies x

2 of my Rotties were diagnosed with Panosteitis (sp), which I believe is a viral condition affecting the marrow in the bones, they both grew out of it. As I understand it, it can affect larger breed dogs during the juvenile period. My boy was so bad, that the vet initially thought he'd broken his leg.

thats interesting tadsy, how was it diagnosed? and did you have to do anything special?
thanks

How much exercise were you giving your pup prior to her injury?

she had a lead walk for approx half an hour most nights round the estate and off the lead walks about three times a week round the field or streams in rivington, if we didnt do a road walk she would go on the field behind us for a similar time for free walk n play, she had lead or free walk daily with occasionally a field in the morning n quick toilet road walk at night when i get in from work, we have been careful not to over exercise our pup, we have a large house and she has lots of room to be giddy indoors

I agree with the poster who said it is a bit early to be going down the route of injections etc. As you saw the accident happen and are reasonably certain that this is what caused the limp I would give it a bit longer to see if there is any improvement before going down this route (Just my opinion). As you bought her with the intention of showing her I would imagine that you went to a breeder who does all the relevant health tests for the breed - this link shows you the tests available

http://www.goldenretrievers.co.uk/application/council/health.php

I'm not sure if you have heard of the 5 minute rule for walking puppies and very young dogs (don't want to teach you to suck eggs :-) ) but have included a link to a previous thread on here just in case you weren't aware of it :-)

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=1219806;hl=5%20minute%20rule%20for%20walking%20puppies#pid1219806

GR puppies are very bouncy - and mine who is coming up to 6 years of age still continues to bounce :-)

Hi Julie, I have sent you a pm.

Thanks goldiemad I've messaged you back, have just checked no message from you about handling
Thanks
Julie

It can only be properly diagnosed by Xray, the marrow looks different, a bit like cotton wool. But i did find a website which said a rough diagnosis could be obtained by gently squeezing the leg affected in the centre of the long bone, so not around a joint, and if there is a reaction (flinch) etc, it could be indicative of Pano.

My girl had it first, at about 8/9 months, intermittent limping, the vet thought she had a sprained "wrist" (front leg), so did umpteen xrays (good thing we were insured), and diagnosed growing pains - or Pano in other words. No treatment as such, just pain relief. Apparently it's unusual in bitches, it's usually males that get it because they're bigger by nature.

With Dave it was a hind leg, he'd been in kennels over the weekend, and when we picked them up he seemed to be favouring it a bit but nothing really alarming, they do have a ball in the kennels, by the next morning he couldn't touch it to the floor. Vet thought it was a break, but xrays again showed pano.

Thanks Tadsy, she's had x rays on both front legs on monday and both legs are sound with no changes and nothing apparent which is why i thought the initial news ws good but then the vet said it could still be ocd, fingers crossed the injections work and all will be well, she is housebound which is bloody hard work at the min cos when i come in from work she has a mad hour leaping running jumping throwing her toys around etc which is counter productive but she is a very boistrous puppy and always has been

Hi Julie
I have a 5 1/2 yr old male Golden Retriever here who was diagnosed with OCD at around 6 months. He had intermittent lameness & was a big bouncy boy, a nightmare in fact! When the specialist sat us down after his elbow operation (to clean up the joint head) and said he wasn't allowed to do anything for several weeks, my husband and I just looked at each other with horror on our faces because he was such a livewire! Anyway, long story short, I'm sure his recovery was hampered by himself because he would just do something stupid which would put him back several weeks. We made it in the end but it was not for the fainthearted and I wouldn't want to go there again...

So the good news is that your pup's xrays seem to be alright, and it sounds like you're not overdoing the exercise. It could just be  "growing pains" or simply that she has an injury which is taking a long time to heal because of her bounciness. Do you crate her at all? I am wondering if it might be an idea to restrict her movements around the house for a few days, even take her by lead to the garden, and spend lots of time training to work her brain. At least with some proper rest, her body will have more chance to recover.

I would never advise total rest lightly, I have been there with a large bouncy puppy and I know what a NIGHTMARE it was for us!!!

As a side note, the Osteo specialist we saw said that with OCD he almost exclusively sees male large breed puppies. I doubt it's impossible for a bitch to suffer with this condition, but it's mainly males. I would point out that OCD can affect other joints not just elbows. Could it be she has an injury to her shoulder? This would make her limp also...

As for their food, our 7 1/2 month old GR bitch puppy here is on her last sack of the Puppy/Junior she was weaned onto before we change to the adult food, she too is really energetic, so I know how hard it is to get the happy medium of a content puppy. I often think she's a bit hyper, but once she's had a good belt round on her walks in the morning, she's much calmer. If she didn't have that burst of energy in the mornings, I doubt I'd be able to peel her off the ceilings - and she's having about 45 mins twice a day now, just enough to keep her and us sane!!

I've been a bit shocked by how heavy some of the puppies are in the ring to be honest, I've upped our pup's rations as she's a bit too lean, but have been inthe ring alongside pups who seem very heavy, I think i'd rather have one which will mature more slowly tbh...

What does everyone else think?

Good luck with her, I'll keep my fingers crossed that with some rest she'll recover just fine and you can carry on as you were.

Such a worry aren't they???
Tanya

I help in a hydrotherapy pool where the person who runs it also does physiotherapy.  For the majority of the dogs who come to the pool where the owner advises the dog is limping on a front leg, it is the diagonally opposite back leg which is causing the problem and vice versa.  Also, not walking them at all causes issues as the muscles start to atrophy with no exercise.

My spaniel currently has a tear in the muscle on her hip which was found by a canine massage therapist.

To be honest if the X-Rays were OK then I would suspect a soft tissue injury and they can take from 3 to 5 month to mend so although NSAID will help they are not needed unless there is loads of pain. Keep activity to the minimum until the limp improves and then slowly increase the exercise, lead walking is best as it builds muscle without the danger of free running exuberance.

Pano. is common in large breeds I am not sure what causes it but I think it is just a growing problem that effects the long bones it always clears its self only needing pain killers if the dog is in distress, however in this case you saw the injury happen so you know that something is damaged.

Hi
Went to the vet monday and hopefully she will respond to the injections, he does seem to think more growth related due to her being a big bouncy girl, i went to a show at weekend to watch and i was quite surprised at  how mature and meaty the puppies were, in the horse world yes they were in  whats described as showring condition, ie a bit fat but what about joints later in life?,i compared the meat on my puppies bones and although i consider  her to be a big girl she has not the same level of fat as the show ring pups i saw, the vet describes my pup as a super fit big puppy.

Morning

Just a quick update on my goldy pup

She is much improved thank god no limp for a week, vet really pleased thinks it was the growth spurt and the skid may or may not have contributed at all, she,s had two injections and is doing superb road walks four times a day for fifteen mins , phew I am sooooo relieved,

Thanks everyone for comments
Julie and cassie

thank you for the update... some people pop on for info and never return so it is good to hear esp when things are going well....were a  nosey lot on here and I for one do think about the dogs discussed and even bore my OH with it.

> what was that I hear 'get a life' <<< ha ha ..:)

Really pleased that she is much improved :-) I would however cut down on the exercise - the amount she is getting is what would normally be given to a dog of 10 months and she is much younger than that and is recovering from a mobility problem. It would be a real shame to risk her recovery and possibly cause more problems in the future :-)

Have a quick peep at the 5 minute rule for walking puppies :-)

> She is much improved thank god no limp for a week, vet really pleased

Great news :-D

Fingers crossed that's the end of that then :)

Thanks everyone :)
Harley the exercise is as per vets instructions to give restricted controlled little and often to build up gently not off lead yet.