Background
My girl (medium-sized breed) has started her 3rd season 6 weeks earlier than expected. First season at 10 months, 2nd 10 months later. We are now on day 8 and due to vet's being closed for another Bank Holiday weekend, I've been doing a saliva test for the past 3 days.

Day 6 - ferning visible
Day 7 - about 70% of surface covered with distinct ferning
Day 8 - at least 80% dense ferning

Pictures on the 'net' show a variety of degrees of coverage as the best indication of ovulation! Has anybody any experience with this method? If today is as good as it gets, she will be taken to stud on Tues (in 2 days). A repeat mating on Thurs is impossible as the dog will not be available on that day.

If she won't stand on Tues, I can get a blood test done on Wed and take her again on Fri, if indicated.

I'm really worried I'm going to get the timing messed up!

From what I have heard and read on this matter I understood that any fern pattern was an indication of ovulation taking place, then the eggs are ripe 48hrs later.

Could you have missed the beginning of the season as day 8 is early for ovulation[ one of my girls ovulates that early but it isn't the normal]

Thanks for the response, I know it seems early but there is a distinctive odour to the onset of her season! I think I might have to consider a trip tomorrow and maybe Wed.

I can't comment on the ferning, but my girl has just had a litter of 6 pups last week and I had her pre-mate tested at the vets on day 7, the results came back the next day saying mate now, so 8 days is definitely not unfeasible. She was mated on day 9 and 10 as we were too late to go down on day 8.  Good luck.

having used the matetel tester for a number of litters .. ferning usually starts on the outside with the middle part more like icicles when the ferning is across the scope with little bits of icicles that is when I usually take the bitch to the stud dog.
You can also feel your bitch is she soft..not tight.

If you get a mating on Tuesday i would still go back Friday for a second mating, if she mates on the first occasion bit won't stand on Friday you will know she has gone over by Friday. 

Remember some males will refuse to mate a bitch until she is ripe (48 hours after ovulation), no matter how willing she is, some will mate a bitch at first sign of willingness..

If you go for just the one mating, and it's rather early your chances of conception will be reduced.

If it isn't a Long journey I would go Monday to gauge reaction of the pair.

Hi I tried useing the ferning method for testing alongside Progesterone testing , just for curiosity, and it was really no good whatsoever,totally out of sych to the Progesterone tests( which always work for me : 3 litters of 9 and 1 of 7). If I had gone along with the ferning method I would not have had a litter I am sure. So Good luck :-)

I have used the scope for the last 3 litters I have had all good size litters. My friend has just mated a bitch she used the scope on the friday she was fully ferning but the stud dog owner wanted progesterone testing so she had the bloods done too and was told she wasnt ready eventhough the scope said she was and so did her boy.. she decided to follow the prog test and was told to take the bitch on the Monday and Wed of  the following week she stood half heartedly on the Monday so she went the Tuesday and had another half hearted slip mating the Wed she wouldnt stand and the boy wasnt interested...now if it had been my bitch I would have gone by the scope and taken the bitch on the Saturday  Sunday.
A well know stud dog owner and breeder in my breed has told me that she never requests blood tested because she has had so many people turn up saying thier bitches are ready and they are not she finds it unreliable.

> A well know stud dog owner and breeder in my breed has told me that she never requests blood tested because she has had so many people turn up saying their bitches are ready and they are not she finds it unreliable.

I suspect the owners or even vets are misinterpreting the results.  If not doing quantitative ELISA tests but relying on the kits which are less accurate (day or so but accurate enough for natural service) Ovulation day and mating days are not the same.

Some bitches and males will mate just before, and during ovulation (at which point the bitch cannot yet conceive), some will not mate until at least two days later.

When doing AI they inseminate 3 days after ovulation when there are likely to be most ripe eggs as of course defrosted or chilled sperm delivered by this method has a much shorter life.

Nothing beats having a bitch and stud dog on same the premises for a week or so with an experienced male knowing when the time is right.

I progesterone tested the second time with my bitch and resulted in no pups.  The next time we had the stud to stay and it resulted in a tie on the dogs own accord and i had a resulting litter.  Both dogs knew when they were ready and less stress for the girl.

>Hi I tried useing the ferning method for testing alongside Progesterone testing , just for curiosity, and it was really no good whatsoever,totally out of sych to the Progesterone tests( which always work for me : 3 litters of 9 and 1 of 7). If I had gone along with the ferning method I would not have had a litter I am sure. So Good luck

I've used the ferning method with every litter we've had and never missed, I use a micro-scope though rather than the MateTel.

I used progesterone testing (idexx) and like a previous poster used a microscope aswell as i was curious. All i could see was even spaced stars on day of ovulation,nothing again, i wouldnt like to rely on it.
I took my girl to the dog 2 days after ovulation and she was difficult - got a slip mating, next day dog wasnt interested, next day a good mating - 4 day after ovulation. Shes now on day 60 and expecting 3 maybe 4 pups. Good luck.

I have used ferning 3 times and allways accurate with larger than normal litters. When ferning starts i usually mmate 2 days and 4 days later

I've been using a cheap microscope from Ebay and a plastic baby's spoon to retrieve samples!

We couldn't get there today, but have an early start in the morning. Fingers crossed.

She's losing very little pinkish blood but is very "soft".

Well, she flirted and stood and the dog tried, but no actual mating. At the crucial moment she would have none of it!

She's staying with the stud dog owner for a few days as they think she may have a day or two to go, despite the ferning indicating otherwise.

Thanks, everybody for your input.

Well, despite the "ferning" evidence, we have had successful matings and ties on Days 13 and 14! The stud dog owner wants a final try on Day 15 before we fetch her, too.

It makes me wonder if her saliva was somehow "contaminated" - maybe by washing herself? She hadn't eaten or drunk anything in the 2-3 preceding hours  testing and the slides and spoon were scrupulously cleaned.