... does it make it a little unfair in group judging?

This is my first attempt at a post and this is a question I have asked myself even since I started showing my dogs. My breed is shown "free standing" and it takes quite a bit of practice and training to get a dog to stand all four square without touching their legs or holding their head in any way... Quite a few breeds are like this too but some are "held" in position (I'm well aware it's not as easy as it looks particularly with a big breed).
My thought was if I could have "stacked" one of my boy in this way, he would have looked a lot better - he has a tendency to bring his back feet forward in the ring as he's not relaxed (he can stand perfectly well at home when he's relaxed). As it's a no no in my breed, I can't help him show himself off :-) but if I had another breed I could help him in this way.

I wondered how other fellow show goers think and maybe someone can explain why the GSD are shown in a different stand to all other breed?

Thanks

I wouldn't say so. A properly built dog WILL stand well naturally and therefore it should be the easiest thing in the world to teach a free standing breed a good show stand. My husband has it down perfectly with pups by 3-4 months of age at the latest. It's just a case of rewarding whenever the correct stand happens naturally. You'll see it in pups as young as a few weeks of age. Suddenly they stand still for a moment and there it is, perfect show stand because it is the natural way to stand. But of course the dog MUST be built well! On the other hand, you VERY often see stacked breeds where the person has pulled the legs too far out making the dog look like a rocking horse, doing it no favours at all. When you're that close to the dog, it's almost impossible to see if the legs are right or not. Yes you can hide faults by stacking, but more often than not those would come out when the dog moves.

Can't answer about GSDs.:)

use to show gsds it is to do with showing the backline off, in answer to putting his legs back we train ours that when we touch the toes of back feet with our foot and i do mean just touch or a gentle nudge and we say foot back and with enough training they will do it and when they do reward them with treats and praise, our youngest one has a new command we start teaching it a eight weeks when standing on the table and the command is tail down, it was taught by running hand down back from head to croup with the command tail down, she is now 3 and has done it on command since she was about 5 months old

Thanks for your replies, I think it's always interesting to hear what others do to train their dog for the showring - I;ve trained my reluctant dog to show but I will never get him to show himself off as I think he just does not like the ring. He will be fine outside the ring and I always reward train at home and have treats in the ring but he just does not feel at ease.
I have tried touching the back toes but he just jumps out the way as soon as I move my foot towards his feet  LOL He's a funny dog! LOL

I can see how stacking can have its disadvantages and of course I know the badly constructed dog will show his faults in movement but I just wonder whether it wouldn;t be fairer in some way to have all dogs shown in the same way (either stacked or not) for all breeds... :-)

but I just wonder whether it wouldn;t be fairer in some way to have all dogs shown in the same way (either stacked or not) for all breeds... :-)

I think then you'd also have to make sure all handlers were at the same level as you could also argue it's unfair for somebody with lots of experience to be in the same class as somebody at their first show. :) Although personally I'd much rather see all dogs free standing as I think it looks nicer, but at the end of the day it's up to the handler to make the dog look as good as possible, and there is no rule saying one breed HAS to be free stood or HAS to be stacked, it's just tradition really. With some breeds (Golden Retrievers for instance) you will see both methods.

I don't think it's a problem with group classes, but I do sometimes feel at a disadvantage in a handling class. I'm just standing there waggling a titbit at my freestanding breed to keep the ears up, with all the other people stringing them up, stretching and stacking and fiddling with tails etc, and I can't help but feel the judge won't see me doing any 'handling' because I already trained the dog to stand outside the ring.... :-)

Our breed is shown all sorts of ways head on, side on, 45%, free standing and stacked.... Id say show your dog whatever way you want, showing styles are fad followed what I mean is that if a handler stands their dog in a certain way and their dog wins alot then people will give that stand a go and so a new style within a breed starts.

I've recently spent a lot of time around the Rottie rings and was there around them all day at Crufts. Some of the handlers have adopted the American way of showing them, so basically stacking them and stringing them up. In the main the British way of showing them is free standing them, which I do think does look better on a personal note.
I think if any judge is worth its salt then they will see beyond how a dog is standing or being stood by its handler.

Also the same goes for Bernese, some get really strung up, to the point I do wonder why? I see some handlers free stand them, though they have often come from other free standing breeds. I think you need to look at your dog as a whole and show them off to the best ability you have and if it means that stacking it helps the dog, then why not do it.

There doesn't appear to be any hard and fast rules in handling in the breed rings...As for handling rings, never even attempted those

I've recently spent a lot of time around the Rottie rings and was there around them all day at Crufts. Some of the handlers have adopted the American way of showing them, so basically stacking them and stringing them up

This is happening with some Malinois exhibitors now and I have to say it looks AWFUL! The dog ends up with a neck like a giraffe and also the body stretched out to look like a Dachshund's in length. (The breed should be square!) I don't think it's a coincidence those people don't do much at the shows.....even though it is the American way for the breed. Again it's showing your dog to its best advantage, isn't it, and making body parts appear worse than they are certainly isn't. :)

when i was going to show my friends Lhasa i was reading up on showing and every book/site i read said they are shown free standing but when i actualy went to the shows everyone i watched was stacking them.