Hi all, Ive had my bitch scanned at the vets and they have given me this wormer. Its one single chewy tablet to give 2wks before whelping and thats it? Nothing else until shes due 3/4 mths whatever it is later. I asked the nurse to check this and they said its right.

My girl is day 43 and im a bit unsure whether to give it her, could it be not enough or even quite potent with it being one dosage? Its a huge tablet for such a little dog lol.
Has anyone else used Milbemax i carnt find any info on here.

Thanks
Anne.

I always use Milbemax, though not the chewable tablet. My girls are wormed during pregnancy with it and again when I worm the pups afterwards. In all the years I have used it I have never seen a worm in a pup. (mind you sometimes Mum is quicker than me so possibly she scoffs them...Yuck...) The tiny puppy tablets are so easy to pop down a puppies neck, and with my big breed Mum is easily conned with a larger table (Or 2) hidden in some pate.
Is there no instruction leaflet in with the pills?
Aileen

The makers page http://www.ah.novartis.com/products/en/milbemax_cat.shtml does nto indicate for pregnancy, and as far as I was aware the only wormer licensed for use in pregnancy was panacur given at a reduced dogs (0.25) from day 40 to 2 days post whelping

Special Precautions and Warnings

Studies with milbemycin oxime indicate that the margin of safety in certain dogs of Collie or related breeds is less than in other breeds. In these dogs, the recommended dose should be strictly observed.

The tolerance of MILBEMAX in young puppies from these breeds has not been investigated.

The NOAH page: http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Novartis_Animal_Health_UK_Ltd/Milbemax_chewable_tablets_for_small_dogs_and_puppies___Milbemax_chewable_tablets_for_dogs/-44249.html

Milbemax can be used in pregnant and lactating bitches and in breeding animals.

but no mention is given about it being active against transference of worm larva to puppies.

This page http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Novartis_Animal_Health_UK_Ltd/Milbemax_chewable_tablets_for_small_dogs_and_puppies___Milbemax_chewable_tablets_for_dogs/-44255.html on length of availability in teh bloodstream woudl seem to indicate that it won't prevent transference to puppies as it wears off too quickly.

If the vet prescribed it I imagine it should be OK. Certainly easier than the daily panacur rate. I admit I am nervous about anything during pregnancy so as I have always used Panacur and been happy with it, I would be scared to change but I gather there are others on here that have had a problem with Panacur so ????
I had some Milbemax but have left it in the cupboard. May give to Mum when I do the puppies first wormer.
Diane

Hazenaide - If the vet prescribed it I imagine it should be OK.

Oh how I wish I had your faith!! ;-)

fushang - personally I wouldn't touch Millbemax with a barge pole, but then I have a breed that it could be potentially fatal for. If you have a breed that is a collie or collie cross (Rough, Border, Bearded, doesn't matter) then unless you know for sure (by DNA testing) that it does not have the MDR-1 gene, then Millbemax should be a no no. In my experience few vets are aware of this potential problem.

As per Brainless, I understood Panacur to be the only wormer licensed to use during pregnancy.

I definitely second this - beware of the effect of the active molecule in Milebemax in collie breeds :-(

I agree with Trialist. I've just had 2 of mine mdr1 tested & got 1 -/- result & 1 +/- result. Luckily my Vets are mdr1 aware & results are now on the dogs vet notes. I'd go with the Panacur 10% :)

> I understood Panacur to be the only wormer licensed to use during pregnancy

We had Milbemax dispensed for a pregnant bitch two years ago. This time when we asked for it, another vet at the same practice said she didn't think it was licenced for use with pregnant bitches. We said we had used it two years ago so she went to look it up. And it is licenced for pregnancy. She said she had learnt something!

Our two bitches are a large working breed and a toy breed. No ill effects in either.

I read the notes on the product data sheet and as far as I can see it is licensed for use in pregnancy but it says nothing (that I can understand) about it being EFFECTIVE AGAINST Toxocara Larva and preventing transmission to the pups, which for me is the whole point of worming in pregnancy.

> it says nothing (that I can understand) about it being EFFECTIVE AGAINST Toxocara Larva

Seems weird then that a vet would prescribe it as a wormer in pregnancy really. Still, we didn't see any worms in either litter, but then I suppose I never do. All our dogs are wormed regularly pregnant or not.

One thing the first vet said was that it's very gentle.

> Seems weird then that a vet would prescribe it as a wormer in pregnancy really.

Well it would get rid of any worms she had, so from that point of view would be effective, but then for that it is better to worm before mating.

I think I'll check it out next time I'm at the vet's. Doesn't seem a lot of point in using something that will only do half the job.  Present pups are 2 weeks old now and I'm using Panacur on them (not bought from the vet!) 

Just looked up the datasheets for both adn under uses it ahs:

Milbemax
Uses
In dogs: treatment of mixed infections by adult cestodes (my emphasis in bold) and nematodes of the following species:
Cestodes: Dipylidium caninum, Taenia spp., Echinococcus spp., Mesocestoides spp
Nematodes: Anclystoma caninum, Toxocara canis, Toxascaris leonina, Trichuris vulpis.
Crenosoma vulpis(reduction of the level of infection),

Panacur
Pregnant dogs
For the treatment of pregnant dogs to reduce prenatal infections with Toxocara canis and the transfer of T. canis and Ancylostoma caninum to the pups via the milk.Other
Also for the treatment of dogs infected with lungworm Oslerus (Filaroides) osleri or protozoa Giardia spp., and cats infected with lungworm Aelurostrongylus abstrusus.
Also has an ovicidal effect on nematode eggs.

I've a good mind to print that out and take it in next time I go. They are used to me there!

> I've just had 2 of mine mdr1 tested

Where did you get it done? I found one place by googling MDR1 that charges £70-ish but I seem to remember it can be done for less, perhaps by sending to the USA?

I think the test can be carried out for around £50.

Esme - irrespective of what vets may or may not suggest (sadly, and I know this to be true from personal experience - I can provide the bills and the heartache - vets are not always well informed), let's not forget that if your dog has sensitivity to Ivermectin (ie collie breeds) then it can and is proven to be fatal. The only way you will know if you collie/collie x is not sensitive to Ivermectin is to have a DNA test carried out!

www.genomia.cz do MDR1 testing for around £50 ...cheaper to avoid the problem drug in my opinion!

Yes it was Genomia. I first contacted Laboklin, who set me the buccal cheek swabs, but they wanted £70 per dog. I had my results from Genomia in a week.

> www.genomia.cz do MDR1 testing for around £50 ...cheaper to avoid the problem drug in my opinion!

100% in agreement here.

Having used Panacur 10% for many years on pregnant bitches, I've never thought of trying anything else. But, although I have toys, I also have Collies, and just wouldn't have Milbemax in the house.

www.genomia.cz do MDR1 testing for around £50 ...cheaper to avoid the problem drug in my opinion!

Yes that would be the case if Collies were only affected by one drug, but sadly there's quite a long list of 'no-no' drugs, which can be seen on various sites.

> Yes that would be the case if Collies were only affected by one drug, but sadly there's quite a long list of 'no-no' drugs, which can be seen on various sites.

This is why I was enquiring about the test.
There is more info here:
http://www.ashgi.org/articles/mdr1.htm
and the Laboklin site here has a list of the drugs:
http://www.laboklin.co.uk/laboklin/showGeneticTest.jsp?testID=8032

Dogs which only carry the MDR1 gene, as well as those who have two copies of it, can also have sensitivity.

Thanks for this info, I was only aware of Ivermectin and Milbemycin ...

> let's not forget that if your dog has sensitivity to Ivermectin (ie collie breeds) ....

Sure, agreed. I don't have Collie type breeds and would be much more cautious if I did. But there may be reasons for folk with non-collie types to use Milbemax, we've had no problems using it. And while I take your point that some vets are not all we would like them to be, not all vets are ignorant either.

Good luck to Fushang with whatever you decide to do.

Thankyou for the replies, i told myself if im not sure of something im not to do it now, so ive brought some panacur for my girl.
I can use them later on my other dogs - they are not collie breeds.

Just to remind people that it's not just the 'collies' but anything with related parentage - so all collies, shelties, german shepherds, lancashire heelers, tollers, kelpies, australian shepherds, welsh sheepdogs etc MAY be affected and should be careful with the use of ivermectin related products (including milbemax etc).

Didn't I read somewhere that it is herding breeds as a whole that can be affected?  Has made me wonder about my own breed as that is their main job in Spain.

> Just to remind people that it's not just the 'collies' but anything with related parentage - so all collies, shelties, german shepherds, lancashire heelers, tollers, kelpies, australian shepherds, welsh sheepdogs etc MAY be affected and should be careful with the use of ivermectin related products (including milbemax etc).

So far no toller has come back as having the faulty gene so I think we may be ok on this one!!

Also found out that when I went to a seminar, that Silken Windhounds could be affected.

The first link I gave in my post above lists MDR1 gene breeds:
    * Australian Shepherds
    * Collies (Rough and Smooth)
    * English Shepherds
    * McNabbs
    * Miniature Australian Shepherds
    * Old English Sheepdogs
    * German Shepherd Dogs
    * Long-haired Whippets
    * Shetland Sheepdogs
    * Silken Windhounds
    * Mix-breeds with any of the above in their background

and the laboklin link (second link) gives a slightly different list:
*American White Shepherd
*Australian Shepherd
*Bobtail
*Border collie
*Collie
*English shepherd
*German Shepherd
*Longhaired Whippet
*McNab Shepherd (McNab Border Collie)
*Old English Sheepdog
*Rough Collie
*Shetland Sheepdog (Sheltie)
*Silken Windhound
*Smooth Collie