Hi

My old girl, almost 14yrs has possibly a tumour in her bladder.  The vet 'felt it' after some digging in.  I took her as i thought she had a water infection either from being in season, she gets these from being old now so used to that or thought she had a touch of incontinence.

The vet offered PTS, don't think that's an option just yet, x-rays and opened up, couldn't garantee that he could remove it.  He's given me AB's and Metacalm, he said the metacalm is good at controling tumours?  Has anyone else heard this. 

i don't think I'll go down the route of opening her up at her age unless extremly beneficial to her, not at her age.

Has anyone else had experience of this that could offer some advice on what they did or if i should alter her diet, life expectancy ect or using the drup in that way.  The vet did say it could be benign but unlikely??

She well in herself, eat, drinking and getting about, still wants her walk and to play.  i did my Reiki on her before the vets and she's stayed dry since and been able to get down, I made the vets appointment as she was going in the house maybe from desparate for two days and couldn't keep up with getting her dry and unsmelly.

Thanks

No experience of bladder tumours im afraid,but having recently lost my old girl aged 15,from lymph cancer,I wanted to offer support as this can be a lonely time for you.Someone on here told me to love her,and basically make the most of the time left,which is what I did.Lets hope it is benign,she might be ok for agesyet!Sorry Im not much help,but I wish you and your lovely girl all the best.

Sorry I don't have any experience of this , however I've just had my young girl have two tumours removed . I don't think I'd chose to operate for a tumour which is deep inside at an old age , as the recovery could be quite hard. I think if she were mine I'd keep herb comfy and pain free .
It sounds like your girl is still fine in herself if shes eating and playing , long may it continue . x

Hi

I have heard of metacam being used to control bladder tumours before. 

Good luck to you and your girl.

h

Hi thanks for replies.  I've just done a little reading and it does look like it can be shrunk a little and bleeding controlled.  I'm not sure if it bleeding myself as she's in season but the vet thought some of it could be from there.  Her urine is clear as a bell, off the kitchen floor anyway.  Surgury would only give an extra 6 months if that's how long she's got.

As you say its best to make her comfy, she was like enjoying the pups company this morning.

i'll try and research the metacalm a little more if not there's some chemo drugs (not sure about that) maybe to consider.

Sorry to hear your sad news. I am going thru a similar problem with an elderly 14+yrs just now. she is also on metacam  to ease her. I would not consider operation an such an old dog. am just pleased I have her back to spoil her for whatever time we have left with her. doesnt help you, just wanted to share. 

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Oh it soes and it helps to know i'm not being mean putting her through an op.  i don't think its fair to do that and its giving me the reassurance to to it. If she was a young dog and it took it cured then i would.

I can't believe the vet said its an option, money i suppose as its not life saving/extending.

For now she's not in pain or sleeping any more than she should (she's too nosy for the pups)

Please dont feel mean about not allowing an op-when I was offered chemo as an option for Flyss, someone on here pointed out,that it would be far better spending her last days in her own home,being loved and spoiled,than being frightened and pulled about at the vets,no matter how kind they are,and it was definately the best way for us-she probably would have only gained weeks.

Very true.  From what i read today it would only give a matter of months if lucky and part of that would be spent recovering or going through it.  she doesn't need making poorly, like you same make it count and comfy.  can't spoil her any more than I do :)

Had to fetch the Matacalm from the vet today so will see if any difference, fingers crossed.  He didn't have it in on Friday, should have gone to my old vets.

fingers crossed it will help-give her a gentle hug from me.

tumor on the blodder doesnt sound very good but I think the best move will be to let the vet open the dog up now untill the tumor is not too big and try to remove it before is too late. And yes metacam is good for blodder tumors

I wouldn't be opening her up if she was mine. Bless her hope she feels better and it can be managed without reaching for the scalpel. x

What is a blodder Tumor?

I would also suggest looking at all options in the light of the age of this dog is very important in any decisions on treatment and the risks associated with major surgery and the quality of life and expectancy.

The main thing would to be make sure the dog is not suffering and is pain free :-)

Thanks for the replies.  I thought about it but she's a few weeks off 14 and nor sure if that's a good option and it only gives an estimated six months extra.  would she even survive it.

i would be interested how the Metacalm works on the tumour, always too curious me, and what would happen if didn't touch the tumour.  Would i ahve to make the decision for her or would her body react like a cancer patient?

When Dakko was 13 he had lots of lumps and bumps (no symptoms or pain) and the vet advised us just to leave well alone and let him enjoy the rest of his life. If your girl isn't in any pain or discomfort then why put her through an op? You are doing exactly what most of us would with an elderly dog.

I agree, the age depends on the breed but you have to allow for the length of time it would take for the elderly dog to fully recover from the operation and then allow for some natural deterioration and estimate if the length of happy life left would be enough to compensate for the pain and discomfort from the operation.

Old dogs do seem to manage to recover from operations well but if they are in their last year or so and not in pain, if they are still enjoying life and can still eat, then you are left with the decision if it you agree to an operation or leave well alone - in most cases I would leave well alone.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">to allow for the length of time it would take for the elderly dog to fully recover from the operation and then allow for some natural deterioration and estimate if the length of happy life left would be enough to compensate for the pain and discomfort from the operation. <br />

I agree, why spend her time recovering in pain when she isn't now. 

Out interest, she's meant to have blood in her urine, its clear as a bell, I'm wondering if he's wrong as he didn't scan just felt.  Wishful thinking maybe.

Now I could be wrong but I would have thought that a blood test and a urine test once the infection is cleared should be able to tell if the cell count suggested a tumour and it there is a chance that it may be  a carcinoma.

Perhaps it would be worth asking for a second opinion as it could be just an infection or a bladder stone, even as you say a figment of your vets imagination.

> xmlns=>Perhaps it would be worth asking for a second opinion as it could be just an infection or a bladder stone, even as you say a figment of your vets imagination.

This has been niggling me, not that there's nothing there but that it could be something else, she's picked up no end on the meds unless she's meant to.  I went to a different vets to start changing them all over to one.

Not knowing doggy anatomy very well, he felt it deep in where her undertuck is, not that you can define it very well now lol, she's a GR and loves her food.  I take her back next Friday so maybe take her there again or go to my old vet who seen her sinse a pup 9long story why changing over)

Hope it was not my reply that niggled you, I just think to make a diagnosis and suggest PTS on palpation alone would need more skill than the average vet has. 

Understand that you will not wish to change vet but you could ask for another opinion or for a referal after all it is in reality a matter of live and death. Your vet should not expect you to take any action until you have a firm and belevable diagnosis - and no action at all until you are aware your happy bitch is suffering discomfort.

No not you but the vet diagnosis started to make me think a little more, i think as i didn't want it but getting over my shock and watching my girl i'm not sure.  There's only one vet i changed to so i think will go back to my old vet just keep away from certain ones.  They can at least ultrasound her.

Maybe the medications working at that's why she doing ok, i can'r wish for better at the moment.  She happy and doing what dogs do.

I am confident that you will do what is the best for your girl Relklangel, agree it would be a good thing to have an ultrasound and perhaps know what you are dealing with. Whatever it turns out to be whilst she is doing OK and feeling happy then I like you would rather let things ride.

No need to change your vet just tell them you are going to your old vet to ask for their opinion, they will not mind and will let them have and relevant information.

Hi,
Just wondered how your girl was getting on.  Am in a similar position but with a different diagnosis, my 14.5 year old girl has supsected bladder stones (for the 4th time in her life), she also suffers from pancreatitis.  Her bloodwork is normal so I am now going to get her scanned to check there are stones.  Then I have to make my decision as to whether to let them operate on her again.  she sleeps for 20 hours a day, but is perky the rest of the time.

Anyway, just wanted to see how you were doing?

Hi

Sorry to hear about your dog, She's doing ok at the minute due to go back to the vets this week, put it off on Saturday as i wanted to see how she went without the AB's.

Her season's finished now, it was an abrupt stop so i don't think if a tumour is there that its bleeding (well for me to know) through.  She had the AB's and escaped her usual water infection and has really perked up, i noticed this after two days.  I still give the metacam and her joint suppliments.  She can sleep alot buck can be a nosey little tike as well; i think the pups are keeping her attention so awake more.  She acts like a nanny to them, bless her.

I'm unsure whether to have her scanned to confirm the diagnosis or stay in the dark.  i think i need to know and deal with it.  I'm not going to have her operated on as the recovery is problably longer than she would make it if it is that.

I would ask you vet to look into laser treatment for a bladder stone, its non ivasive and i think they can give medicine to break it up and come out with the urine.  My cat several years ago had loads of them and blocked his piework up, the gave medicine and a cathiter for a few days to drain the bladder.

Good luck and will let you know what the vet says.

Thanks for your response, I am awaiting for my two vets to liaise with each other.  I think it depends on the type of bladder stone as to whether they can blast them or not.  Her last lot had to be taken out "manually", here's hoping that this time it will be less invasive (that is if there are stones!)

Will keep everything crossed for you.

Well Lydia was operated on at 13.5 but unlike your girl she was still very lively and only slept around 9 hours a day.  As you know she lived until she was 15 and only went downhill with a stomach tumour 3 weeks before I had to have her PTS, up until then she was doing brilliantly.

If I could say she'd lead a very healthy & active life it would be different.  Since she was 2 and a half she had various things wrong with her from an unexplained virus that nearly killed her, through heart murmer (sp) which comes & goes mysteriously, bronchititis, pancreatitis & of course various bladder stone incidents!  I will just see what the vet has to say & take it from there.

If she was a cat, she'd have used up all her 9 lives, every time I think it's time to say goodbye she has a miraculous recovery. :-)

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its strange how that happens, just before I took my girl to the vets i was thinking this might getting to the end of the road, she bounced like a baby and was dry as anything after me permenently chaseing after her with a mop (not for her personally lol) and her dripping she went dry just like that.  i couldn't believe it.

Will keep it all crossed for you also that she doesn't need an op, she's oviously meant to be here, otherwise Her ailments would have seen her off before now.

Just a little update on my girl.

She's doing remarkably well.  I'm still giving her the matcam and nothing else apart from homeopathic remidy and suplements for her creaky joints

She doesn't appear in pain and sailed through her season with having the AB's, no urine infection.  She's quite spritely. xx

thats good to hear :-)

It's good to hear that things are improving. I had a dog a few years ago with bladder cancer and one of the first symptoms was straining when she tried to urinate, in fact at first I thought she may be constipated. The blood in the urine and frequent urine infections followed. She had a scan but that didn't show anything. Metacam is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug and I don't think it's clear how it works in bladder cancer, Piroxicam is a similar drug and from what I could find out is more widely used in canine bladder cancer but metacam is kinder on the stomach.
http://www.cancercompass.com/message-board/message/all,1543,183.htm   I found out quite a lot of information from this discussion forum where there's loads of messages from dog owners with bladder cancer. I regret to this day allowing my vet to open her up to see what was wrong, he just wouldn't believe me when I told him she must have bladder cancer, he just said it was very rare even though her breed was prone to it. He phoned me while she was on the operating table to say her bladder was like cardboard and it would be the kindest thing not to wake her up.

REally pleased to hear that she's doing ok.  My girl is also doing really well, spring chicken (she caught a rabbit yesterday & ate it yuck!)  she's got a bladder stone but not causing her problems.  Can't put her under GA & they won't blast or do keyhole on her.  She doesn't seem bothered so I'll leave her for now.

That's great news for you.

Bladder stones can sometime break up naturally so keeping it all crossed for you, she sounds like its not bothering her.  Tell her to let you cook the rabbit next time :) :)     I have one in the fridge ready to cook.

Thanks also for the link will have a good look through it.  Sorry to hear about your experience, one reason why i won't operate unless an emergency dictates it.  Can ~i ask how long long your dog managed with the condition.  We're looking good at present but not sure how long for.  She's really showing her age (14 now) so can't grumble at that for a GR.  Her urine is very strong smeling with no infection or pyo.

Just a little update on my old girl.

She's doing really well at the minute (fingers crossed it continues).  Took her off the metacam for a month or so to give her a break from it, just put her back on it.  The vet has just given her Tramodol for her joints when i said she had half an Ibruprofen to help her after a long journey and a dip in the sea.  She ran round the next morning and even greeted me at the bottom the stairs the next morning wagging her tail.  She has some homeopathic drops for incontinence and her joints, unfortunately left them at home.  Still in her system at the minute so managed without them.

She loved it on the beach and in the sea, had a job getting her out.  She then sat on the edge facing in and let the sea wash onto her, the grin on her face was funny.  Had to almost drag her out lol.  I did get upset coming off thinking it was her last time but might let her have one more go now her tablets are helping, she managed a nice little walk and will buy her a boogie board to come off in style.  if you here of mad woman on sandbanks that'll be me lol :)