Is it right that you shouldn't mate a bitch under 12 months? I know a toy breeder who is a member of the abs that has a bitch pregnant that's only 10 1/2 months old.

The kc website isn't very clear and I can't find the rules of this scheme. I know the kc won't register the pups of any bitch mated before she's 1.

I hope this makes sense? I'm infuriated by it personally. It's making my head spin.

Report her to the ABS team, they want to know these things.

"the Kennel Club will not accept an application to register a litter when:

a) The bitch has already whelped six litters, or

b) The bitch was under a year old at the date of mating, or

c) The bitch has already reached the age of eight years at the date of whelping, or

d) Offspring of any mating between father and daughter, mother and son or brother and sister, save in exceptional circumstance, for scientifically proven welfare reasons."

That is disgusting, no bitch should be mated until at least 2 years old. We refuse to let our stud dogs near anything under 2 and give the owner of the bitch a good talking to.

This is from an Accredited Breeder...what hope is there??? As someone else has said this person needs reporting if this is deffinately true. There are many who are not AB's who think this is bad news...me being one of them

I know this person so I know she is def a ab. It says so on the kc website also. I have emailed the kc and they said I have to put it in writing which I shall do this evening and send off first class in the morning.

They have a lot of litters a year, I know of 4 already this year, this being one of them. The bitch is due early may I believe. She's not 1 till the end of may.

Poor little dog, it breaks my heart.

Highlights the need for a requirement similar to some countries that all mating must be registered to the KC within 15 days or so, and all litters must be notified to the kc within 10 days of whelping, with the KC requiring veterinary certification of birth if it is close to the 12 month minimum age for the bitch.  We had a case with a breeder who had a litter not many years ago and the bitch whelped (they said) on the 63rd day - 65 days after she turned 12 months!  Now when those "puppies" came out in the ring that year they were amazingly mature for 6 months, and continued to look a good 2 - 3 months forward of all the others of the supposed same age for a couple of years. 

A chap i know had a litter from a bitch who was 8 months old and from a stud of 11 months old , he is on the ABS , the litter was registered and he is still on the ABS.
Unless the KC start doing something about all this , it will stay the same.
I don't think the KC ever stick to their own rules about anything

Peanuts

They won't be able to KC reg the puppies as no pups can be registered from bitches mated under a year old, whether ABS or anyone else.

Unfortunately it does seem that even unregistered toy breed puppies can be sold for large sums :(

The only way the ABS can work is if infringements are reported.

If only that were true. The K.C. are very good at allowing "extenuating circumstances" so I bet they register them.

So what im seeing here in writing is the breeder in question is using the AB scheme to make him/her look like a very safe bet on the potential buyers eyes?

Im annoyed....people look at that symbol as a guarentee of certainty,like my nan recently did a search on the ab sceme and although i said it means nothing nan she still continued to belive in the kc that they'must' be the 'very best' because of the title.

if you dont report these peple nothing will ever change

I have wrote a letter to the kc with details of the person in question, the address and phone number. I can't possibly make it any easier for the kc to find them. I really do hope they do something about it.

> no bitch should be mated until at least 2 years old.

Not a totally fair comment.  It definitely depends on breed.  While I don't, in any way, shape or form, condone bitches mated while still puppies, I have a lot of experience of one particular breed.  If a bitch is not pregnant by 3 years old, I will have her spayed, simply because I know she will have a far worse time, and a far higher chance of a section.

I don't make my statement lightly.  I have been working on a self whelping line for years.  And I like my bitches to be mated around 18 months old.  This is a breed that is sexually mature at 6 months.  Bear in mind that my girls are normally spayed at 4 years old.  All the people that I know that have been daft enough to breed from a bitch (for the first time) at 3 years old, have had problems.

Whatever people say about breeding age, I stand by my experience of my own breed, and know what I am talking about.  While I have had people on CD disagree - they have never bred the same breed, and don't have the experience to justify their opinion.

Great post, I think it depends on the breed, and the individual within a breed.  Some breeds mature quicker than othes, and some individuals within a breed mature quicker than others.

I remain disappointed with the ABS, not sure it's going to ever take off if it doesn't start to act on this sort of incident.....

I read in dog World this week that over 200 people have been removed from the scheme so reporting works.

The site I reported (to do with a a weeping variety of tree and small countryside dwelling) still has springerdors available, and the ABS logo emblazoned across their front page.  So not that effective unfortunately :(

But are they still listed as ABS members, they may well be using the ABS logo illegitimately, which is an acknowledged problem.  Just because they say they are ABS does not mean this is so.

Difficult to say unless you ask the KC direct, as you can opt out of being listed :(

In the BRS it has KCAB by the name of any litter where the breeder is on the ABS.  Doesn't help casual puppy buyer, but will allow people who get the BRS to monitor and report.

I was going to agree with saying it should be a minimum of 2 years, but I shall bow to your personal breed experience. Perhaps a blanket minimum of 18 months? I can't imagine any breed needing mating younger than that. In my breed it should be 2.5 years, but I know a LOT of people who approve it earlier.

Totally the same with my breed, the bitches on the smaller end of the scale I aim to mate them around 18 months old on their 3 season whilst the pelvis is still at it's most suple, as a breeder you endeavour to do what is right by your dogs and for some breeds that is not waiting to long for them to have puppies as the possibility of problems can increase the older they get.