im sure most of you are awear that i have a 10wk Newfoudland bitch Cru'Ella.
My question is how do i make sure she thinks i am pack leader rather than my husband? he works nights and will not be with her half as much as me which is why i need to be "master"~hate to see big dogs overpowering owners !
Any little tricks??

Do the alpha roll with your husband in front of the pup :D. *sorry, couldn't resist*. Happy New Year to you and Good Luck with the pup :).

Taylor

as much as i love the dog .. couldnt do it ! lol
i make sure that i train her mostly , and that i roll her over ( herd thats a sign of dominance??)
Funny thing though , when Saul ( hubby) play fights with the kids , Ella goes mad barks and really tells him off~also when he play fights with me.But if i play fight,she tells me off if i do it with the kids..but not Saul ??
Stumped me.Does that mean she thinks Sauls the boss and can look after himself...or that im the boss and lets me get on with it ??
.......maybe she thinks "god! how many play fights?dumb ass family"!!

I have 2 bitches and 2 dogs, Mother and pups from two litters, boys litter brothers. Oldest bitch adores my son best, respects everyone else. 2nd bitch loves me, respects everyone else. One dog is MINE, the othe my husband's first and foremost. I'm the one who feeds them, does most of the exercising etc. However the human members of the pack are clearly considered superior, then comes mum dog (aged 10), then daughter (aged 7), then boys aged 3.

Luckily we can all rub along in a pack together.

pmsl @Taylor :D :D
Ali :)

I am the boss with the dogs, but cleo loves my hubby more than me, :( when he is home i dont get a look in.

I have found that some bitches have a closer bond with men than with women. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with dominance. But that's just my experience, even in rescue bitches who were badly mistreated by men.

Taylor

I have 2 newfs and 2 terriers they all live in the house as one big happy family , all bar one thinks that i am god and that is one of my terriers but they will all do what either of us asks, i would put it all down to training from a young age they have there pecking order with me and hubby at the top.
Good luck

It's not a problem Zoe. Humans, all humans in the family pack are above the dogs in pecking order and that will very soon become to be an undisputed fact. IT WILL HAPPEN!

Regards, John

Its very true.

My 9 month old Boxer girl (Ruby) loves my husband to bits. She craves my attention when he is at work, but as soon as he is home, she doesn't want to know.
Its the same when my mum and dad come round to visit. She is all for my dad. Boxers love to touch. They have to be leaning/laying on you the whole time. M,y dad comes round and he hasd this big ole boxer draped all over him :D
Ali :)

Hiya,
I'll re-post the Alpha tips i posted a while ago for you, i hope they help, sorry if it is long but well worth the read :) Oh and i cant take the credit, these were compiled by my friend Doris who has malamutes :)

ALPHA TRAINING

You can start with one or two and work your way up as they become routine. The main thing is consistency! If you make a rule, you have to enforce it every time. Alpha training works so beautifully with young pups. They never get the control and thus don't fight it.

1. Alpha always eats first. Either change the dog's feeding time or grab a little bite of something before feeding your dog.(We make added advantages for the whole family by letting the dog have the last bite of whatever we are eating. He has to wait patiently. This way even my kids get Alpha! We also feed our cat first.)
2. Alphas always go through doorways first. This includes all doorways INSIDE the house. Either call the dog back to you or take her back and make her wait.
3. NO FREE LUNCH This means the dog has to do something for everything it gets. Most people have the dog sit, but you can also use down or come. This should include meals, treats, walks, pets, and anytime the dog wants out.
4. Alphas always have the highest position. This means don't let the dog on the furniture, especially the bed. While training, don't lay on the floor and DON"T ever let the dog stand over or on you. Don't let the dog put it's paws on your lap and stand with it's head higher.
5. Alphas always have clear passage. This means you teach the dog to move out of your way instead of walking around. Depending on temperament, you can walk up about a foot from the dog and say move and then keep walking. The dog should get out of the way. If this doesn't work at first, try luring with a treat or toy until she learns the command.
6. Alphas make the rules. This is probably the hardest! You have to show the dog that you decide when to play or pet her. Our rule was for every 3 times Kodiak asked to play or be petted, the 4th time we said no. You need to also stop a game before she is ready every few times. Don't wait for the dog to walk off and leave you
7 No rough play-At least until the dog is 12 to 18 mos and KNOWS it's place in the pack, you should avoid tug of war and wrestling. In dog terms (especially for young dogs), this is a way to test the other members of the pack to see who is vulnerable. In trying to let the dog have fun, we end up sending the wrong message with these games.
8 Alphas decide where and when to go. Use the tether(umbilical) system for bonding and Alpha training. When you are home, put a 6 ft leash on the dog and hook it to you. I used a leather belt and put the loop of the leash through it and buckled it around my waist even if I didn't have belt loops. To begin with, tell the dog when you are going to move. This teaches the dog to pay attention to you, that you are in control, and to wait patiently by your side. It helps a lot to talk to them and BE HAPPY! Make her feel she is helping by coming along. This worked great with Kodiak and now I can tie him to me anytime my hands are full and he follows right along.
9 Insist the dog obey first time, every time! This is probably one of the most important for independent breeds. Do not repeat yourself! Do not assume the dog did not hear you(they have excellent hearing for the things they are interested in!). Give a command, wait a few seconds, then put the dog in position or make him do what you said. If a pup is never allowed to ignore you, it will make training SO much easier and faster.

THANK U !!!!

Thats quite ok :D I followed these simple rules and my Malamute, now 2yrs is very happy with her Beta position in our pack :)

There are a few good books on pack leadership such as John Fisher's "Think Dog" which is a really good read and explains such a lot.

However there are a few interesting bits of research popping up now which are making people question much of what has always been taken for granted :) such as the "Alpha always eats first".

This understanding was originally based on wolf packs, but captive wolf packs which (it is now known) behave quite differently to true wild wolf packs. (dogs aren't wolves anyway, but we are talking about pack leadership based on an understanding of wolf behaviour and translating this to dogs in the home.)

I was really interested to learn that for example, in the true wild pack, if there is plenty of grub, all will eat together. If there is not enough food for all, it is in fact the pups that are allowed to eat first

This does make sense as it ensures the genes have a chance to live on and be passed on in their turn.

Dont get me wrong, I know the pack leadership application does give the dog security if done properly and the dog will know where it stands. But I feel sometimes far too much emphasis is placed on dominance and not enough on the actual relationship. This can then lead to new owners in particular getting really worried if the dog sleeps on their bed, or if it does eat before them :) :D

It is in fact totally possible to break all the rules and yet have a really responsive and well behaved dog. In fact i'm really "bad" in that I always feed my dogs before me, simplu because I prefer to - we can then all settle as a family rather than having to make the dog's dinner just after I am stuffed from mine :D

I'm not saying pack leadership is a bad thing, just that it's important not to panic if a few things go a bit awry from time to time :)

Lindsay

some good points.
I think ill adopt bits from both! as Saul works nights we have strange eating patterns any way , Saul grabs a bite whenever and eats late at work , i eat around 8is(infront of eastenders) and the girls have tea around 530 ish! im thinking of letting the girls eat first~then feed the dog

Same in our house ..kids eat at about 5 and then we often don't eat until 7ish. What we do is feed the kids and then call Hudson into the kitchen ..we have a small biscuit or something in front of him and then feed him ...even though we eat later on he has seen us eating before him ;)

Melody

Sounds like a good idea; I'm sure whatever you decide will work well :)

Lindsay

This is the first time we've seen this site and used it. We've got a 10 wk old b/collie pup who's great apart from his aggression. He's growled and snapped at me and my other half quite a few times now. So far he's not done it to the kids but I want to get him to stop doing it now before it gets any worse. It's usually after we've told him off by shouting at him or when he knows he's done wrong, like chewing catalogues. We read somewhere that when he does it to pin him down on his side until he lies still so he knows who's the boss but it doesn't seem to be working. He's really clever and picks up commands quickly, apart from not jumping up when you're sitting down. If anyone has any ideas we'd be really grateful.

If he growls at you when you shout at him it's because he's terrified!!! Stop it! Don't shout! Puppies (and children) are very sensitive and shouting is BAD!

Catalogues aren't important. If you think they are, put them out of his reach. People are more intelligent than dogs. Don't give him the opportunity to be "naughty". All he's doing is exploring the world - children use hands, puppies use teeth.

my 10 wk newf growled at me today~it wasnt a loud growl and was because i was telling her off.We had visitors and she was very naughty! barking/jumping up and biteing.The telling off occured after she bit my mums hand ~ we told her "NO!" and she did not like it~nipped at me ~ but i held her muzzle~as i have been doing successfully till now.She then growled.
im very unnerved , we've done our best to possitively tell her off~no smacks , no shouting,we dont tell her off for toilet accidents/chewing etc~only the biteing and jumpimg.So what happened !!????

I didn't mean shouting literally - sorry. Should have said tell off. It's not just catalogues, it's furniture and things that can't be moved. If we tell him "no" and he doesn't want to stop that's when he starts to growl, then if we tell him "no" again then he snaps. He is teething at the moment so I am making some allowances for him being a bit out of sorts but I don't want him turning into a vicious dog. He even went for the vet when she was examining him and there was nothing wrong with him. He really is a lovely pup, he's fine with everyone else, like butter wouldn't melt.

He is scared of the vet thats for certain can't tell you with words so quick snap says this is my space leave me alone I don't know how understanding your vet is but pop in visits to the surgery just to say hello gradually making him more accustomed to the sights sounds and smells will reasure him.As to the chewing each time you catch him chewing something hes not supposed to remove him from item and replace it with something hes allowed to chew if he snaps put him out you could also use bitter apple spray available from good pet shops on items you want to protect.I wouldn't say he is a dominant puppy in fact probably the reverse he sound nervous.Best Wishes Gillian

I agree he does sound nerouvs, but don't forget that any dog especially from a herding breed will have a very strong instinct to come back at you - it is what they would do if say, a cow or a sheep was getting too "strong", they cannot help it, it is inbred.

Do get a copy of "Understanding the Border Collie" by Carol Price, this is such a good book, explains all about the collie's instincts and how to control and channel them in the domestic environment :) I would recommend it for any BC owner, it is full of common sense; also has humourous pictures to lighten it all up :)

A lot of dogs will snap at people telling them off if they are not "guided" into making the right decisions, but just told off, as the world becomes very frightening for them, and as yet they do not understand what is what. Snapping at an owner is not acceptable of course, but good ownership is firm leadership with lots of trust on both sides IMHO :)

I have an incrediblyl mischievous youngster from a herding/guarding breed (BSD) and I never let her get into the habit of chewing because I either gave her stuffed Kongs, or chews, or put her briefly in an area where she could not make mischief for a bit!

It may be a good idea to consider a crate, but do find out carefully how to introduce it to the pup and make it a pleasant den, and if you do get one, dont leave the pup in there toolong.

Hth a bit
Lindsay

Hi Zoebeveridge,

Maybe your puppy is very overwhelmed by all her new surroundings and her new family members. Her senses are probably on overload with all the new scents and sights. Like most babies, she probably misses her mommy.

I had a puppy very recently with the same problem that your experiencing. However, the difference was that he didnt begin growling from stress. He began out of blatant defiance. For example, if i tried to move him from the bed, he growled. Solution? I threw restricted him to his time out area (a spare crate with sheets over it) with no socialization whatsoever (not even eye contact). Being that dogs are social creatues, denying them social contact kills them. Think about it, if you try to leave the house without your dog, chances are he probably freaks and goes berserk right? That's because he doesnt like to be alone.

I don't like to encourage shouting or physical corrections with puppies, especially if you are trying to follow dog pack rules (not wolf pack rules). I have to agree with Lindsay in that wolf pack behavior differs from dog pack behavior. Dog pack theory dictates that an alpha rarely excercises dominance via barking or violence. Rather, beta dogs accept the alpha's position and for the alpha to quarrel with the betas would be to lower his/her rank. Only betas quarrel because they are unsure of their position in the pecking order and will bicker and dispute about it with each other in an effort to determine their status There are actually a seperate list of rules that apply to the domestic dog that were illustrated through actual dog pack study at Yale and UC Berkeley. If you would like to visit a website dedicated to this subject go to http://diamondsintheruff.com/packtheory.html

In my opinion and experience, the best way to teach a dog is a combination of praise, reward, and discipline. Dog does something good...PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE...reward...PRAISE!

Dog chews on shoe? Yell at shoe (not dog), replace shoe with something appropriate.

***A responsible dog owner will have a plethora of chew toys accessible. However, if you have a dominant, agressive, or otherwise stubborn dog on your hands, only allow him/her access to the two toys. One in his crate and one on the floor. Remember, he who controls the resources controls the dog. However, if for some reason you cannot afford a chew toy (in which case you do not belong owning a dog), one can be made from many household objects such as a few old socks tied up into a tight knot.***

Dog growls at owner? Reprimand dog in deep, shameful tone of voice (e.g. HOW DARE YOU!?) and restrict to a "quiet time" area. Keep him there for 5 Min, 10 Min, or as long as the offense calls for. If he begins to yelp and cry, DO NOT allow him out until he has stopped. Don't allow him to "train" (manipulate) you into getting what he wants. Also, try not to use your dog's crate for his time out area though. The goal here is to get him to like it not associate it with where he goes when hes bad. However, being that your puppy is still very young and adjusting, i would keep discipline to a bare minimum until he is at least 12 weeks.

I also believe it's a very good idea to make the dog respond to a command before he gets ANYTHING he wants. This communicates leadership and control to your pup. As a result, he will feel calmer and more secure in strange new places and around strange new objects and people. Additionally, you will also be able to control him easier as well. Dog want out? Sit first. Dog want food? Sit...shake paw. Dog want toy? Roll over. Get the idea? Good. =)

As alpha, you must assume the assertive role. If he ignores or defies you, MAKE him respond. Once you are certain that he has learned a new command and you feel he is engaging selective hearing ( doing what he wants), force him to do so by making him sit, rolling him over, etc. Then repeat the command and if he still doesn't respond independantly, do not give said dog what it wants and ignore him.

Things NOOOOOOTTTTTT to do:

1) NEVER EVER engage in rough housing, tug of war, or any other kind of confrontational play. This not only establishes and fortifies a nasty habit, but it also allows the puppy to evaluate vulnerablities in different people. Confrontational play also helps establish social status in dog packs. This combination of knowledge and play is a recipe for rebellion. Avoid confrontational play until the dog is well over a year and KNOWS his place in the chain of command.

2) Try not to allow the dog on furniture unless said dog has earned the PRIVILEGE to do so. Do not allow him to climb on furniture wihout consent. However, some people like to take it a step further and don't allow dogs to climb on furniture at all.

3) Dont spank or yell out of frustration. The worst way to "teach" a dog anything is through intimidation. The dog will be more worried about getting hit if he does the wrong thing than about the task at hand that you are trying to teach. Besides, it's a puppy. It can't be expected to come into the world and learn all our complex human rules within a matter of weeks.

4)....well.....I think i've made this one long enough. If you want more help you are free and welcome to e-mail me at Ok1900@aol.com

***PS*** Don't get overly concerned with trying to train your puppy. It's a living thing and has emotional needs as well. Establish and build a positive relationship with your dog. Remember, he's now a member of your family member and depends on you for guidance and nurturing. Raising a well-mannered and properly trained dog is one of the most difficult tasks next to raising a child (some people will disagree however lol). Take your time, you will have your moments of victory and pride as well as your moments of failure and frustration. Take the good with the bad and take it in stride. It's all worth it in the long run =) =) =)

Best Regards
Oblivious

As well as a specialised Border Collie book, I would recommend "The Perfect Puppy" by Gwen Bailey. It's brilliant at explaining (very well illustrated too) how to stop problems even starting. I suggest to all my puppy buyers that they get hold of a copy.