So, my vets used to use Duramune as a vaccine.  The second vaccine is recommended to be given at 10 wks.  Nobivac also recommend the 2nd jab is given at 10 wks, and so do several other brands of vaccine.

However, my vets have (for some reason unknown to me and probably due to cost reasons!) decided to use Eurican as a brand.  And Eurican recommends 2nd jab be given at 12 wks!? 

Can anyone tell me why this is?  I hadn't even heard of Eurican as a brand until recently and now 2 of my local vet practices are using this vaccine instead.  It recommends first jab be given at 8 wks (not 6 or 7) and 2nd jab at 12 wks.  I'm very concerned about the effect of this on socialisation of puppies, especially if vets are going to recommend pups don't go out for 2 wks afterwards.

Anyone else have any info on Eurican they can give me or know why vets might be favouring it?!

Here is the link which recommends 12 wks:  http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Merial_Animal_Health_Ltd/Eurican_DHPPi/-31357.html

Thx.

It could be that they're having difficulties getting supplies of their usual brand; it happened with Canigen a few months ago, and many vets had to change to another brand for a while.

Thanks Jean, but it has been this way for a while now and I don't think it's a temporary thing - they seem to have permanently switched.

I just googled Eurican and 12 wks, to find out why, and I found this interesting presentation by Merial, who make Eurican:

http://www.rhonevet.hu/content/File/Trends%20in%20vaccinology%20KTH%202008_EN_honlapra.pdf

To extract the key points of it:  They are saying that maternal antibodies are present up to 16 wks and that 10 wks is too early for the 2nd jab - they believe that 12 wks catches more pups than 10 wks. 

They also recommend a 3rd vaccination at 16 wks, for those few pups who weren't covered at 12 wks (!).

Despite the fact that this presentation goes on to say that 3-yearly jabs are good for most diseases (as Intervet/Nobivac use), the recommendations for Eurican are still 'yearly boosters'.

They poo-poo the arguments about early socialisation promoting early vaccinations at 10 wks and say that this is "dangerous".

A fellow breeder lost her 6 month old pup she had whelped due to Parvo despite being vaccinated at 8 and 10 weeks, it is thought antibodies from Mum knocked out the vacs leaving him vulnerable to infection, she now leaves the pups till 10 and 12 weeks and gets titres done before boosters are due.

My vet told me over 2 yrs ago that vacs were getting done later for the same reason as above.

The longer the dam continues to feed the pups the later the vacs need to be given.

Well I've done 8 and 10 weeks for 15 years and never had a problem and won't be changing. For my breed not be be out and about before 14 weeks would be a disaster!

I just don't understand the fact that...:

Yes, I'm sure there are some pups which fall through the net, as it were, and catch a disease because of maternal antibodies still present at 10 wks.

But, balance that against routinely vaccinating ALL pups at 12 wks and vets advising not to take pup out for 2 wks after that - the effect on ALL pups for socialisation purposes would be hideous.

So ALL suffer, to benefit the very small few who fall victim to maternal antibodies...?  It just doesn't make sense to me and is again vets prioritising physical health over psychological health.

With most breeds (giant breeds can be a problem!) you can still take them out and about to socialise - just not put them on ground which might have been contaminated by a diseased dog or meet dogs which might not be healthy.

I must say if I am not vaccinating any other pups that haven't been homed I too prefer not to vaccinate my own until 10 and 12 weeks, because of maternal antibodies with Mum s whoa re nto separated from their pups.  I do worry that the vaccinations may not take earlier.

It's only in the last few years that final vaccinations have been given earlier, yet dogs were still able to grow into well adjusted individuals in the past.

I am worried not so much about people like yourselves, who I'm sure can properly socialise pups before 2nd jabs, but about your 'average' pet owner who goes to the vet and is told not to take pup out till 2 wks after 2nd jab, and then keeps pup at home until 14 wks... :(

As I said before most dogs were pretty well adjusted in the past.  In fact I feel from what I remember from all the dogs around when I was a kid that they were better when fewer people had cars, everyone walked their dogs from their house to wherever they were allowed to go off lead.

I knew all the local dogs and was used to seeing lots of them walked regularly up and down the street going about their business, sat patiently waiting outside shots etc.

There are loads of dogs where I live now, don't See many of them out and about now and so many are under habituated/socialised, except to certain situations (shows or the park etc) but not to day to day.  Interesting that the street dogs all seem so well adjusted and behaved compared to the many who never go anywhere except by car.

I am often asked if someone can bring a fully vaccinated 12 week old puppy (or even younger) to puppy class. Sometimes they have only been in their new home a matter of days. These poor puppies have not had time to bond with their new owner and can be overwhelmed in the big, wide world. We never used to get puppies out until 16 weeks and in most breeeds, they grew up well adjusted despite this. I'm afraid that I think this "must get them out as young as possible to "socialise" them" is over-rated. Very few breeds need to be swamped with new experiences so early. Let them get used to their own home & family first.

Today I heard of a vet who told a puppy owner that, as they were 4 days late getting the second part of the puppy vaccination done, they would have to start the whole course again. These are pet people and believe every word the vet says. Poor puppy to be so over-vacinated so young but everyone thinks the vets are God.
Don't get me wrong, I vaccinate my dogs regularly, but only lepto annually & the rest every 3 years and both the 14 year olds have problems so it is only lepto for the one who goes in the streams BUT I leave the "annuals" for about 16 months and argue every time that they do not need the whole course again. The vets always humour me and do as I ask.

> BUT I leave the "annuals" for about 16 months and argue every time that they do not need the whole course again. The vets always humour me and do as I ask.

So do I!!!  :-)

And my breed club recommends that pups do not leave home until they are 12 weeks.  I have a toy breed that suckles for a lot longer than some of the larger dogs.  And it is perfectly usual to see a bitch give a last minute comfort suckle on the day that a pup leaves home.  The pup that I have chosen to keep always gets done at 12 weeks (and I don't ask the vet his opinion.)

Having said all this, my pups do go down to the static with me, and have an outdoor playpen, as well as a 5ft paddling pool (in the living room, so very easy to clean out.)  I use the opportunity to socialise them.  I am proud of the fact that people praise the temperament of my pups, so I honestly don't feel mine lose out because they are vaccinated late.

In Finland where I come from pups never get vaccinated before they are 12 weeks old (second at 14 weeks and rabies at 16 or 18 weeks).
I was amazed when I came to UK and realised puppies get vaccinated so early here as I grew up with belief that there is no point vaccinating a pup much earlier due to the antibodies.

Dogs in Finland are no more antisocial than they are here :) so I would not worry too much.
Saying this most vets there say it is ok to take the puppy out on areas where there are not loads of dogs because of the mothers antibodies covering them (many people live in flats so have not even got their own garden) so puppies are not kept 100% at home till they are 16 weeks.
I find it interesting how the advise and attitudes differ in different countries, the vaccination brands used are the same.