morning all and hope someone can help.

pups are 6 days old today and i have just caught tilly with a pup in mouth going under our bed, she has been under the bed a few times on her own (we thought she might nest there).
We have just blocked access off too her so this cant happen again.
My fear is she will find somewhere else.
I thought she was happy in the whelping box, pups feeding nicely all seemed well. (she does dig in her box occasionally).
so, why is she trying to move them???

Only other thing thats different is she had the runs during the night, but we think we know why, we gave her some different chopped meat (pork) last night instead of the usual chicken or beef.
So, i have had little sleep this past week, which is fine, i knew what i signed up for and was just starting to chill a bit and dozing inbetween pups feeds, now, i am paranoid to close my eyes again incase i wake up and shes hidden the pups somewhere :-(

scared now

Sounds like somehing has disturbed her, maybe the bin lorry coming round? It can be something so trivial that you won't, and probably never will, understand why or what. One of my bitches wanted to have her pups on my daughters bed, which we didn't allow, and she ended up having them at the top of the stairs beside the bedroom door - not ideal. I now have a puppy pen surrounding my whelping box, just to stop this sort of thing happening. 

Forgive me if I've missed previous posts, but where is the whelping box situated? Is it covered over and dark and den-like, or uncovered and in a more exposed area? It could be that she doesn't feel that her puppies are safe there; or it could be that she's not feeling well and this is a displacement activity.

hi

shes in my bedroom, in a corner with blanket over 3/4 of the box, its warm and dark, i have not opened the curtains since they were born. I have stayed with her throughout and i and my oh are the only ones to touch the pups if needed.

pups are thriving,very pleased with her mother skills, she was unsettled when first born but vet thought it was a mixture of hormones and being inexperienced (first litter). This settled down. until last night a little unsettled and panting again, and then discovered the runs, seemed to settle after this.

i cant think of anything that could have triggered this, nothing different has happened other than the food choice yesterday, wont be giving anymore.
all fast asleep in whelping box.

Is your temp too hot in the box? 
My bitch was used to spending a lot of time outside in the kennel so when she came into the house to whelp, she hated it as it was too warm.  Then after she had the pups, I was heating the room and she paid me back by digging a hole straight into my sofa and burying all the pups in there.  I came home from a 20min trip to the shop for milk to find my house looking like the artic with all the foam and mum and pups in the middle of my sofa, her with a very contented smile on her face.
I turned the heating off and moved the pups back to the whelping box and mum soon went back to keep them warm.  Before the 'incident', pups were scattering all over the box from being too warm and it was stressing mum out.  Things you learn the hard way!!

thank you

now, heres a thing i have noticed last day or so pups dont sleep together they are spread out in the box (3 pups), and she slept for a while on my bed last night for the first time since whelping (she does sleep on bed prior to having pups).

also vet put her on vet tabs and i have to disguise it in her food, shes a toy breed so have to quarter the tablet. Is it worth me giving her some extra calcium, i have tried to do this nutritionally but she wont take yoghurt, milk etc so have read about tums?? just to giver her a boost, pups feed every hour so wonder if shes getting low stores???? or would you suggest a different supplement?
My oh works for a vit & supplement company and has vit d drops and calcium easy absorbable, very top quality stuff, so thought we could give her some of that, not sure of dose thats all, can i give too much???

sorry for all questions, i have read so much but so tired now i have forgotten everything :-(

oh just thought of something else, shes hardly touching her puppy food (kibble RC) since having her babies, only eats, chicken, beef, ham and eggs, so may be depleting??

A few years ago my girl had a litter and she took them one by one under the bed. When I tried to stop her gaining access she took one off elsewhere! So I let her have them under the bed with her it was warm under there and I made it as comfy as possible for her. She was very happy there as were the pups. It was infact very much like watching the tv programmes with the wolves watching her raise her babies, if someone was around the house you would see her head appear and some nice shiny teeth as if to say come in here and I will have you. (Please note this was a lab who had been visiting hospitals and residential homes since she was 4 months old and was as daft as any lab but was very interesting to see her with her babies)

I actually chose to let her do whatever she wanted and she would let us handle the babies anyhow and then take them back under the bed. She was a brilliant mum BUT as soon as they hit 3 weeks she fed them one day and walked out of the bedroom and that was definately their lot she had had enough. I will add that those babies turned out as any lab would have if mum had been in the box and had been with them longer. I actually found it amazing to watch such a different experience with a bitch and puppies. This girl never took again when mated so never got to find out if the same would have resulted.

If the pups are spread out rather than in a puppy pile then they may be too hot, with the weather outside being warmer then you may need to cool the room during the day.

I had a cat mamy moons ago who wanted to be in the lounge with her kittens and me repeatedly taking them back upstairs would result in her bringing them back down and piling them up against the lounge door which when I opened they would fall in, I gave up and left her to care for the kits where she wanted.

To restrict Mum then a puppy play pen draped with blankets would keep her where you wanted her.

Did she stay on your bed all night? I'd be worried that the pups hadn't been fed and unless her milk supply is stimulated then the supply will dry up.

Not heard of a Mum who wouldn't accept goats milk,cottage cheese or yogurt as extra to her diet, mine won't drink plain water if they can get something else.

Is the whelping box covered and made den like, if nto then it is too exposed for her comfort.

Secondly carrying pups around can be an early sign of Eclampsia.  Is she looking a bit spaced out/wild eyed.

She may need calcium supplementation with something she can absorb like Calo Cal D.

hi and thanks for replies,
she only stayed on my bed for 10-15 minutes at a time then would go back to box, pups feed every 1-2 hours, hence why i am so tried :-)

the box is covered and snug, but i agree it may have been too warm, i have opened windows (oppsite side of room to whelpting box so no draft) but kept the curtains closed to air the room, so see if this helps, they are all in box now, mum is feeding and snoring and i have removed the towels, just vet bed, puppy pad and heat pad in there now. they all seem happy. Funny, just thinking mum more settled like she is now during the day it seems nightime is when she pants and gets bit restless.

I have given her vitamin d drops to aid absorbtion and calcium tablet this morning, freshened her up and checked teats, milk flowing lovely and no hard teats. She has a breakfast of lean cooked chicken and some nutri-cal.

I fear early eclampsia, but no spaced out look or joint issues, no issues with gait and no shaking/trembling, just this moving pups and occasional panting (mainly when feeding), vet did say she may pant during feeds due to her raised hormones and getting excited. She is not excessively thirsty.
maybe i am fretting too much, i have fogotten everything i have read and learnt, my mind goes blank, i am super tired, but looking at them now, very worth it.

should i give the calcium everyday whilst shes lactating???

thank you

They sometimes pant on and off for up to a week.  Not sure about the calcium, I wouldnt be too keen on giving it everyday without a vets say so.  Will she not take icecream or goats milk etc?

oo not thought of ice cream! grand idea thank you, will try :-)